40
   

Why I am not Voting Obama

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:42 am

Obama the Marxist

0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  5  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:42 am
@Thomas,
IMO, this sounds more like apathy than outrage.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  4  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:43 am
@sozobe,
Why do you think it's a protest vote? My third party vote isn't a protest vote -- it's a vote of conscience. I PREFER to vote for someone not from either major party because I think they're both corrupt. Equally corrupt. The only time I ever vote for a major party candidate is if I think I need to vote against his/her opponent. I did that twice in 2000 and 2004. Anyone who says, "Anyone but Obama in 2012" but voted for Bush in 2004 makes me ill. They both represent their parties perfectly well. Edgar no longer connects with the party of his past. I've never connected with either party. It's not a protest vote.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:44 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Full disclosure: I live in New Jersey, a solidly-enough Blue State in federal elections. If I had a vote in November 2012, which I probably won't, I would be looking at third-party candidates myself. When presented with two bad choices, we all have a limit where we stop accepting those choices, stop settling for the lesser evil among them, and start looking for better ones. We're just haggling about where that point is.


I agree. If edgar wants to state that the system no longer works for him then I have to agree. It doesn't work for me either, but then, it never has.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:46 am
@JPB,
We're talking about edgar. I don't have a problem with you doing a conscience vote, particularly when you specify that if you think Obama is in actual danger of losing in IL, you'd change your vote.

An addendum to my last post re: Nader -- and of course there's 2000 and voting Bush in at all. I just had more arguments about it in 2004 (partly because of 2000).
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:46 am

Obama's return to fairness

The long-time basic tenant of Communism was the phrase “From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.” Here, thanks to Wikipedia, you will now see, probably for the first time in your life, just where that phrase came from. It was not, as many believe, contained in Marx’s Communist Manifesto. It did come from Marx, but it was in his “Critique of the Gotha Program.” Here’s the paragraph:

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners:From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Personally, I have no doubt that Barack Obama is a Marxist. I believe that he came to Occidental college after finishing high school in Hawaii dedicated to the idea of fomenting a communist revolution in The United States. Obama is smart enough to know, however, that he can’t use the actual rhetoric of Marx to promote his agenda. Words have to be tweaked to meet the demands of our present political culture. So … at Tuesday night’s State of the Union address (it will be a campaign speech, not a State of the Union speech) Obama will use this phraseology … we’ve already seen it In a campaign video sent to supporters. In that video Obama says: "I'm going to lay out a blueprint for an American economy that's built to last. And most importantly, a return to American values of fairness for all, and responsibility from all."

The long-time basic tenant of Communism was the phrase “From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.” Here, thanks to Wikipedia, you will now see, probably for the first time in your life, just where that phrase came from. It was not, as many believe, contained in Marx’s Communist Manifesto. It did come from Marx, but it was in his “Critique of the Gotha Program.” Here’s the paragraph:

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners:From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Personally, I have no doubt that Barack Obama is a Marxist. I believe that he came to Occidental college after finishing high school in Hawaii dedicated to the idea of fomenting a communist revolution in The United States. Obama is smart enough to know, however, that he can’t use the actual rhetoric of Marx to promote his agenda. Words have to be tweaked to meet the demands of our present political culture. So … at Tuesday night’s State of the Union address (it will be a campaign speech, not a State of the Union speech) Obama will use this phraseology … we’ve already seen it In a campaign video sent to supporters. In that video Obama says: "I'm going to lay out a blueprint for an American economy that's built to last. And most importantly, a return to American values of fairness for all, and responsibility from all."

There you have it!

“Responsibility from all” = “From each according to their ability.”

“Fairness for all” = “To each according to their needs.”


In uttering that “responsibility from all” line Obama is principally talking about his demands that the evil rich pay more taxes. Never mind that the disgusting top 1% of income earners pull down about 17% of all income, but pay around 39% of all income taxes. This is about class warfare, not accuracy, and Obama knows his pals in the elite media aren’t going to blow the whistle on this.

Tomorrow night Barack Obama will officially kick off his reelection campaign. He has already given us a sneak peak of his State of the Union address in that video I referenced. I doubt that he will highlight the many failures of his presidency – 1.9 million fewer Americans working, gas prices doubling, debt equal to our GDP. Instead he will focus on our apparent need to redistribute the wealth in the name of “fairness.”

The ObamaMedia reports that Obama will focus on “economic fairness” and “a return to American values.” That’s laughable. What does Barack Obama know about American values? He wasn’t even really raised an American. He spent most of his childhood in Hawaii and Indonesia. His college days were spent in elite universities. Obama knows very little of American values, of what makes this country great – Freedom, liberty, individualism, personal responsibility, property rights and our free market system, just to name a few.

You do know that the broad use of the words “fair” and “fairness” come from focus groups, don’t you? Who doesn’t know that Americans believe in fairness? All you have to do is take that word and turn it against your opponent. You’re fair, they are not. Simple as that. Mindlessly simple, but we’re talking American voters here – voters who can’t even tell you the name of the congressman representing them in Washington.

In that same video Caesar Obammus said, “We can go in two directions. One is towards less opportunity and less fairness. Or we can fight for where I think we need to go: building an economy that works for everyone, not just a wealthy few. On Tuesday night, I’m going to talk about how we’ll get there.” His State of the Union speech is expected to be the “bookend” to the class warfare speech he made in Osawatomie, Kansas. That’s the one where he mentioned “fair” 15 times, but barely a word about freedom or liberty.

Here’s a little more from Ceasar Obammus, who recently commented on Republican criticism of his redistributive ways …

“I’ve been hearing a lot of these Republicans talking about, oh, that’s class warfare, and he just wants to redistribute, and doesn’t believe in work, and he’s trying to create an entitlement society, and this and that and the other. Let me be absolutely clear, I should pay more taxes, and folks in my income bracket should pay more taxes, and certainly folks who are making billions of dollars should pay more taxes, not because I want to take their money and just give it to somebody else. It’s because we have basic investments and basic functions that must be carried out in this 21st century if we are going to be able to compete.”

The United States already has the most progressive tax system among developed nations. The richest among us are paying the highest effective tax rates. Our problem is not taxes. Our problem is not that our government needs more money. Our problem is not that rich people aren’t paying enough money. Our problem is that Barack Obama has increased our spending and our debt at a record pace! He has now racked up more debt than George Washington through Bill Clinton COMBINED! He has increased spending by over 20%. And yet he claims that our problem is that rich people aren’t paying enough in taxes? Unbelievable.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:47 am
@JPB,
There's saying the system no longer works (I agree it has major problems) and then there's what you do about that.

I think engineer put that part really well. Failing to vote -- again, in an election that is not preordained due to demographics -- actually backfires.
Thomas
 
  6  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:50 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
re: the third party thing: I'm not against people working to build a more liberal party, IF, they are actually DOING something to do that. Just stating that you won't vote for the guy in office who is kinda liberal, and then doing nothing, doesn't forward anything new in this country, and only serves to advance the cause of Conservatism.

That would be true in European countries, where voter turnout is typically around 80% and the outcome turns on swinging voters around the middle of the spectrum. But it's untrue in the United States, where voter turnout is around 50%, and mobilizing the base matters as much to a party's prospects as swinging the other party's voters. When Edgar says, "I'm a liberal and I'll stay home or vote socialist", he has the same impact on the Democratic party as Phoenix does when she says,"I'm a libertarian and I can go Democratic or Republican". Phoenix got courted when she started threads about her choice. Edgar gets treated like a disobedient schoolboy. There is no rational justification for such a difference in treatment.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:52 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
That wasn't abstract, that was real, and had real effects on the country and the world.

Fair enough if you blame Nader voters in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. But don't blame Nader voters in Texas or Massachusetts.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:52 am
@Thomas,
That's why I keep explicitly making that distinction.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 10:52 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



“Responsibility from all” = “From each according to their ability.”

“Fairness for all” = “To each according to their needs.”



~ Obama the Marxist
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:00 am
@sozobe,
So you're fine with what Edgar does? (You didn't say which posts you were thumbing up, so I assumed it was the posts that disagreed with Edgar. Sorry if that assumption was wrong.)
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:03 am
@sozobe,
America Elects is what folks are doing about it. David Walker isn't anybody's fool. There will be a candidate named by June and that candidate will be on every ballot. As I said earlier, upwards of 60% of registered voters have indicated they'd vote for an alternate (non-major party) candidate this year if that candidate stood a chance of shaking things up. Large numbers of folks are looking to shake things up. Choosing between the lesser of two evils is no longer the only option.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:06 am
@JPB,
I'm interested but unconvinced.

If it's a viable third-party candidate, yes.

If it's not viable, it's the same old thing.

Working to make it viable makes sense and I support that.

I don't see a third-party candidate being viable this year.

(That's completely aside from whether I think Obama is the lesser of two evils -- I don't. I'm happy to vote for him rather than merely against the Republican nominee.)
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:06 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

America Elects is what folks are doing about it. David Walker isn't anybody's fool. There will be a candidate named by June and that candidate will be on every ballot. As I said earlier, upwards of 60% of registered voters have indicated they'd vote for an alternate (non-mayor party) candidate this year if that candidate stood a chance of shaking things up. Large numbers of folks are looking to shake things up. Choosing between the lesser of two evils is no longer the only option.


I think you are fooling yourself badly with this. America Elect doesn't have a shot in hell of winning a single state - they have less nation-wide support than the Green parties do!

The fact that their advice and polling comes from Doug Schoen should tip you off as to the quality of the organization in question.

Cycloptichorn
revelette
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:09 am
(That's completely aside from whether I think Obama is the lesser of two evils -- I'm happy to vote for him rather than merely against the Republican nominee.)

agreed
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:09 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I think it all depends on who they convince to run. There's already a "regular" Republican running on the Libertarian ticket because the R's wouldn't give him the time of day. If a "regular" Dem or even a blue dog Dem ends up on the AE ticket then I think it's an open game.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:10 am
@Thomas,
I'm minimally OK with edgar choosing not to vote in Texas, where his vote likely won't matter much anyway (though I take Cycloptichorn's point there).

I don't agree with his statement that he'd do the same even in a state where his vote would have more of an effect on the final results, and I don't agree with a chunk of his reasoning.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:10 am
But I would ask you both if you consider yourselves Democrats? If yes, then we aren't talking about folks who connect with their party.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2012 11:13 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I think it all depends on who they convince to run. There's already a "regular" Republican running on the Libertarian ticket because the R's wouldn't give him the time of day. If a "regular" Dem or even a blue dog Dem ends up on the AE ticket then I think it's an open game.


I would be shocked if the Libertarian candidate got even 5% in any state.

You want a Blue Dog dem? Are you nuts? There is no more unpopular political position in the country than to be a somewhat-Conservative Democrat, which is what the Blue Dogs are. You may not have noticed but in 201o they were absolutely decimated in the mid-term elections. Who exactly do you think is waiting to vote for these people??

Suffice it to say I'll believe it when I see it; in large part b/c the majority of people who are looking for a third option aren't willing to do any actual work to get that option elected.

Cycloptichorn
 

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