Why I am not Voting Obama

I didn't really get into Obama's following Bush's military and related issues virtually unaltered.

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Obama is the Drone president... I bet he had this picture above his bed as a kid.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/494589-2/securedownload9

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@H2O MAN,

It's more like your drone brain; way off target.

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Wow, that one flew right over Ci's bald head Laughing

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

failures art wrote:
I take a much simpler analysis: The people of Vermont wanted Bernie Sanders to represent them, and it isn't about the Democrats--it's about the people of Vermont.

Sure, but an ongoing theme in this thread is that Edgar shouldn't just vote for whom he wants when who he wants stands left of the Democrats. The argument is that such a vote can only Naderize the election for the benefit of Republicans. Sanders proves that this argument isn't generally true for Senators. And it's a reason to think that it also isn't generally true for presidents.

I'm not concerned with an ongoing theme in the thread. I don't believe edgar owes the democrats anything. So when I say that if he finds a better candidate to vote for them, I mean it.

I say you vote for the candidate the represents you best. No candidate will ever be perfect, so don't' try to manipulate candidates into your ideal position by threatening to vote for people you don't actually want.

Edgar seems interested in the America chooses candidate, but wants to go left of Obama. I can't see how this is a reasonable pursuit given the format. Such a process, if legitimate can only produce a centrist candidate to the right of Obama. Would he vote for them?

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@Questioner,

Quote:

And meanwhile, we get 4 years of a loud-mouthed adulterer parading as an American values man or 4 years of a bland hairpiece that has lived the 1% lifestyle so long that he thinks paying 15% on his income taxes is perfectly reasonable and why should the poor and middle class that get to pay 30%+ get pissed off at him?

I'm all for taking a stand. However if your 'stand' is to shoot the only semi-progressive party in the foot and then tell it to do better to beat the conservative bastards on the other side of the aisle then you're kind of just setting yourself and the country up for fail.

Allow me an AMEN here.

Anyone can (and should) vote for whomever he/she chooses, but it is reasonable to ask all of those people to consider the consequences of doing so.

I don't have the problem. I am voting for Obama...and I am happy being able to do so. I think he has done as good a job as anyone could have done considering the toxic political climate in which he was working.

Some people intend to vote for him as "the lesser of two evils."

Some intend to vote for a third party...or stay home and withhold their vote.

Anyone taking that last stance MAY be helping put the Republican nominee into the Oval Office...and it is reasonable to ask people considering the tactic to consider that result.

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@failures art,

How can anyone go left of Mr. Marxist Obama?

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@Frank Apisa,

I no longer care if my vote would help put a Republican in the White House. That is, after all, a consequence the Democrats have to consider, when they act like a lesser Republican party.

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@H2O MAN,

waterboy is again lacking oxygen, and makes stupid, childish, statements about Obama.

From Answers.com:

Quote:

Everything that he does helps the fat cat corporations. Now the arms deal helps the defense industry, the health care bill helps the insurance industry, car companies, investment brokers, giving more money to banks that they will not make available to you, etc. etc. Shouldn't LEFT WING people be upset with Obama?

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@H2O MAN,

the sanity clause
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2khYJZKwA&feature=related

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Here is a slightly revised version of a post I made today in another forum where I participate. It was directed at a couple of individuals talking about withholding their votes from Obama...and it applies here.

If the far-left liberals of this country would finally come to grips with reality…with what can and cannot be done in the current toxic political environment…maybe they could at least slow the downward plunge the liberal brand is taking.

Conservative candidates continue to battle among themselves about who is the most conservative; who has been the true conservative for the longest time; and who will govern from the most conservative perspective. Conservative candidates proudly proclaim their conservatism.

Liberal candidates don’t even mention the word “liberal”—they shrink from it because it has become the kiss of death in our society!

American voters who call themselves staunch conservatives do anything and everything in their power to enable conservatives and ridicule liberals. Their intent is to defeat liberals and liberalism no matter what.

Voters who call themselves staunch liberals often do as much as possible to find fault with anyone who is not insane…who is not willing to alienate him/herself from the vast majority of the American public and pursue far-left liberal policies that are inherently unattainable at this time. Voters who call themselves staunch liberals piss on opportunities to further progressive initiatives in an incremental and pragmatic way…and seem intent on helping their most vocal political enemies. Many seem to be living in a world of fantasy…and often do as much to tarnish the liberal/progressive brand as ideological conservatives.

I will happily vote for Barack Obama’s re-election. I am pessimistic about his chances for re-election because of this unfortunate, shortsighted tendency of his base. I suspect we will all find out if the brilliant liberal plan of abandoning Obama will lead to a better, fairer, more decent climate for America when that dazzling strategy results in someone of Newt Gingrich’s ilk gaining the Oval Office.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

Edgar seems interested in the America chooses candidate, but wants to go left of Obama. I can't see how this is a reasonable pursuit given the format.

But it is a reasonable pursuit by the standard you set earlier in your post. Edgar's political views are to the left of Obama's, so he's voting for any candidates that might represent them. If no such candidates present themselves in his district, he's not voting. Sounds perfectly reasonable and consequent to me.

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Why I am not Voting Obama
because i'm canadian

if i were an american, it's hard to say, if i was raised one i might vote for a president, but having been raised a canadian i don't know if i could vote for one person to lead the country, when i vote , i vote for the person who's going to represent me in my riding, i rarely vote with any regard to the party leader, in fact a lot of the ridings around me have been well represented and got great results from politicians whose party is not in power

i'd certainly vote for a governor or congressman, but one man to lead the whole thing, i doubt it

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@djjd62,

One man really doesn't lead the "whole thing." That's the reason why we have a congress and the supreme court.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

failures art wrote:
Edgar seems interested in the America chooses candidate, but wants to go left of Obama. I can't see how this is a reasonable pursuit given the format.

But it is a reasonable pursuit by the standard you set earlier in your post. Edgar's political views are to the left of Obama's, so he's voting for any candidates that might represent them. If no such candidates present themselves in his district, he's not voting. Sounds perfectly reasonable and consequent to me.

So if I can't vote for Elvis Presley, then I should stay home? We're approaching the point where the conversation has to move from "who represents me?" to "since nobody represents me, I guess I have to run for office."

I don't see how abstinence votes are held up as noble. You're not casting a vote that says this person is perfect, you're only able evaluate who available is the best fit to represent you.

It's cold out. I offer you two jackets. One is red, and the other is blue. You say you'd like a deeper blue jacket. Sorry, this is all I have. You ask why don't I have any deeper blue jackets. I say that I have only two coats and these are the colors I have. You say, look at that life vest you have there! It's a really nice shade of deep blue. You put it on, we go outside, you complain about the cold, or worse, just go out with no coat.

By this logic, reasonable is wearing a navy life vest in the cold complaining that the blue jacket offered to you wasn't blue enough. Reasonable is thinking that you're teaching me a lesson on what colors of coats to have in the future.

I'm typically unsympathetic about objections originating from individuals who voluntarily remove themselves from the process.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

So if I can't vote for Elvis Presley, then I should stay home?

If you're not willing to settle for any candidate other than Elvis Presley, yes.

failures art wrote:

We're approaching the point where the conversation has to move from "who represents me?" to "since nobody represents me, I guess I have to run for office."

Through what compulsion must it move at all?

failures art wrote:

I don't see how abstinence votes are held up as noble. You're not casting a vote that says this person is perfect, you're only able evaluate who available is the best fit to represent you.

Strawman.While some of us, including me, maintain that nonvoting is a viable option, nobody says nonvoters are perfect. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because you don't care about the themes actually brought up in this thread. Smile

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@cicerone imposter,

i get that, but in canada, unless i live in the riding where the party leader is running (usually 4-5 ridings out of 308) i'm not voting for a leader i'm voting for a representative, which is why i said in the us i'd definitely vote for a gov or congressman, but i'd find it hard to vote for a president (perhaps if the field was larger, 3 or 4 folks instead of two)

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@djjd62,

Actually, dj, it's under the Westminster system of government, such as you have in Canada, that there is "one man to lead the whole thing." The Prime Minister has far more power than the US President because he has not only executive powers but some legislative powers as well. The President has no powers to legislate at all.

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@Lustig Andrei,

The Prime Minister, and his government, can be brought down in one day with any one vote.

He's got a lot of power, but no guarantee that he'll be in that job from day to day. There is no four-year job guarantee.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

I don't see how abstinence votes are held up as noble.

where are you and cyclo pulling these references to "noble" and "honour/honourable"? it's as bizarre as Finn and georgeob using religious references when referring to supporters of Mr. Obama.

Most references to voters choosing to do something other than vote for Mr. Obama use terms like reasonable or options.

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Why I am not Voting Obama

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