@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:That a doctor thinks someone is dead, and that someone subsequently regains consciousness
is evidence of either the ignorance of the doctor, or the less than comprehensive state of medicine.
I will concede that, in some cases, that might be true, i.e.,
that the patient was not actually dead and that his death was misinterpreted;
anyone can make a mistake, but that 's not what the actual decedents
have in mind when thay use it.
Indeed, some of them describe it as awakening to a more clear reality
than thay had before the death. Some have had adventures
upon which thay report that later have been proven accurate.
For instance, a lady of my acquaintance, Mary Frances, spoke of
her death in the 1950s, while she had trouble giving birth
in a Florida hospital. She said that she saw one of her children
waiting her out, sitting on the top of a flight of wooden stairs
behind the hospital, and saw a female black cook give him
a slice of chocolate cake then descend the stairs and pull down
a miniature banana from a tree and give it to the boy.
She said that her thoughts then turned to her daughter in school,
several miles distant, whereupon she arrived in her class
and saw that a spelling test was being administered.
She saw that her child had misspelled one of the words
(not using fonetic spelling). She was invested with emotional
pain at the impending loss of her family, whereupon she
arrived back in the hospital and she re-entered her human body
and her body re-vived. Her doctor was enuf of a curious scientist
to inquire what it was like to be dead; she told him.
The cook confirmed the cake & the banana.
Mary 's husband was told of her adventures.
She said that he went to their child 's school,
the teacher confirmed that at the time of day
in question a spelling test was adminintered
and her daughter returned home with the misspelled word.
Revival of her human body co-incided with her re-entry therein,
she informed.
Setanta wrote:If the heart is not pumping blood to the brain, you've got a few minutes until irreversible brain damage is done.
That has proven not always to be the case,
e.g., when a patient was on a mechanical pumping machine
when the heart is disconnected for work and the pump stops.
In this situation, after returning to life, the ex-deceased
(is that OK, Izzy?) has accurately described words and deeds
that were not discernable from his position on the table,
even if he had been awake.
Setanta wrote:So no one who were "dead" for an hour would escape that damage, unless the blood were still circulating--in which case,
he or she had never been dead.
That was the old thinking, later disproven by experience.
Up until the Wright Bros. did their thing in Kitty Hawk,
respected physicists asserted with confidence that
heavier than air flight was impossible (as the birds & bees flew
by outside the window). Refutation of earlier scientific thought
is not a new event. Einstein partially disproved Newton, etc.
We live & learn.
Setanta wrote:You can say what you like, but these people cannot accurately be called decedents (and i have no doubt you think you can argue that they are). You can argue that they were presumed decedents, but not that they actually were decedents.
I see no reason to reject the defintions & descriptions of the surgeons
and of the revived patients themselves, some of whom were senior medical doctors in their own right.
We need not limit our beliefs to
radios; we can also believe in radio
waves.
David