Why I am not Voting Obama

@ehBeth,

Quote:

I think he should get credit for this slight improvement for the U.S. Things were getting pretty unpleasant on the international front for the U.S., and I do think Mr. Obama has turned that around a bit. Still a way to go though.

To be fair I think the Republican primaries so far have also engendered quite a bit of sympathy for the US (certainly in Australia and England)

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

What will happen to the US? We poor sots are suffering so!

let me know when you meet a neighbour who speaks like that

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@panzade,

The really really puzzling thing, Pan, [especially after looking at your graph in your next post] is how the overall feeling is that Obama has blown a ton of money.

I think that conservatives and Repubs lie their asses off [not all of them] and they do it steadily, and relentlessly, until the meme is established. Even when it's outlandish nonsense, somnething that would come from the motu of a Gob, a Finn, or a H2oMan.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I am not going down the list and ticking off this that and the other, partly because it is easy to confuse rhetoric with action and also because it is not always black and white. To be for something, but take minimal to no action, or to concede bits of it away with little to no reciprical action is as good as to be against the things one purports to be supporting.

Besides what's obviously troublesome about comparing Obama with "a concept", its baffling to me that you seem to completely disregard that the measure of what he can practically do is limited by the amount of cooperation he is able to cajole, bargain or force. And it is true for anyone with eyes that this particular president has been met with a kind of rabid obstructionism I've not seen before.

Its puzzling and sad to me that you think its a reasonable choice of course to sit it out, wait for more to join you on the sidelines, and hope that this abstaining group will "scare" the existing politicians toward ruling in a way more acceptable to you.

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@snood,

It is the Republican plan to obstruct every move Obama makes, no matter what it costs the nation. That is plain and obvious. Plus, they clutter the dialog with birther and other irelevant chatter. Remove that from the equation and we still have a president who drags his feet when supposedly pushing an agenda.

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@edgarblythe,

but to vote republican is to sign off on their behavior...

I cannot do it.

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@Rockhead,

I vowed about 20 or more years ago to never vote Republican, no matter what.

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@ehBeth,

That's what Obama said as an excuse to not prosecute those who had tortured. That's basically the line that Frank Apisa gave recently. That's what CI sometimes says to describe the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan instead of noting that it's those people who have really suffered.

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@ehBeth,

It's an interesting question on the slide left or right of the Democratic party. I think in many ways you're correct. I'd say that largely in the last 30 years, they went pretty weak in the spine standing up for organized labor. Only recently has a national dialogue on equity and upward mobility returned to the mainstream. In other ways, on many social and civil rights issues, I think the party has moved further left.

There's also a matter of generations here. I think as soon as younger (not young per se, but younger) generations of democratic representitives come into office, you'll see them to be greater advocates for liberal causes.

The national culture is a large part of this as well. I think some of the things older conservatives and liberals find romantic or noble about their parties don't readily connect with Gen X and Millennials.

A
R
T

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@JTT,

Really? Frank and c.i. referred to themselves as poor sots?

I'd love to see those quotes.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

There's also a matter of generations here. I think as soon as younger (not young per se, but younger) generations of democratic representitives come into office, you'll see them to be greater advocates for liberal causes.

this could definitely be a piece of it. American politicians tend to older than those we see in Canada. In our last federal election, several of the NDP candidates elected in Quebec were in their early years of university.

I look at a lot of candidates in the U.S. and wonder why such old knackers are even running for election. Doesn't mean I think all 'mature' candidates are bad by definition, but I do think the U. S. would benefit by having less jaded people at the top.

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@ehBeth,

the older people are the ones with enough cash to consider running...

it costs a lot of money to get elected, now that corporations are people too.

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@Rockhead,

well our campaigns only go a coupla months from beginning to end - and even then big $$$ don't really matter that much - campaigns are really local - there is comparatively little done on a national level - there's no point in it

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@Rockhead,

Yeah, that's one of the basic problems in the US that you don't have in many other countries. It takes really big bucks to run a campaign in this country. If you want to have even a remote chance of being elected, I mean. The only way a younger person with no wealth of his/her own can hope to compete for a major office is to get the unconditional backing of the party of their choice. And then, of course, they're indebted to the party and its coffers once he's in. His or her actual ability to get anything done will be severely limited by the demands of the party machinery.

I truly believe that to some extent this is what happened to Obama. He came out of nowhere, a first-term US Senator, obviously picked by his party to be its standard-bearer. They had him as a keynote speaker at their national convention in Boston, when nobody had yet heard of him. Why give a new kid on the block such a key job in the spotlight? Because he was already being groomed as the next presidential candidate. Now that he's in, I really believe that a lot of the bad decisions he makes are the result of toeing the party line. He dare not step out of line for fear of losing his party's support for re-election.

Money. It's all about money. Not in the sense of garnering individual wealth but in that Rockhead says -- you can't get elected without a bundle of it.

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@ehBeth,

You just made me wonder something. Since so few politician are my age, I can't look at them and say, "wow, we grew up at the same time in the same world." As a general question, the politicians that are your peers, in what ways if any do you feel you relate to them?

Just curious. I think it will be a major life experience for me to confront my own generation as they begin to move into major elected offices.

A
R
T

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@failures art,

Interesting question. I'm just over 50 - and I'm older than a lot of politicians at the provincial and federal level now.

I do know that for the ones that are about my age, I feel very comfortable with challenging them on positions that I think don't make sense - given our common history.

I live in a riding that is considered important federally and gets a fair bit of attention during provincial elections as well - the candidates show up at subway stops and at malls regularly, so it's pretty easy to have direct access to them for questions and comments - I guess I hadn't realized how comfortable I am in talking to them when they show up - I look forward to challenging them - asking them how they got to a particular position given X happened 10/20/30 years earlier.

I probably have a bit of an advantage over some voters, as the hamburgboys took me to political meetings very early - mrs. hamburgboy took me out canvassing for the Committee for an Independent Canada when I was 10 or 11. They also didn't mind if instead of going out to play, I hung out with a neighbourhood dad to watch party conventions when I was in grade 5 or 6. Not all parents were/are as understanding of a preteens real interest in the political process.

Lots of people just take flyers and keep walking past the candidates - I've always liked to engage them.

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@ehBeth,

On the age thing, so far as the House is concerned, they spend the first six months listening. The next six months involve constituant care. The third six months, they are sometimes allowed to speak. Not often, but sometimes. The last six months is spent campaigning. They are not usually effective for the first system.

It's a poor system, but that's why the congresspeople you recognize are usually old geezers. Presidents can be as young as they want, so long as they are over 35 years old. They can do about as much when elected as at the end of their final term.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

It is the Republican plan to obstruct every move Obama makes, no matter what it costs the nation. That is plain and obvious. Plus, they clutter the dialog with birther and other irelevant chatter. Remove that from the equation and we still have a president who drags his feet when supposedly pushing an agenda.

It has yet to be removed from the equation so you have nothing to measure him with.

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@Butrflynet,

Butrflynet wrote:

Quote:
It is the Republican plan to obstruct every move Obama makes, no matter what it costs the nation. That is plain and obvious. Plus, they clutter the dialog with birther and other irelevant chatter. Remove that from the equation and we still have a president who drags his feet when supposedly pushing an agenda.

It has yet to be removed from the equation so you have nothing to measure him with.

I was going to say that. But it feels like Ed has made a decision that is impervious to reason.

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Quote:

Why I am not Voting Obama

There are a host of excellent reasons that should prevent all but the dumbest of the masses from voting Obama this fall.

No more years - One term, that's all.

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Why I am not Voting Obama

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