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The Lies, foibles and misrepresentations of John Kerry

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 04:23 pm
Cri du coeur: Kerry's disastrous foreign policy alternative (click)
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 05:19 pm
I keep waiting for someone to go to nimh's debate (on the link above) and argue pro-Kerry... ('course, please bring some substance)

<wry smile>
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 05:26 pm
yeah, noone's biting ... odd.

could be, my post is too long(-winded)
could be, wrong forum (should have posted it in "politics")
could be, others see it as just campaign-time rhetorics, dont take it seriously
could be, the wagons are already circled ... <sighs>
or it could be, we're the only ones who think this would be a pretty <expletive> dangerous turn to take ...? <frowns>

any case, would be good to hear which it is ...
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 05:43 pm
Its looking like wagons.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 07:27 pm
I saw it when I was busy, will go check it out now...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:19 pm
This post, which I borrowed, is not about lies, its about foibles (which my dictionary translates also as "weaknesses").

Should Kerry indeed, God forbid, lose against Bush, a flush of analysts, commentators and intellectuals will go forth about the psychology of the American people, the unovercomeable divisions of society, etc. I won't. I'll blame him. John F. Kerry.

The commentariat would have all kinds of semi-relevant points here and there, but they would skip the obvious, because this much we can already say now: there's no way in hell this race should have gone as mediocrely as it's gone thus far.

I mean, how in heaven's name can a party that represents half the American electorate, in two consecutive elections not come up with anything better than Al Gore and John Kerry? Shocked

It's a crying shame.

Quote:
Message in a Babble
by Tom Frank

The New Republic - Only at TNR Online
Post date: 09.21.04

One can only pity George W. Bush, who has just one real campaign advisor--one who's known, moreover, for being an evil genius. John Kerry, on the other hand, is blessed with thousands of campaign advisors--few of whom are evil, none of whom are geniuses, and all of whom have something to say every day. At least they've finally agreed that their candidate lacked what The New York Times called a "simple and concise message 'frame' through which to filter all their attacks on Mr. Bush." Or, as a school teacher might call it, a topic sentence. So it will be this: Bush makes "wrong choices," whereas Kerry offers "new direction." Yesterday, after delivering a speech about Iraq to showcase his new commitment to having a point, Kerry headed uptown for a big test of his new, improved candidacy: an appearance on the "Late Show with David Letterman." It would not, however, turn out to be a night for concise message frames.

Unlike Jon Stewart, who, during Kerry's visit to "The Daily Show" last August, managed to step on Kerry's blabologues every time they seemed to be snowballing, Letterman let Kerry go--and go. Surprisingly, and perhaps to his credit, Letterman asked serious questions throughout the interview, evidently less worried than Stewart about providing his audience with comic fodder. Kerry, as one would expect, responded solemnly and at length. Who knows whether it helped his poll numbers or not? What Kerry's appearance made clear were two things: Someone needs to send Kerry that memo about the new topic sentence; and Kerry still needs some serious practice before he debates Bush.

At least the interview started reasonably well, with Letterman poking fun at the negotiations over who will sit and who will stand during the upcoming debates between the candidates for the presidency and vice-presidency. Kerry offered, "Well, we compromised and now George Bush is going to sit on Dick Cheney's lap." Fine, perfectly fine--no need for comic magic here. Kerry also looked respectable in a grey suit, blue shirt, and red tie.

Soon, however, things got unnecessarily involved. Letterman asked Kerry about his recent conversation with Bill Clinton, which was widely reported to have been a serious pep talk about how to put the Kerry campaign on a proper course. Asked what he and Clinton discussed, Kerry answered: "We just talked about the race. You know, he is probably the best observer of American politics. I mean, he's the only Democrat who's won twice in 50 years or more, and he's worth listening to. We had 23 million new jobs created, we balanced the budget" and blah blah blah. By the end, Kerry had exceeded the desired word count by 85 percent at least.

Kerry must simply have left his message frame in the car. "The truth is, Dave," he began at one point, "we have an amazingly divided America, and, in a sense, that's one of the issues of the campaign, because the president ran saying he was a uniter not" a blah blah blah, but Kerry wants to blah blah "to the American people about things that" blah blah blah and he particularly wants to blah blah "young people back into the system" so that blah blah blah like "cleaning up the environment" and blah blah blah like "health care for our citizens" can blah blah blah. In short, an opportunity to plug that concise new message got wasted in a long and meandering trip through Hideous Remains of Stump Speech Lane. This wasn't New Kerry; this was Kerry Classic.

To make things worse, when Kerry gets defensive, he really gets talking. Letterman triggered an avalanche when he asked about recent changes that Kerry has made to his campaign--namely, about why Kerry had just hired some Clinton campaign veterans. Kerry's answer was, "Just because, you know, as a campaign grows--a presidential campaign is an enormous undertaking. The White House has all these people in place over the course of four years. I won the nomination in March, and suddenly you're building literally a multi-million dollar corporation in the span of days, and you've got to grow, and there are stages of it. After the convention ..." Apparently, an answer like "They're great people, and I wanted them on board" was taken.

The question, really, was why on earth softballs like this were catching Kerry so off guard. Even if campaign shake-ups have been too recent for Kerry to have thought of a pat answer to questions about his new hires, this excuse certainly doesn't work for questions about Iraq. When Letterman asked Kerry if we'd be in Iraq today if Kerry had been president instead of Bush, Kerry said, "No." Then, as Kerry was about to erupt again, Letterman asked if Kerry would have invaded Iraq if he'd had the same intelligence reports that Bush had at the time. Kerry responded: "If we had the same intelligence that President Bush had--we know now that there were no weapons of mass destruction, we know there was no connection to Al Qaeda, we know there was no imminent threat, and under those circumstances, I would not have taken America to war." Which answered Letterman's question not at all, so Letterman repeated it, basically. Kerry then went into a long litany about inspections or alienating the universe or who knows what. No voter--not even the most gullible swing voter--would have failed to sense something was making Kerry uncomfortable. And this was Letterman--hardly the toughest inquisitor.

Kerry did have one good run on Iraq, however. Gone was the hackneyed let's-focus-on-issues-that-really-matter-to-the-American-people style of speak, and in its place was pretty straight talk about the mess we've created. Kerry's point was, anomalously, simple and clear: Bush was ignoring the problems on the ground and neglecting to prepare Iraq for any sort of stable future. "If election personnel are going to be kidnapped and beheaded," Kerry said at one point, "we're not going to have an election." Kerry offered some broad outlines of how he would handle the situation, while emphasizing that the situation constantly changes. His main point, however, resonated: Bush was "selling this rosy scenario while our young men and women are risking their lives for our nation, and they deserve the truth from the commander-in-chief." Whatever allowed Kerry this bout of lucidity needs to be cultivated.

Last night, Letterman, pointing to the seat next to his desk, repeated one of his favorite quips: "The road to the White House goes right through that chair right there." At this point, though, it's not even a quip. Kerry has simply performed a standard campaign rite, and, even if he didn't manage to impress many television viewers last night (and, given the mystery of swing voting minds, who's to say he didn't?) he's at least one step further along the way. What may prove more important, however, is that Kerry got a valuable warning: When it comes to reasonable, tough questions, he needs reasonable, succinct answers--and very soon.

Tom Frank is a reporter-researcher at TNR.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:23 pm
Argh.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:26 pm
New strategy for Republicans: Get Kerry TV gigs, and let him talk.

Wow.

I guess Bush The Less Than Exhilerating Public Speaker has stiff competition for the title.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:34 pm
I am disapointed that the dems have put up two candidates in a row that are unable to scrap with the bush machine, but that does not lessen my opinion of the bush machine, which I find to be the most reprehensible group of people in American History.

It is truly a sad day for America to have to choose between these two, and a sad reflection on the apathy of Americans coast to coast.

My broken record litany.

I will probably vote for Kerry instead of Badnarik but only because I think it is so vital for bush to get gone. I have a daughter and a son that will be draft age in the next five years.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 01:56 pm
Yeah.

I don't know what the answer is. The whole system sucks. Especially dirty politics and "character" and crap. John Kennedy could never get elected today. His philandering would be uncovered and his physical frailty would be played up and I'm sure there would be something in his war service to be dragged through the mud...

So we have milquetoasts who have no skeletons in their closets (not that it matters, skeletons are created), focus-group amalgams that don't inspire any particular passion and are terrified of making a misstep because it would be waved in their faces and the electorate's faces every 5 seconds until the election.

Meanwhile, Bush lies, reneges on promises, calls loosening of pollution standards the "Clean Skies Initiative", get us into a quagmire and is amazingly, blatantly dastardly -- but people don't care.

What the hell can be done about that?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 03:43 pm
Meaningful campaign finance reform.
A way for non-millionaires to run for President.

You know, all this time we spend hating our boring topics...we should start a thread--write a bill that makes sense and send it to our representatives. All of us. The collective group could probably come up with something workable.

If you want to DO something. Why not?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 04:32 pm
http://csmonitor.com/2004/0922/csmimg/cartoon.jpg

A picture worth a thousand words.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 04:34 pm
sozobe wrote:
... The whole system sucks. Especially dirty politics and "character" and crap. John Kennedy could never get elected today. His philandering would be uncovered and his physical frailty would be played up and I'm sure there would be something in his war service to be dragged through the mud...

...

Meanwhile, Bush lies, reneges on promises, calls loosening of pollution standards the "Clean Skies Initiative", get us into a quagmire and is amazingly, blatantly dastardly -- but people don't care.

What the hell can be done about that?


It must be either that our system is bad or the electorate is stupid. I guess that Soz doesn't consider it possible that the Democrat party has not been able to rise above the numerous single issue groups which increasingly drive it and synthesize a coherent program, or even to select candidates who are able to synthesize and represent such a program.

The fact is the Democrats know well what they don't want (someone else in power), but they are not able to come up with a coherent and self-consistent formulation of what they do want. As a result they flip-flop between the John Deans and the John Kerrys. never aware of the many contradictions involved.

The air environmental standards issue to which Soz refers enables real improvements in air quality to actually be achieved by real people doing real things. The alternative is a Democrat-preferred impasse in which utilities are prevented from any performance improvement for old power plants without fully implementing all the latest standards. This kind of absurdity has created environmentally adverse incentives for our major power producers. In a similar way the absurd prohibition of logging or partial clearing in our forests so favored by the Democrat zealots has created epidemic losses of forest through fires and parasite infestation.

It is nice to embrace high-sounding principles. it is also important to know something about the subject you propose to regulate.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 04:38 pm
I am so Judy Garland /Mickey Rooney about campaign finance.... My dad has a barn...I can sew the costumes....LET'S PUT ON A PLAY AND RAISE THE MONEY!!!





<shuffles out, muttering....>
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 05:29 pm
Who gets the money we raise?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 07:05 pm
(It was metaphorical with my "Hey, let's write a campaign finance reform bill" speech.)
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 07:29 pm
Oh darn. Well I'll find something to use this brownie recipe for.

It is so blatantly obvious now, however, that the McCain/Feingold campaign finance reform bill is so flawed and so ineffective that it has made things worse, not better.

I hope some are watching Hannity & Combes tonight too. The string of witnesses they've had on has been fascinating re Killian, Bush's draft record, the whole memogate mess, and the new Swiftboat ad out. If Bill Clinton was the teflon president that nothing stuck to, Kerry better be drenched in WD40.
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padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 08:35 pm
We already know that Bush is drenched in superglue.
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padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 08:36 pm
Bush has dead babies stuck all over him.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2004 08:40 pm
Sure, let's write a campaign finance bill.

Ahem.

<pen poised>

You start.

No wait wait it's not just finance... I think McCain/ Feingold could be fiddled with and tightened and that would be that. It's the whole culture, the stuff that makes the non-Americans here grimace and gasp and say "you guys actually CARE about that? That would never get more than a paragraph on the 16th page here..."

(george, I see ya, not ignoring you, but not in the mood to debate Clean Skies. Could just get one of the many articles showing how bogus it is but that's boring.)

Some people I respect will vote for Bush for reasons that I don't like but can respect. But there are a whole lot of other people who choose who to vote for for the stupidest reasons. (Either party.) That's what I'd like to get away from and dunno how, it's not campaign finance reform -- it's the tabloidization of the election process. As with any of these things -- reality TV, whatever -- it's a feedback loop. Trash is made by the media -- but people WATCH it. So, duh, the media manufactures more trash -- they want to sell what they produce. People are to blame, the media is to blame, but it doesn't have one nicely isolated source.

Competency tests for voters were mentioned here someplace, I like that idea, really. It would take serious work, and would require a lot of effort to make sure people were not disenfranchised -- interpreters, classes, etc., etc. If people had to pass a test to vote, maybe that would finally make them examine the issues.

And again, if people examine the issues thoroughly and based on this examination -- not gut feeling, not prejudices, not hairstyle -- vote for whomever, I don't care. I think fishin' is one of the smartest guys around and he's voiced a lot of support for Bush (dunno who he's voting for, actually, I think Bush but I'm not sure.) What gets me is that I think the percentage of voters who do this kind of examination is way too low.

What am I doing besides kvetching? Working for the Kerry campaign here, happily one of the most important places I could be. (Columbus, OH.). Getting out the vote. Trying to talk about issues wherever I can. Donating to causes that specifically emphasize issues and education.

A drop in the bucket, all.
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