Any idea what kind of social disorder this could be? (a little creepy short story)

what part of Germany did you grow up in? and what year did you leave?

of course there aren't as many, but perhaps I experienced this more than where you grew up or more than the time you were living in. I lived in Frankurt and Hannover, and Frankfurt was full of Eritrean immigrants where I grew up .... East Africans ... and obviously Turks ... but also Sri Lankans, Mauritians ... I spent my childhood in a neighborhood packed with immigrants. And I wasn't aware of the racism throughout my childhood because I guess I didn't think about these things, and nobody educated me on the issue, so I never thought that somebody might be rude to me because of that. All I would see was grouchy faces. And I didn't realize faces could look different until later on. I thought that grouchiness was normal.
Anyways, my point is that this refugee situation I was born into was a little over 20 yrs ago, and the next generation is there. We are young still ... but we are essentially there as Germans who are still not recognized. And I understand it too, because Germany is not used to this ... it's all fairly new, compared to the history of African-Americans over here or even Latinos. America has had a lot more time to get used to ethnic diversity.
In Frankfurt, in my neighborhood, I only knew 2 Germans. Later in Hannover things were very different, most of my friends were German there and I saw a lot less ethnic diversity. But I see your point, and you're right, in Hannover most Africans were very new, so the next generation is not there yet completely. Language and culture are still huge barriers there. Still, I had some friends, older than me, who would be the next generation, moving closer to Frankfurt; lots of half-Ghanaian/half-German kids, even in Hannover. Frankfurt is just different. I think Berlin would be an even stronger example, in terms of the history Africans and general ethnic diversity there.
But black people from the US shouldn't even be contrasted with them when speaking of racism because the contexts are so different. There are no slavery issues involved in Germany, which shifts the dynamics of the type of racism completely.

also, about the "grouchy face"

Germans smile less in general, regardless of racism. That should be acknowledged too, so there are some deeper cultural differences that might have skewed my perception of the contrast between the Germany and US

Munich is my hometown and I left in the mid 80s.
Sure, Germany is overwhelmed with refugees, an not all are welcome, but as you said, you mainly grew up in neighborhoods packed with immigrants and
mostly segregated from Germans. I wish there would be a way to integrate refugees in a manner that allows them to assimilate better but I do think that the younger generation is more open to it. Nonetheless, black people are still somewhat a novelty in Germany, whereas in the United States they're mostly born here and considered Americans and not refugees like in Germany.

Sorry, we've gotten off topic here from your elevator experience, but even here I think you are a bit touchy, perhaps due to your experience in Germany, since you mentioned that the old lady might be objectionable to your skin color.

Probably a misconnection in communication, but it is more likely that that old lady might be afraid of Persian color, in my view. But also maybe not, may be about strangers in general.

But we don't know that old lady. We are layering on based on our premisses.

So you left a couple years before I was born ... I only mentioned my ethnic background to see people's ideas. I don't really have a stance on this whole "racist vs its-nothing-personal" discussion that started and I am honestly not too interested in thinking about it in racist terms, because it's boring and no new topic to me ... I've done enough thinking about racism, my brain is currently well-fed on that topic. Right now the human mind in general is much more fascinating to me because it ties it all in, it's bigger than that ... what other things could be going on in her motivations, when she is unable to walk ahead of me ... that's what I am interested in.

lolol "persian color"

What other things -

- she is afraid of everyone but her one or more keepers.

- she has some construct of behavior in her mind, from way back, like facing forward rigidly in an elevator.

From my experience, people can go way back in time with dementia.

Not that she has it, that's just a posit.

Yes, that could be. Reminds me of our old adopted grandma who is now severely demented and thinks everyone is out to harm her. She won't eat prepared food as she thinks it's poisoned, she won't let the neighbor into the
house because she feels they might rob her and so on. She has become so paranoid due to her dementia, she isolated herself completely. It's so very sad to see them behave like this.

that was sardonic, watch out for me.

I'm from west los angeles. Persians landed here and well they did. Or there, as I don't live there now, but did for a long time.

Not that I was happy re some real estate choices.

wow..... sounding very similar. thank you both, I have something new to research

I hope this whole thread isn't being perceived as my insensitive fascination with weird behaviors. I do care. A lot. Which is why I want to talk about it and learn, so that I can understand all issues involved in the creation of these behaviors. I don't think it's possible for me to be interested in her mind without being interested in the well-being of humanity as a whole.

I wish your loved ones all the best, whether they are with you physically or not.

oh man . Tehrangeles. I'm afraid of going there because I keep hearing about the Persian overload. we have a lot of cliches and stereotypes about LA persians, that seem to hold true for the most part. I don't know how I would act over there but I don't think I would act normally around so many Persians. hahahah

Goldamber, maybe on another thread or private message I'd like to ask you if you know a friend, perhaps via some network.. Not tonight, as I'm getting sleepy. Just whether he and wife are ok.

Edits to add, I'm a woman.
you can figure that out some of the time by clicking on people's username and seeing their profiles. Lots of people chicken out, but some of us do post profiles.

This probably has nothing to do with you . . .

She may have an elevator phobia!!

Some people also don't have periphial vision. Or she has a neck disorder so that her neck can't turn. Or she may be deaf.

Smile and wave head on to her when entering, but don't expect much. I have a feeling that she is very uncomfortable on that elevator.

I kind of put my hands up under my chin like little hamster hands then I began to clean myself like a little hamster would. I kind of squinched up my nose and twitched around and with my hands under my chin sat up and turned around like a hamster would.

I like that.

feel free to message me

Goldamber, My immediate reaction when I read your first post was that the woman is afraid. It wouldn't surprise me if she'd been attacked in an elevator and was simply taking precautions. But the fact is that there could be any number of reasons why she reacts the way she does. Do you talk to anyone in the building? If so, you might bring up the subject and see whether she acts that way with others.

I live in a big building, and ride in the elevator with all types. Smilers, ignorers, chatters, etc. I generally don't pay much attention, unless I'm in the elevator with someone with a dog. I talk to the dog.

Yes, that was my feeling, too, osso.
Goldamber, the way she behaves may have absolutely nothing to do with her response to you.
She might, for example, just be a reclusive or very lonely old person who has very little contact with other people anymore.
Maybe the simple act of leaving her home requires considerable willpower & causes her huge anxiety?
Maybe your interest in her (whether it's well intentioned or not) causes her to become even more anxious?
Who knows?
But she does not necessarily have a "social disorder".
There may be perfectly good reasons for her being the way she is.

edit: ... or maybe the fact that you see her as "a little creepy" & describe her as having a "social disorder" may have something to do with her behaviour.
You have in fact made a judgment about her & maybe she's sensitive or astute enough to have sensed your perception of her.

The frozen, seemingly unfriendly face may be the mask characteristic of Parkinson's. The disease manifests so differently in each person. Social phobia is another possibility. My guess would be that whatever the cause, it has little to do with you personally, and that she's like this with everyone.

Although there are many and varied explanations for her behavior, any of which could be true, to answer the original question of what kind of social disorder, it would be Paranoid Personality Disorder.

And if that's the case, your best bet is to leave her be. Perceptions is reality, and people with PPD can become violent if they interpret your actions as hostile.