Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@Chights47,

I can see why you Wall Street types spend so much time in court defending charges of sexual harassment.

I didn't think there was much point in actually providing evidence, as you'd only twist it to fit in with your own preconceptions. Still rushing to Bill's defence I see, that figures. Birds of a feather and all that.

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@Chights47,

You know this idea of the Christian god not wishing to prove his existence by preforming clear supernatural acts because of free will concerns seems not to be too logical.

Given by the bible in both new and old testaments the Christian three for the price of one god was performing miracles in whole scale lots.

When science had come on the scene miracles had gone away as cockroaches does when you turn on a bright light.

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

God, Jesus, the Universe does not want you or anyone else to preach of him/them in order to convert.

Correct, the conversion was done by God, So to me, I will restate what I have said...If anyone has a problem with what God let happen, than ask Rex how he feels....

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He wants you to 1) believe in him as the up-most importance and therefore believe in yourself so you can walk this Earth in the understanding of who you are, no one else matters, other than giving courtesy where due and to do unto others as you would want them to do to you, if I recall that verse correctly as I don't read the Bible, I don't attend Church, I don't need to...

No one else matters?? they do to me...and if God in me can enlighten them, then it is a good thing not a bad one...

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2) He merely wants you to guide people into "thinking" about the above, he is higher than you, he knows how to do the rest... Why on Earth would he send people to preach? He was a Messenger if you believe and so, therefore, are others..

Exactly correct, and again I will restate what God let happen, was not me, and I was the messenger....

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A message... gives you room to think.. Preaching to convert? I read where you got so excited that one person listened to you... You felt as if you won.. I can't see God / Jesus, or the Universe either, patting someone on the back for that.. There is no winning.. If you are "delivering" it's why you are here..

If you have not read the Bible how could you be truly familiar with Jesus Christ?? It says in the Bible, that the Heaven's and Earth will rejoice ten times more over for one who is lost, and is found than one who is saved all along...

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Have food for thought on that one.

It is MAN that preaches, to save himself as he doesn't know who he is...

Or God in them, directing them to directly save someone else...and work wonders...therefor, God doing the work but through his "faithful" servants...

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@RexDraconis111,

I totally understand your view here, and don't ness. blame you for this view! Wink

and continue the best for your continuing searching...Best of luck my friend!!! Very Happy

BTW...I sent you a p.m. Wink

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Never mind about the P.M. I spoke to soon..thanks for the reply...See you soon!!! Wink

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Actually, I would like to correct this post....

I totally understand your view here, and DO NOT blame you for this view! Wink

and continue the best for your continuing searching...Best of luck my friend!!! Wink

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

You know this idea of the Christian god not wishing to prove his existence by preforming clear supernatural acts because of free will concerns seems not to be too logical.

Given by the bible in both new and old testaments the Christian three for the price of one god was performing miracles in whole scale lots.

When science had come on the scene miracles had gone away as cockroaches does when you turn on a bright light.

Science never really "came on the scene" it's always been here. Science is the progressive forward movement of our knowledge and understanding of this world. So if you think about it, religion and myth are the failed ignorant "sciences" of their times that have been warped into the irrational traditions and faith structures that they are today. Some of us realize that it's a forward flowing stream while other simply try to stagnate the waters further.

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@Chights47,

Science as a large scale organized and formal way of looking at the world had not been always with us.

The language of science mathematic predates the Jesus myth but sadly not so science.

It too bad the Geek/Roman civilization did not build on their command of mathematic so that we would be thousands years ahead of where we are now.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Science as a large scale organized and formal way of looking at the world had not been always with us.

The language of science mathematic predates the Jesus myth but sadly not so science.

It seems we have a different understanding of "science". To me, science is simply the progression of knowledge though experience. Since you say that we haven't always had science, then when exactly do you believe that science "came on the scene"?

BillRM wrote:

It's too bad the Greek/Roman civilization did not build on their command of mathematic so that we would be thousands years ahead of where we are now.

I don't think that mathematics would have really helped all that much in regards to religion. The Greek and Roman societies did develop a lot of scientific advancements in many area's however, some of which are actually unknown to use today...well we can replicate it some what but not to their extent.

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@Chights47,

This is relevant to what you two are talking about.

If you have not seen this you will probably want to.

The Frailty of Knowledge

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@FOUND SOUL,

So then does this mean, that what I consider you to be preaching to me, rather than guiding, and my guiding rather than preaching means that your uncertain of yourself?? (to quote you: to save yourself, because you don't know who you are?)(of course not!) So why would it be that way for me toward you, or others? They listen and react accordingly, just like I do to them...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

It means that our minds are our own, how we process our thinking is ours.

There is no guiding from you, you posed that question to me of how? There is preaching and there is winning... You're excitement of "great" someone, is believing in Me... has come through... It is not about you at the end of the day..

Like I said, someone "asks" you a question you give your words of wisdom given to you, if you like by "something/god/universe" and if they take that, and it works, maybe they will believe in what you do... And you have done something good.

Preaching about it, is forcing an opinion... I don't force opinions... I answer when asked, which is guiding.

But, what ever you feel you can "see" is what you will see..

Funny, I just realised you were one of my first posts... I now realise it's the same as it was then...

I don't "dis-admire" what you are doing... I don't agree with the method, and that is my call...

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

It means that our minds are our own, how we process our thinking is ours.

And where do you see on here anywhere that someone felt I forced my views on them?? If they don't believe my views, they don't have to, and many have told me they think I am crazy, So the freedom is still there, and ones who like my posts, have never said I give them vibes that it was forced upon them....If they disagree, but feel forced, that means they feel plausibility in what I say, and wish to stop it...That is for them to work out, not me, and if people like my views, then until one of them says they felt forced, I will continue the way I operate...because it's working...

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There is no guiding from you, you posed that question to me of how? There is preaching and there is winning... You're excitement of "great" someone, is believing in Me... has come through... It is not about you at the end of the day..

Your right, and did I not correct what I should have posted?? I am indeed happy that someone accepted Christ, God says, thru me, but by his power, and authority...You can twist my words if you would like to, but my emphasis is in Christ, not myself, if you do not believe me, I guess it's like you said, we will believe what we believe....

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Like I said, someone "asks" you a question you give your words of wisdom given to you, if you like by "something/god/universe" and if they take that, and it works, maybe they will believe in what you do... And you have done something good.

Thank you, and it seems that Rex liked what happened for him, So I said to him continue in your journey of life my friend...what you have done is a good thing...Therefor, I am giving him the likeness he deserves for what he did, by the authority of God himself, and to encourage, enrich, and promote the continuing of it....I don't know what make you believe that it is about me, and not God...

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Preaching about it, is forcing an opinion... I don't force opinions... I answer when asked, which is guiding.

I would say then on your views, it is all in the mannerisms, and my preaching(s) (in your views) is guidance (in my views) when I see people of faith saying I am forcing them, I will believe what you have said 100%...When I see people who deny God, or believe he does not exist...I don't believe I am forcing them either, because one they deny to begin with, or 2 they don't believe he exists so it is not possible for me to force them to believe...the only thing that could happen in their lives is they convert...which is the likeness of God, not me, it may be interacted thru me, as a vessel, but it is God who does this....

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But, what ever you feel you can "see" is what you will see..

If your a found soul, do you mind me asking what believe(s) you have/practice/embrace??

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Funny, I just realised you were one of my first posts... I now realise it's the same as it was then...

Why is that funny to you?? Maybe some people need to be told again...at least it shows that I care about what your saying, and am not too opinionative to think I am always right, in discussing it with you a second time...and always up for learning...

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I don't "dis-admire" what you are doing... I don't agree with the method, and that is my call...

So would you be offended if I said that I value the way God instructs me to do things, and that maybe you need to open your perspective of acceptable methods>? Could it be that it can be done 2 different ways, by God himself, and still work?

I can't say I have anything against your method as I have not really seen you do it yet, only towards me...As I was merely testing you with my above post about thinking your method is preaching....and if were both found souls, than I would say it is not me who needs the guidance, but I am grateful you spend your time on me, and are looking to better me...and I appreciate it, once again...but If I do not follow your exact ways doesn't mean I'm wrong...It means that the one living God that (I presume) we both acknowledge has many ways of accomplishing his fulfillment in spreading his words....

I would say in regards to you and your method, open your perspectives with the One Living God, and you will see that I am not against you, and you are not against me...The battle we pose is spreading God's words...and to help others, so long as were both doing that, and found souls, I don't see a problem here that you keep addressing me about....But in any event anytime you pose this opinion you have about my method, I will gladly read it, and answer the way the spirit of God directs...likewise, I did/am doing now...

And that is my call...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Actually I would like to say something else I picked up on but left out...

Quote:

Funny, I just realised you were one of my first posts... I now realise it's the same as it was then...

Why is that funny to you?? Maybe some people need to be told again...at least it shows that I care about what your saying, and am not too opinionative to think I am always right, in discussing it with you a second time...and always up for learning...

And if I am not opinonative to thinking I am always right, and am always up for learning, (which is clear by discussing this again) then how am I about forcing people?? Could it maybe be, that since your new here, (as you have stated) you took one of my posts out of context>>?

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@FOUND SOUL,

And I am not nit-picking with you, for I don't feel there is a battle (if ever against anyone, much less you) But where do you see me preaching?? I can count probably 5 times or less I have actually quoted scripture in what I have in fact said to someone, one of those times was when I said directly to you that the Heaven's and Earth will rejoice ten times more over for someone lost, and found, then someone found all along...So almost everything I have said on here, supports that my views are strictly opinions, and I have said on here probably ten times, I could be wrong....So there seems to be some difference in opinion as to guiding, but because we differ in views does not make either of us wrong...

And again if people feel forced, to me that is a direct indication they feel plausibility in what I say, with their conscience, and being self-honest...to themselves...not forcing...of any kind...because I do not believe I approach these discussions in a forcing manner...(read above why)

I have read what you said twice and taken it in twice, and still value it, Corrected when needed...I gave my opinion, that we both could be right...So I would hope that you take in, that you could need to open your perspectives as to multiple ways of guidance...by the One Living God

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

And where do you see on here anywhere that someone felt I forced my views on them?? If they don't believe my views, they don't have to, and many have told me they think I am crazy, So the freedom is still there, and ones who like my posts, have never said I give them vibes that it was forced upon them....If they disagree, but feel forced, that means they feel plausibility in what I say, and wish to stop it...That is for them to work out, not me, and if people like my views, then until one of them says they felt forced, I will continue the way I operate...because it's working...

I am not the only one that believes you have/are forcing your beliefs as being gospil...Chights47 has stated the same... In fact I like his way of thinking, he is correct..You do good because you want to, not for a reward.

Your thread is aimed at atheists.

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"seems I got about 5 cheap shots on chritianity from atheists before I got 1 which answered it with a reasonable logical point of view " -

"lack of faith lead them to their door"

"to learn and accept guideance directly from him - (Jesus)"

" I understand, if your opinion changes I will explain them to you "

These are not opinions... These are statements of claim, called preaching your beliefs.

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I am indeed happy that someone accepted Christ, God says, thru me, but by his power, and authority...You can twist my words if you would like to, but my emphasis is in Christ, not myself, if you do not believe me, I guess it's like you said, we will believe what we believe....

That is preaching, trying to convert...

I wonder what types of things you have done throughout your life, how frequent, a quest, to actually help "people" in general, in their day to day living, without preaching...

Giving is the biggest gift in the world.. What comes around goes around.. To give without expecting anything in return, is the most powerful thing you could ever do...

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Thank you, and it seems that Rex liked what happened for him, So I said to him continue in your journey of life my friend...what you have done is a good thing...Therefor, I am giving him the likeness he deserves for what he did, by the authority of God himself, and to encourage, enrich, and promote the continuing of it....I don't know what make you believe that it is about me, and not God...

I believe Rex is on the fence over God, however, what happened to him is that, he now intends to find himself and feels en-lightened.. So, you opened a door for his mind to ponder further into this World and what it offers if you believe in "yourself"...

What makes it about you, is..... You believe you are doing God's work.. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But, for me, it's giving and helping people throughout my life that makes me doing Gods work, without the preaching...

It is not about winning... It is not about me... It's about helping and giving... Like I said, I'd be interested in all the things you have done for people of this World...

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If your a found soul, do you mind me asking what believe(s) you have/practice/embrace??

I should have called myself White Witch and then had you interperate why...

I was never lost...

I have never gone to people... People have always come to me..

I have never preached, yet through answering, they, alot of them, have found themselves...

To find soul, is to know who you are.. To realise your inner beauty, even if others only see the outer, to realise your soul is good even, if others try to break it. To be at peace with yourself and understand people are who they are, do not judge them.. To believe in who you are and all you do and to try to do as much good on this Earth as you can, with no expectations... And, off course then there is music, which touches your soul...

My beliefs are simple... I've already said it 10 times... I believe in spirits, I believe in re-incarnation.. I believe putting it out in the Universe and believe it will happen. I believe nothing is easy, there are always alot of hurdles, obsticles in your way, but I believe in faith, working hard and giving. And, I believe that there is a God, but that man has changed that Bible throughout the years, that man has tanted Churches as he trys to collect money for self gain and that I do not need to visit a Church, or a cemetry if I wish to speak to anyone, rather put the question out there to the Universe to get the answer...

I believe in afterlife, I've almost died twice.. I know what I saw.

I believe that as I am who I am, and for the gifts I have been given, which have proven to have helped many throughout my life that I don't need to preach my beliefs, rather as I've continually stated, give.... Be that wisdom, help, a shoulder to cry on, a chance, or a smile... That's all I have to do in life to make "some" people believe in themselves and in that have faith...

What do I practise? I'm a Witch what do you think ? If I told you I have read peoples words and replies with things that only they know but didn't write down, you'd believe I am a witch.

I embrase life to the fullest and give out as much love that I can... Which is totally different than preaching ones belief and projecting that onto others in hope that one person hears them and therefore, I have done my work.. It goes way beyond that...

I am not offended, however, I still do not believe that he values preaching over doing good. Preaching may work to gain 1 person, doing good reaches a whole lot more that can change their thought patterns in life, better their life and believe in themselves, what then comes from that? Like I said, faith.. Faith in this World...

You carry on doing it your way, for what you believe in... I'll stay out of it, as this is your quest, your belief however, I wonder if you were more open minded as to what good you could really do, if you would do it.

Take care.

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@FOUND SOUL,

Like I said my argument is not against you....but have taken what you have said to heart....I am curious, since you did not answer as to taking what I said to your heart?...

And yes I do a plenthora of things to better the world and humanity, as well as in my mean time talking and spreading the words of God, on here...

You do not have to leave, as your not unwelcome....but what ever you feel compelled to do is entirely up to you...

And for the record, I do not ness. believe you do not know God because your a witch...I have posted about my feelings as to reflections of light...and you can ask Chights about it since you seem to like his way of thinking....

Take care....

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

There is no arguement.

As my beliefs are, that man, himself makes the decisions of this World we live on, and you are man.. You could be anyone, with any agenda really and so, commencing a thread purely to target people into trying to see "God" if they do not believe is something I do not agree with.. There is nothing I need to take to my heart from you, as I already know my own beliefs, I do not need any messengers. This is not personal obviously.

I am glad that you do more for this world where humanity is concerned, and please do not take the above as an insult, there is room for everyone in this World and what ever a persons belief is, is real and therefore true, to them.

I will always see you as "preaching" to convert, as you keep blatently stating that, hense no point me coming here, as there is no point repeating what I am saying.

If you were really high up there? If you speak through God, You would not have made an assumption, that I am a newby... I am more well versed about Forums than you know..and certainly no newby to anything:) Your assumption suggests that I do not know how to read and understand a post, and maybe later can..far from the truth. This suggests you may assume a little more than you should as well therefore, on matters in general.

I am courteous and consequently replied, however, no need to reply back.

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@FOUND SOUL,

There seems to me to be a great deal, of misconception going on...on what you think I mean/am saying and what you think I am saying/and am implying....

What I am saying is that there probably isn't much different from you and I, as far as trying to preach (your words about me) and guide (yours/my words about you)

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There is no arguement.

Your right, and I will correct myself again if you would like me to, or it helps smooth the misunderstanding going on....By me posting, there is no battle (if ever, between you and I) I am saying in so many words, I am not sure there will ever be a battle much less one with you, so I am agreeing, I am not trying to argue...

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I will always see you as "preaching" to convert, as you keep blatently stating that, hense no point me coming here, as there is no point repeating what I am saying.

That is too bad that you see it that way...for my mission is to enlighten as well as enlighten myself with these threads, I don't know what to say to convince you I am not such a bad guy, and am not about forcing my views...maybe I acted that way when I first came here, but I too have evolved....

Quote:

If you were really high up there? If you speak through God, You would not have made an assumption, that I am a newby... I am more well versed about Forums than you know..and certainly no newby to anything:) Your assumption suggests that I do not know how to read and understand a post, and maybe later can..far from the truth. This suggests you may assume a little more than you should as well therefore, on matters in general.

No, see this is where your misinterpretations are clear...that is not what I am saying toward you at all, and in any way...I am not making an assumption about anything...I replied to you saying your were new here, (because you said something to the effect of that) In a way that would not be offensive, that is all that was meant by my position...And you seemed to misunderstand what I meant...you think I am about forcing, and preaching to convert, So I asked you is it possible you took one of my posts out of context?? that is not implying you don't know what your doing, unfamiliar with forums, etc...it is shifting the burden to saying is it possible that there is a misinterpretation going on, between us?? I am not suggesting you don't understand a post, I am saying we all misinterpret posts, do you think you have done that regarding me? And so since of all of the above, I don't assume a little more than I should in matters in general, and that I am always looking to learn to enlighten my experience and lend a light toward others and their journey as well...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

And I do not want you to misinterpret me again that's all....

I am not saying (with the above) you don't understand these boards or are wrong in any way...all I am saying is, is it possible that what you think I am implying, is not exactly 100% correct? and your portrayal of me, is not accurate, and I am trying to explain this misconception you have about me?? Even with me pointing this out, and explaining it a few times now...I am doing it in a way, that I am not taking offense, and wish no fights, for there is no need for any....

Do you see where I am coming from?

In other words, and think rhetorically about this question...Would it offend you, if I was sitting and picking apart your posts, and trying to pin something to you that was not true...How would you reply to me??

(That is exactly what I am doing here) trying to correct the misunderstandings, but yet not be offended, or mad, and discuss things with you!! Wink

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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