15
   

Italian Cruise Ship Disaster

 
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 10:07 am
@firefly,
Well that was the second report - initially he did not say that ---- called saving my a$$.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 10:10 am
Quote:
By msnbc.com and news services
Updated at 10:05 a.m. ET: The Costa Concordia took a nearly identical route past Giglio Island in August to the one Friday that led to the sinking of the ship, NBC News has learned.

Adam Smallman, editor of shipping magazine Lloyd’s List, said the route taken in August, based on satellite tracking, was “authorized by the company and the coast guard.”

"Our assessment of the route this vessel took (in August) is it must have come perilously close, and I mean possibly within touching distance of the rock that it hit this time ... which the company is saying wholly unauthorized in terms of its proximity to the island," Smallman said.
http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/18/10179794-concordia-reportedly-took-ill-fated-route-before

So, was the issue addressed last August?

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 10:54 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
Yes - I was listening to that myself last night.
Love the coast guard ordering him (as they should)...he still didn't comply - wonder what
captian Stubbing would have done?
Of course he shud have taken proper care
of his passengers, ship n crew, but I can 't help but wonder
whether that coast guard had jurisdiction or not
.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 11:05 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
Not all captains are like that though - everyone forget about the airline captain
with the plane that went down in NY - not only did he perform an amazing water landing,
he stayed on the plane and ensured all got off before leaving himself.
That 's true, Linkat, but still its a good idea
to not expect much from human nature; that will avoid disappointment.

An example comes to mind of a friend in Florida who consulted my opinion
after her new husband absconded with millions of dollars from her (their joint) bank account
and with her daughter, who then threatened her mother's life for interfering.





David
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 11:10 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I don't think we should expect less so we won't be disappointed. Disappointment is a part of life. I expect someone responsible for that many lives to do their best to see that those lives are given every chance of survival - you don't want the responsibility - don't take the job.

If we lower the bar - we lower our own standards...it seems to lead to a pretty dismal way of life.

I won't quit expecting the best from folks.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 11:11 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I know that the US Coast Guard is to enforce all laws or to assist in enforing all laws on, under and over the high seas and waters subject to the jurisdiction of the US. I'd imagine the Italian Coast Guard has similar jurisdiction.

Now if the law is that a captain is to remain with his ship and be the last disembark if an abandon ship order is given then the Coast Guard is completely within its jurisdiction. Now if the reports are correct and it seems one of the charges against the captain is just that "abandoning ship with passengers aboard" it seems that the coast guard is within its jurisdiction to demand he return to his ship as they are enforcing the law on the seas.

0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 11:12 am
@mismi,
Yeah - a reasonable person with that sort of thought then would not travel any where then unless they were in control -
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 12:00 pm
@mismi,
From CNN.com:
Quote:
Although U.S. law doesn't single out abandoning ship as a crime, it's a longtime maritime tradition that the captain be the last one off a sinking ship, according to maritime law professor Craig Allen, visiting professor of law at Yale University Law School and the U.S. Coast Guard Academy.
"If you're going to be master of a ship, your responsibility is first to your passengers, second to your crew, then you look after yourself," said Allen, a Coast Guard veteran. "It's shameless and dishonorable [for the captain] to take himself out of the mix like that."
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 12:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It not only the captain as the other bridge officers had a responsibility not to abandon the passengers and crews to their fate independent of the captain actions.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 12:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The captain did not abadone his ship -- he says he by mistake fell into one of the lifeboats.......
If you falll in - you can crawl out.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 12:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
But this is Italian law wonder if it is different or not - according to the news reports they are charging him with abandoning ship.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 12:31 pm
@saab,
That was afterwards - originally he did not say that - I wonder why - perhaps because he was charged with the crime...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 12:53 pm
The most interesting thing to me is that the ship was 2.5 miles off course and yet apparently the company knew nothing about this joy ride. In an age where many truckers have a 24/7 video link to the company as well as 24/7 computer monitoring of the location and speed this is mind boggling.

The second most interesting thing is that this crew was so poorly up to the job of dealing with accidents, again pointing to problems with the company procedures.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 01:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

From CNN.com:
Quote:
Although U.S. law doesn't single out abandoning ship as a crime, it's a longtime maritime tradition that the captain be the last one off a sinking ship, according to maritime law professor Craig Allen, visiting professor of law at Yale University Law School and the U.S. Coast Guard Academy.
"If you're going to be master of a ship, your responsibility is first to your passengers, second to your crew, then you look after yourself," said Allen, a Coast Guard veteran. "It's shameless and dishonorable [for the captain] to take himself out of the mix like that."



According to reports it is a crime in Italian law, the law that this captain was operating under....what American law has to say about the act is somewhat besides the point.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  3  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 01:25 pm
The original reports of his arrest said plainl that the captain was being charged with, among other things, negligent (involntary) manslaghter in the deaths aboard. In other words, it had been his responsibility to try and save the lives of all passangers aboard. Why wouldn't it be within the Coast Guard's jurisdiction to order the master of a ship back on board when that ship's passengers are in mortal danger?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 01:30 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Why wouldn't it be within the Coast Guard's jurisdiction to order the master of a ship back on board when that ship's passengers are in mortal danger?


It is, however once it was clear that this captain was not doing his duty the CG should have airlifted to the ship someone who was able to take charge of the operation.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 01:59 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
The possible manslaughter charge might also relate to his going off course and actually causing the accident, the delay in giving the evacuation order, and his delay in sending out a distress call--all of which would have contributed to the deaths.

I'm not sure there are any laws about a Captain abandoning a ship, the Captain is not obligated to commit suicide and go down with a sinking ship. It mainly seems to be considered a tradition, or an ideal image of bravery and dedication, but it is regarded as a dishonorable act for the Captain to try to save himself while many others are still on-board. This Captain claims he was thrown into the water, either when the ship tilted, or when he tripped over a lifeboat.

But he is expected to remain in charge and organize and assist the passengers and crew in evacuating the vessel. This Captain claims he was supervising the action from his remote location, but the conversation with the Coast Guard officer showed that the Captain really didn't know what was going on aboard the ship, which was why he was ordered back.

We have to wait and see what he will actually be charged with.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 02:15 pm
@firefly,
This is the wording from various news reports - he has not been officially charged with anything, but may have these charges - one of which is abandoning a ship when passengers remain onboard. Assuming these reports are correct - then there must be something within Italian law in regard to not abandoning a ship - it does not say he must sink with the ship - but cannot abandon while other passengers are onboard.


"Meanwhile, Captain Francesco Schettino has been arrested and there are reports he may face multiple charges, including manslaughter, shipwreck and a charge of abandoning a ship when passengers remain onboard. "

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/318071#ixzz1jqJGdPSC
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 02:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
captain was not doing his duty the CG should have airlifted to the ship someone who was able to take charge of the operation.


Once more where was the rest of the bridge officers as I see it there should had been no need to airlifted anyone else as the first officer should had taken charge then the second and then the third officer.............

firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2012 02:23 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
Assuming these reports are correct - then there must be something within Italian law in regard to not abandoning a ship - it does not say he must sink with the ship - but cannot abandon while other passengers are onboard.

I'm not sure that abandoning ship is in Italian law, and it is not in international law. But he failed to do his job as Captain, he failed to continue to command what was going on with the rescue efforts, or to assist them, and that might be part of a possible manslaughter charge, or it might be covered by some additional law. He was supposed to be, and to remain, in charge of that ship, and that's what he didn't do.

We have to wait for the charges to see what they will be.
 

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