Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

I have gone way out of my way to say that reincarnation exists...because I believe it does, and because it is not stated in the Bible does not mean it isn't real....

I am off course not sure if it is somewhere in the Bible or not. However, a body dies, a soul lives. Even animals, though scientists state they do not. I find it interesting that a cat can die, never, ever, go into a back yard 13 years, but somehow the next day you find a lump of his fur floating in the pool, dry, and the clock stopped at the time he died, still ticks till today, some 9 months later..

My Grandmother stated if she could ever prove that she is still here, in spirit she would. She was a very wise woman. I believe she has been successful with that, on more than one occasion.

But if a soul lives... And there are 7 planes, who is to say that, that exact soul doesn't come back into another body, and for what reason.

Somewhere along the line, I gained an impression that "lost souls" don't want to leave the Earth and they wonder around, "ghosts"... And, that each soul that does return, returns to correct their past mistakes, I don't think I have yet:) And, that depending on what a soul can offer "man kind" depends on how many times they come back..

There were some brilliant souls that have left this Earth but taught people alot, given alot of food for thought, created what we call miracles... Surely, therefore, they were lessons for us to learn and those "people" were old souls.

Good lord FS lols.

Oh well that be me.

Anyways.

Spirituality is not to be gleened the same way as Christian and worshiping God, you know I don't go to Church... But, I do believe that a God does exist and that whatever ,"gift" I may have, it has helped people and in that, it's what I am meant to do.

Having faith and teaching or suggesting that others have faith, as you know, to me, is for the person to believe in themselves... From there what ever else they choose to believe in is up to them. But, to have faith in yourself, is to walk this Earth alot happier than being depressed, lost and not believing in yourself, not loving yourself, therefore others.

I don't disagree with your verdict... I see it as you see it, just a bit differently. I don't question it, I just do.

Quote:

One question I have toward you, and it is not in any way a form of condescending taste...But why do you post in questions??? Some times it is hard for me to understand your positions...I don't understand if you agree or not...I don't mind it, it actually makes me think twice as hard, and I thank you for that... But, just curious as to why you post like that??

Because I am asking you a question... I am not answering yours, I am taking what you said and posing it differently, therefore asking you to question a different angle...

Can you see that ? Smile

See? Had to do that haha.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

I just wanted to point this out Chights....and I am not being a dick here, I am truly curious from your perspective(s)

Terrific! shifting the conversation to me, thank you! I also know that you would never intentionally be a "dick", but this does seem to be a "bold" post, I like it...I'm also not being sarcastic about shifting the conversation to me or anything.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

You said to me, I am not open-minded, you said God is a Crutch, and you said that anything that is not of God is poison to me....

As far as the crutch discussion, my reasoning for that was because you've come to rely upon this idea of a god to such a great extent that it's made you dependent on it. This dependency makes you feel as though you almost cannot function (or at least function in a moral way) without this idea. The "poisoning of reality" was because you stated (quite a few times) that you were horrible, evil, selfish (or other similar terms) without this idea of a god and that you can't abandon this idea because you fear that you are going to go down that path again...which I still don't understand...

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

You also said that If your wrong for people to point out your flaws...(which would suggest you feel your right, but want people to show you when your wrong).
Which now I say, because I am curious....If that is true, and you feel your right, but want people to point out your flaws...How could anyone ever do that for/to you?? So that you would except what they say?? In other words, If you think your ways are correct, and want people to point out your flaws, are you not using your views of atheism as a crutch?? Who can change your personal lack of beliefs/or things you believe or doubts you have with conjunction to your own life and experiences?? None, not one....and religious know this, and won't fall down this trap....The only person, or being who could do this, would be God....Since your not willing to give up what you think is right, there is no way anyone, not even a possible God, to come into your life to change what you think is right, and show you your wrongs....(again this if you believe your views is right, and are asking people to show you, or prove you wrong)...It can not be done...not in the manner your propose....You have to open your mind to first possibly being wrong in order to be shown by others what your wrong about....

When I said that I wanted people to point out my flaws, I meant it, and I stand by it. There is (of course) a catch to that however, if someone expects me to accept their claim that there is something regarding me that is flawed, they must present sufficient evidence that show's it is actually a flaw. If that criteria is met, if the evidence showing that I am flawed is presented, then I will contemplate on a way of fixing that flaw (assuming one is not presented, if one is presented then I will take that into consideration as well). Once that is done I will present this correction for future criticism...if there is any. I'm sort of confused as to why you would claim that atheism is a crutch? A crutch is defined as something that supports or sustains, atheism has nothing that supports or sustains it. I stand on my own two feet and face the day with everything that I am without requiring the help of anything else whether it exists or not. As far as who can change my beliefs, theoretically based on my criteria, anyone can...assuming you follow the criteria. It should really not be this hard for a prophet of god to provide the necessary evidence in order to confirm the existence of said god. Your god is also claimed with having omnipotence so it should be a piece of cake for him and since he answers prayers you could just ask him to prove himself to me...simple! My belief's are based on truth and truth is represented by evidence and facts. So far all you've presented are your personal experiences which are non-transferable as evidence and faith and that's just a cop out which says that there's no other evidence. If you want to keep on this path of defending your faith to me then try a different tactic and give some proof that's a little more concrete, otherwise we can talk about other topics. You could also try going on the offensive and talk about me and my belief's/lack of belief and I can defend that.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

You say I am not open minded, and use God as a crutch etc....

But if you look back...I have opened my mind and gone against scripture many times...

I will give you 3 or 4 examples I can think of off the top of my head...

1. It says in the Bible, that homosexuals are abominable, I never said JcBoy is abominable, I said I disagree that people are born gay or straight, I said his views on God will determine his end result (if God exists)

2. It says no one shall read other scriptures or they cursed men and women...I have gone out of my way to promote people of many faiths in finding their path...(Rex, Igm, Found Soul) Because I feel the Bible is a guide, and the thing is to ultimately, love everyone equally, and do acts to progress others, as well as yourself...and to accept, and love God above all things....So I do not believe I am contradicting my scriptures....

3. I have gone way out of my way to say that reincarnation exists...because I believe it does, and because it is not stated in the Bible does not mean it isn't real....

You claim these are horrible irrationalities, but yet you never once took the time, to open your mind to accepting something you never thought was/could be right....(not with me) (and even said your not accepting anything I say, and that I am sorely mistaken to believe you accept anything I say)

You are actually contradicting your scriptures, but what 21st century Christian doesn't go against scripture to at least some extent? Not even the absolutely horrible Westboro Baptist Church follow the scriptures to the letter. Going against the scriptures doesn't really mean anything, in fact, many Christians would think that it's incredibly immoral to do as the scriptures command! The way in which you are not open minded, is that you have a confirmation bias for your god, any of the details you can shift around to make your god nestle all nice and cozy in your head. Based on all of our discussions, I would say that you fear losing your god due to how great the idea of a god makes you feel and looking back as to how miserable you were before without this idea. There could be other factors as well such as family and friends and the fear of losing them. Being an atheist in this country is very trying especially if you have zealous family members. I still haven't told my fiance's family for fear that they may not come to our upcoming wedding!

As far as you saying that what you have altered is irrational, that's not the case. It's actually rational to do that, but it's for something that is irrational. You rationalize an irrational belief so that you can more easily continue believing it. I should also give you a little fyi (I think I have already but will restate it anyway), I was a participant in the Christian faith for 7-8 years starting when I was 11. I've tried to rationalize the Christian faith (and any faith for that matter) in which never worked. When I was younger I didn't have the best life and I wanted things to get better so I tried god 1000 ways to sunday and 1000 way was I failed, everytime I put my faith in him it was obliterated. I finally just stopped caring about whether any gods were real or not because I had had enough. 4-ish years after that I went on a review of the bible on Amazon.com and started commmenting about it. Through that I realized how horribly lacking my understanding and knowledge of religion, atheism, and the pertaining arguments were so I set out to learn as much as I could about it. I still debated religion (among science and philosophy topics) even with my lack of knowledge and through those experiences realized the value and humbleness that came with being wrong.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

You said you don't acknowledge the Bible...One reason is it's old, and people could have misinterpreted words etc...If that is the case don't definitions need to be upgraded to better suit oneself? In other words, my definition of reality would be, What the heart and mind (your conscience) directly speak to you and tell you to do, and the actions you do based upon the conscious feelings, and your consciousness decisions....

So if my definition is correct, (again open your mind) Who will be able to except your positions/experiences/views/beliefs/lack of beliefs/feelings/ what the heart says/what the heart does/mind etc....and validate them? and prove your wrong? only you can do that when you want to...and if not, Only a said God is capable of such a thing...If you wished to embrace the faith path to see this....other than that, there is no other way...

When you continue to suggest to me to "open my mind" it implies that you just want me to accept what you say without question. My mind is open, the reason you may not think that we is because you aren't really getting anywhere. This is honestly because you fighting a steep unhill battle in sludge and not really going anywhere because "faith" isn't evidence. If your god actually exists and cares about me (and all skeptics for that matter), then it would be a very simple matter of providing the adequete proof necessary...which he has failed at. I am a believer of the truth, and as such, I don't have a choice as to what I believe, I believe in what is, not what I want to be. What is true, is determined by evidence and fact and so far the only evidence and facts that you have given me for your god are your personal experiences and faith which, to me, amount to nothing...sorry. If you want to provide something a little more concrete than your assertions I would love to hear/see it. It always seems that whenever I ask this I always either get disproven occurences (such as the crying statues), or that it's about "faith", which is nothing more than a cop out.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

So in closing I would just like to say that it is me who feels like I am hitting my head against a wall....there is nothing else I could/can do to try to accommodate you other than denouncing my faith, which I will not do...remember, understandings, and oneness comes from a give and take relationship...

This doesn't mean I am wrong about God, nor am I giving up my faith, etc... just opening my mind, to the others paths people take to find themselves...I doubt there is one exact way to do things, and would not be suprised in the least if the whole Bible is a tool to get you to Progress humanity, and get to know and Love God himself, nothing less, nothing more....and when you do open your mind, you will see that opening your mind is not a bad thing....You don't have to give up what you believe, in order to accept different views...as a matter of fact, it may be essential so that you can learn, we all can, our faults etc...(if that is what you want people to do for you personally) (sometimes you must take the first step) Even if you don't think your wrong!!

And in the end it may even strengthen what you already know and believe...

Anyways I mean the best of all of this, and I am no here to be an enemy, and I still value you as a friend....SO you can or don't have to reply...If your not interested in this anymore...but if you do, I will not carry it on much longer if you wish...I just wanted to say this in closing, from religious debates....

Please take in everything I have said....

BTW, I still did not watch the video, but plan to...had to go last minute to the doctors yesterday...and will be snow plowing, shoveling tonight....will see you in a few days...

I'm sorry that you feel like that, you could try different approach to the situation or try different arguments or like I've stated early, you could try going on the offensive and try pointing out how my path aside from your god is not as adequete as your's...other than the heaven and hell argument. As far as you not being wrong in your god, I would say that's correct from a possibility standpoint, but not a probability stand point, at least with how I see it. I also know that there is more than one way to do a vast majority of things, I just believe that there is also a best way in which to do things...outside of the mundane of course. There are several ways to hold a gaming controller but that's about more about preference, I'm sure there's a way to decide which would be best but that's not really something that is of great importance. I would also call the bible (overall) a blight on this planet (in the sense of teaching). I'm pretty sure that mauling dozens of children to death for making fun of baldness isn't moral or does anything to progress humanity. The more and more you talk about wanting me to open my mind, the more it seems to translate to "just believe what I say" I've already incorporated the decent parts of Christianity into my world view during my time in the Christian faith. You also talk about wanting me to take the first step even if I believe I am wrong, but to me it's almost a black and white argument, either believe or don't believe, if there is step in between there, please inform me as to what that is. If I find it agreeable I will attempt it, I've already taken some steps and accepting your god's existence for argument sake rather than just continually deny his existence repeatedly without exception.

When you say that you had to go to the doctor last minute does that mean something came up physically for you? If you're sick, injured, or if your health is not the best then I hope you have a speedy recovery or that your health improves, if not, then I hope you continue to have good health! Very Happy

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

You claim these are horrible irrationalities, but yet you never once took the time, to open your mind to accepting something you never thought was/could be right....(not with me) (and even said your not accepting anything I say, and that I am sorely mistaken to believe you accept anything I say)

And even when I stated how I feel it is, concerning what you call horrible irrationalities, you still seemed to make it about how you feel on the subject, in which you do not even believe in religion or a God...and you simply dismissed me/and my views and claimed that my expressions were just less irrational etc...It you would like people to accept your views, and show you your faults, you must open your mind to how things could be different then you view them/the world/people etc...

I believe that I've covered most of this in my previous post, but just want you to know that I don't mean to be dismissive towards you or your views. I may be a little dismissive to what you provide as evidence, but that's because I can't consider it evidence. Your personal experiences are not transferable to me thus they have no weight with me because I cannot confirm, nor deny what happened in your experiences. I was also a Christian for 7-8 years so I know the arguments from both sides and understand them both. Being open minded is not about accepting the views of other people, it's about understanding their side and their points of view in which I do, I just can't accept them.

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@cicerone imposter,

I never understood that, whenever I hear about tax cuts it always seems to be to the taxes that goes to schools...and people wonder why we're such a stupid country overall!

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@voiceindarkness,

voiceindarkness wrote:

FOUND SOUL wrote:

Quote:
i AM,
JUST NOW!
Hi.

Just, time travlynn,
unravlynn,
The mind.
What A mess that was.

Don't blaspheme the ressurerection.
To the pure, all things are pure.
Remember the Sabbath?
Keep it Whole. Therein lies my whole point, my entire life has just been a journey through my own imaginings in reality. We all abide in this darkness that we perceive as light. Who I really am is yet to be perceived. I am a ghost of myself, we all are.

Quote:
Well, voice.. Firstly, let me ask you why you feel a necessity to express yourself so deeply (which is a good thing) your emoticons is what made me re-tract and write another post to you
I don't want to be misunderstood, though I always am, I try to show my emotions as I speak so I won't be misread, though I always am.

Quote:
Isn't everyone's life a journey through reality and non-reality, imagination is a good thing to have it's creative. We have a logical brain, or we are arty, farty, either leads us into the direction of our careers based on how we see things.
You totally missed my point. Have you followed me at all in my other post?
Reality is non reality, we are asleep, thus the darkness. Our mind/body/reality is experienced within the imagination.
It's all a mind trip, an illusion, a dream within a dream of dreams.
Do yourself a favor, if you haven't already, and check out my other post, see if you can understand what I have been saying.

Quote:
I don't abide to any darkness, your darkness may be that day, at 15, sinking deeper into the waters, that's all you saw at that point.. and you maybe questioning in one way, yet you seem to believe in light:)
I had to see the darkness, before I could see the light, and then only through eyes of understanding. I had to be the darkness, before I can be the light.

Quote:
I don't believe that we find ourselves until we have experienced a lot in life.. How can we? We are still learning and that will never stop, but wisdom I think comes with age and in that, we do know who we are, I do, 100%.. So, I don't agree we are a ghost of ourselves that depends on where you are heading, what you believe in, and if you believe in yourself... We don't answer to anyone "human" other than ourselves, but in that we know, that compromise and understanding is important as is, accepting everyone for who they are, because we have accepted ourselves.
No one knows who or what they are yet. It is about to be revealed, along with the righteousness of God.

Quote:
I shared 3 experiences with you, there is an abundance more, believe me.. But, I'd ask this... If we only saw one thing would it not confuse us? If we saw alot of things "un-explained" would it not ground us?
You ain't seen nothin yet.

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

Not you dear, I enjoy reading yours Smile

1 Reply

@jcboy,

Fanks x

Phew the witch doesn't have to cast any spells Smile

lols

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

I'm sure glad I'm on your good side. Smile

I've got enough problems already without someone casting a spell on me. Wink

(Besides, JGoldman10 is no longer here to protect me. Sad

) And, unfortunately, although she's bewitchiing, my wife's still not a witch -- unlike the leading character in this movie ...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vO92PE5l6v0/TbmoOC762vI/AAAAAAAAG50/WgF1oz8wuuY/s400/burn1962witch8.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g0KUqtlnqvc/Tc2NPayS1TI/AAAAAAAADhk/n4pbdn-_mO8/s1600/burn.jpg

1 Reply

@wmwcjr,

OMG I AM A GOOD WITCH (doing Goldman's style) her eyes are evil on the first take, and frankly you just offered to burn me, look at her eyes, she has soul!

There you have it... It is all in the eyes...

I'm going to put my photo up with a little help of a friend here, when I get some time, going to be wearing sun-glasses so there...

HAHAHAHAHA..

Smile

1 Reply

@voiceindarkness,

I like to use smilies, too. Smile

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@FOUND SOUL,

Oops! I may have inadvertently caused a misunderstanding. The black-and-white photo is a still shot (whatever you call them) of the actor (for all you politically correct guys instead of "actress") who played the Flora character in the movie, who was a BAD witch -- definitely not the heroine, who as a good witch was using her magic only to protect her husband. He had just started teaching at a college, where Flora's husband also taught. She was jealous of the heroine's husband and wanted to destroy him. Incidentally, Flora's husband was a good chap who didn't know his wife was a witch. He certainly didn't know what she was up to. (What devoted wives are willing to do for their husbands!) Anyway, I wasn't intending the maniacal Flora to be regarded as an example of the typical countenance of a good witch. Anyway, it's all for fun; and I do recommend seeing the movie. It's one of my favorites, and my daughter thought it was neat when I showed it to her. Smile

It's available for viewing on You Tube under the title Night of the Eagle, which was the movie's title under its release in the UK. And please understand I have no desire to burn anyone! Not even that righteous exponent of family values Newt Gingrich or Ron Paul, who wants to take America back to the 19th century. (And, no, I'm not a Demo or a Repub.) Whew! Thus ends a rather meandering post.

Doncha just love these "rabbit trail" departures from threads? I plead guilty. Crying or Very sad

P.S. I'm looking forward to your photo. But be careful ... there might be an enemy of yours online who would find a special use for it. You know how these things work ...

1 Reply

@wmwcjr,

Sounds like an interesting movie:) If only I could re-wire my sound on my computer, so illiterate, can type 90 words a minute though:)

I WAS joking by the way, my warped sense of humor....

Like I said, I have sunny's on, I be safe Smile

lols

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

Isn't it true, that if you cast a spell it comes back three fold anyways? Why would any witch ever cast an evil spell then?

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@Chights47,

All is fine, but thanks for the concern of going to the doctors.... Wink

Give me some concrete guidelines you live by, and I will attempt to see how I view them, and what I think may be right or wrong about them, to point it out to you.... Wink

1 Reply

@voiceindarkness,

Quote:

Man! Shocked What kinda **** you smokin? Laughing
Are you hearing yourself? Confused
You all are drunk man. Laughing FOR REAL! Shocked

It is written, Neutral
the words don't lie, Confused
We are compassed about wit a cloud of wit nesses. Cool
You be da judge,prosiguitar,and processor. Wink

My point to this tread, Cool Wink Smile Very Happy Twisted Evil
Or your thread to my point............. Drunk
Good luck wit thet. Rolling Eyes
Call me! Cool

I don't do drugs etc...And I am not confused...It is not black and white like people think...Not even you who are convinced your the Messiah...The Bible is a guide to get to progress humanity, and get to know and understand God in every way...that is all the Bible is, and even says it is a guide in Revelations...And I don't need to call you to better understand God...(no offense)

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Isn't it true, that if you cast a spell it comes back three fold anyways? Why would any witch ever cast an evil spell then?

Asking the wrong witch:) I think that's a "dark" witch..

I know Karma is what comes around goes around.

I think it's "do something evil and it will come back 3 fold" ...

So I guess that applies to anyone, not a witch persay.

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

The Bible is a guide to get to progress humanity, and get to know and understand God in every way...that is all the Bible is, and even says it is a guide in Revelations...And I don't need to call you to better understand God...(no offense)

How can you be so certain that this is exactly what the bible was intended for?

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

As I said, in very own scripture it says so in Revelations....It says the Bible is a guide, and that all of God's words can not be summed into one book....For God's words are on going, and it's impossible for him to tell everything...That The Bible is a guide to become prudent in your every choice(s)

And then it's not scripture your relying on, but that it is God....

My own perceptions are that the Bible is a guide to do the 2 most important commandments Jesus talked about...

Which is love they neighbor as thyself, which can be broken down many different ways...Do not do unto others what you would not do unto them...Treat people as you wish to be treated....Don't be surprised if people treat you the way you treat them, in return....take care of one another, and goes as deep as saying progress humanity....Look out for one another....and the other is to use the Bible to get to know and understand God to the fullest in every possible way(s)

It says it in the end, So I am convinced God was summarizing all that was stated earlier, and up to that point....

Prophets understand all the mysteries of God, that is why Prophets/Prophetesses wrote the word of God in scripture...and why people like myself, can see that everything is not black and white....Every new Prophet has something important to tell/and speak about otherwise there is no reason new ones come about....

Since some of you may think this doesn't happen...There really isn't anything I can say to dispel that doubt...Prophets are here, and speak of things of importance...I know I have a gift, and I know that others do as well...

I don't believe it is the own heart and mind telling a person what he she is doing and them acting upon it...I do many things which I think are right, If it was solely me, I would be well pleased all the time, but the bottom line is I see God pissed at me sometimes, and even see him pleased when I "think" it is something bad, but bigger/better/ more important things are happening that are positive in return...

Unless someone walks that path, it is impossible to verbally explain exactly what I mean, without experiencing it...

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

I think it's "do something evil and it will come back 3 fold" ...

So I guess that applies to anyone, not a witch persay.

But It's Wicken who believe this is it not>? Do you personally believe that?? I personally don't believe every time I do something evil, it comes back 3 fold...I think if I do something evil, then one good deed makes up for the evil, and even trumps it...I think every time I do something evil...Evil comes around, every time evil tempts me, one soul is released, and every time evil tempts me, and I reject it, 2 souls are released...

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

The best way I can explain it to you, and others logic...Is that, You are certain or 100% certain of doubts concerning things personally...(my feelings) then there are things that happen, that are not ordinary, Your smart enough to know they're not ordinary....They happen so that what you think and feel is right is corrected and shown to you the more and important correct ways....Most times just an improvement of what God has told you is right or wrong and how you perceive it....Or you do negative actions, but you learn from God, that when these negative actions happen or attempt to happen, that no matter what God always has a leg up, or is a step ahead of evil, and people are let out of Hell for the attempt, or evil act....Proving (to me) that evil has no control ever....Something, a mind is not bright enough to think up by themselves...Not even believers....For most of them believe Good actions lead to good things, and Bad lead to bad things....But with God it is not all Black and white, and all things are possible with Jesus Christ.....

These kinds of actions are not ordinary, and are not predicated, nor perceived by even the brightest minds....For there is no reason for anyone to think there wrong, If God was in the mind....And each person individually...And, for anyone to think Good actions are always the ways which they feel, act etc....but then shown better ways....comes from one who is above, Compelling.....And likewise, If you are not aware of evil, than your not aware of the fact your doing wrong...But if you incur God's wrath...You know without question, what you did is in fact wrong...and is not tolerated....and If you feel admiration, that is sometimes is from things you never expected at all...therefor, again you were unaware of that Being (God) watching you...Whether you believe he exists or not, you not 100% constantly always have your mind 100% focused on him...So for him to show himself in ways like that, And manifest himself....Shows it is not the mind, nor heart, nor delusions....with how you know God....But it is he Who knows, and understands you....from the heart and mind, and conscientiousness....

That is the best way I can describe, what it feels like to know the existence of God....

Things happen out of the ordinary, and they are things that your not focused on....(to me) destroying the fact of It is your mind that makes up God....But rather God knows and understands your heart and mind....And it is not in a crippling way....But in a way for you to do good, and always be aware of him, and to do the best you can, in all instances....(I would never call this, lack of freedom, crippling, or controlling, nor dishonesty etc....) (just what a God, a pure God, who is true, would and should do for his faithful followers)

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