Why I am not Voting Obama

@gungasnake,

fairly tight and in reasonably good shape.

crushed tightly into a box they are worth $220 a ton right now...

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

you know that a "normal bankruptcy" would have strewn the subs and the divisions to the wind.
It would NEVER have reassembled as it has.
If we wind up as a country that has to rely upon the rest of the world to make our ****, we would then be in big trouble as a nation.

I don't believe this is true. The bankrupcy process is designed to maximize the residual value of the company and I cannot conceive of how any reasonable Judicial process could conclude that breaking the company up would improve its potential future earnings. Most of our major airlines have been in and out of bankrupcy at least once and none of them were broken up - though in every case their competitors wished to see that happen. There are also anti trust, anti monopoly considerations that bear on the issue that alone would have prevented a braakup. GM would have been in and out of bankrupcy at least as quickly as the process the administration took. The only difference is that the UAW wouldn't have gotten such a sweet deal and no taxpayer money would have been put at risk. - and saving the UAW was clearly the administration's main goal in the process

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@georgeob1,

The difference is that the auto industry has many sub-contractors to make different parts of the whole. If you shut down any auto company in the US, it shuts down not only the sales rooms, but also the other businesses that rely on financing cars and leases. I can't imagine shutting down all the auto malls in the US where they carry US-brand made cars.

1 Reply

You guys haven't yet said anything about the Obunga admin selectively shutting down particular dealerships. No comment on that??

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

The difference is that the auto industry has many sub-contractors to make different parts of the whole. If you shut down any auto company in the US, it shuts down not only the sales rooms, but also the other businesses that rely on financing cars and leases. I can't imagine shutting down all the auto malls in the US where they carry US-brand made cars.

What the hell does this have to do with the restructuring of GM's debt? The company would have emerged the same from a normal bankrupcy as it did from the Administrations' contrived bailout of the union that contributed so much to the company's failure. You are grasping at straws.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Selectively as opposed to what? Randomly?

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@georgeob1,

Airlines don't manufacture anything so it's not a fair comparison.
The majority of airlines that have gone into bankruptcy in the last 30 years no longer exist.

Quote:

The only difference is that the UAW wouldn't have gotten such a sweet deal and no taxpayer money would have been put at risk.

Sending the car companies into bankruptcy WOULD have cost taxpayer money. The underfunded retirement would have been forced onto the taxpayers costing us billions.

1 Reply

@parados,

No, the retirement benefits of those in the plan would have been restructured and reduced.

1 Reply

It's a small mind after all that would vote for Obama.

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Six in 10 Voters Would Be OK With Obama-Romney Matchup

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/clurxelafksiuqnnxhy8yw.gif

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/kpxd9a32duwckkk7bgzpgw.gif

Quote:

Implications

Even in the midst of a volatile race for the GOP nomination, the significant majority of Republicans would be satisfied with an Obama-Romney choice in the general election, and would end up voting for Romney if these two were the nominees. It is likely that more Republicans would do so if Romney is the GOP nominee and after the current intraparty battles come to an end.

There still appears to be room for a third-party candidate, given that 15% of voters say they would vote for someone other than Romney or Obama, and another 7% say they would not vote at all if that were the choice presented to voters. Additionally, less than half of independents say they would be satisfied if the race is Obama versus Romney. Still, about 6 in 10 independents say they would -- in some instances, apparently begrudgingly -- vote for one of these two candidates if they are on the ballot.

So it is looks like it is going to come to a battle for the less hardened independents.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

GM would have been in and out of bankrupcy at least as quickly as the process the administration took.

Oh, really? And pray tell, who were the buyers going to be? Do you not remember the liquidity trap and lack of access to bridge financing that we were experiencing at the time?

The gov't was already billions deep to GM also, thanks to loans given during the early party of 2008 by the Bush admin. That money would have vanished...

Cycloptichorn

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@revelette,

Romney can defeat Obama and 6 out of 10 voters are good with that.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

doubtful

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Maybe you should tell the PBGC they don't exist

http://www.pbgc.gov/

1 Reply

@parados,

There's an upper limit to annual pensions paid out by that agency and the limit holds no matter what the prior promised pension(s) might have been. Even so that particular agency is headed for bankruptcy itself - as you would know if you looked up the actuarial funding deficit calculation by the auditors.

2 Replies

@panzade,

panzade wrote:

I don't think the UAW killed the Saturn. It was more like GM killed it.
...........

The union killed GM.

The UAW and other unions have brought down once-illustrious names, from International Harvester to the port of New York. Worse yet, Obama's tenuous grasp of economic advice is limited to GM-type "rescues" based on an economic doctrine straight out of "Friday the 13th"!
http://www.economist.com/node/21543160

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20120121_LDP001_0.jpg

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

You compared the bankruptcy of the airlines to the auto industry; just pointing out how wrong you are. You're comparing apples and oranges.

As somebody has already pointed out why the airlines have been in financial trouble, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that flying airplanes isn't the same as manufacturing cars. There's a huge difference between Boeing and the rail industry.

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@High Seas,

Almost all pensions are underfunded; even CALPERS, the largest pension in the country is underfunded.

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@High Seas,

Quote:

The union killed GM.

Last time I looked GM was the #1 auto maker in the world. "News of its death are greatly exaggerated" to paraphrase Mark Twain.

How did GM lose 38 billion while selling 9.4 million cars in 2007? I'm sure the UAW had something to do with it. But not all of it.

Kudos on bringing The Economist article to our attention. However, the US government can hardly be practicing state capitalism. They're trying to sell AIG and GM shares they inherited during the bail-out but the weak stock market won't let them.

0 Replies

@revelette,

probable

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Why I am not Voting Obama

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