52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:13 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Prove it! Prove this theory of your as well as others on here, that this is in fact happening


Theory that most/majority of people belong the same faith as their parents?

You ready wish to claimed that there is any question of that statement being true on it face?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:21 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Why on EVERY U.S. Currency that exists does it say In God We Trust on it?? and who relegated to put those inscriptions on our currency?? If not a founding father??


If I remember correctly the god nonsense came to be put on the coins and in the pledge of allegance in the 1950s as a political move when the big bad godless USSR was our enemy.

I will google it however I do not think it had a thing to do with our founding fathers who was dead a long time before the 1950s.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:27 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
First the majority of the major founding fathers was not Christians

In fact if anything the country was founded more toward the early Roma Republic model then anything else.

Really? Go back and reread this website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
Seems Like your nit-picking, they may not be what we call Modern day Christians, but MOST embraced a God...

I will quote it for you!!

George Washington– Episcopalian[12]

Main article: George Washington and religion

John Adams– Unitarian,[13] originally Congregationalist[14]
The Adamses were originally members of Congregational churches in New England. By 1800, most Congregationalist churches in Boston had Unitarian preachers teaching the strict unity of God, the subordinate nature of Christ, and salvation by character.[15][16][17] Adams himself preferred Unitarian preachers, but he was opposed to Joseph Priestley's sympathies with the French Revolution, and would attend other churches if the only nearby Congregational/Unitarian one was composed of followers of Priestley.[18]
Adams described himself as a "church going animal".[14]
Thomas Jefferson– no specific affiliation[19][20]

Main article: Thomas Jefferson and religion

Jefferson was raised Anglican and served as a vestryman prior to the American Revolution,[21] but as an adult he did not hold to the tenets of this church.[19]
Modern Unitarians consider Jefferson's views to be very close to theirs. The Famous UUs website[22] says:

"Like many others of his time (he died just one year after the founding of institutional Unitarianism in America), Jefferson was a Unitarian in theology, though not in church membership. He never joined a Unitarian congregation: there were none near his home in Virginia during his lifetime. He regularly attended Joseph Priestley's Pennsylvania church when he was nearby, and said that Priestley's theology was his own, and there is no doubt Priestley should be identified as Unitarian. Jefferson remained a member of the Episcopal congregation near his home, but removed himself from those available to become godparents, because he was not sufficiently in agreement with the Trinitarian theology. His work, the Jefferson Bible, was Unitarian in theology..."

In a letter to Benjamin Rush prefacing his "Syllabus of an Estimate of the Merit of the Doctrines of Jesus", Jefferson wrote:

"In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798–99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you, that one day or other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other."[23]

James Madison– Episcopalian[24]
Although Madison tried to keep a low profile in regards to religion, he seemed to hold religious opinions, like many of his contemporaries, that were closer to deism or Unitarianism in theology than conventional Christianity. He was raised in the Church of England and attended Episcopal services, despite his personal disputes with the theology.[25]
James Monroe– Episcopalian
Monroe was raised in a family that belonged to the Church of England when it was the state church in Virginia, and as an adult attended Episcopal churches.[26]
"When it comes to Monroe's ...thoughts on religion", Bliss Isely comments in his The Presidents: Men of Faith, "less is known than that of any other President." Monroe burned much of his correspondence with his wife, and no letters survive in which he discusses his religious beliefs; nor did his friends, family or associates write about his beliefs. Letters that do survive, such as ones written on the occasion of the death of his son, contain no discussion of religion.[26] Franklin Steiner categorized Monroe among "Presidents Whose Religious Views Are Doubtful".[9]
Some sources classify Monroe as a deist.[26]
John Quincy Adams– Unitarian[27]
Adams's religious views shifted over the course of his life. In college and early adulthood he preferred trinitarian theology, and from 1818 to 1848 he served as vice president of the American Bible Society.[28] However as he grew older his views became more typically Unitarian, though he rejected some of the views of Joseph Priestley and the Transcendentalists.[28]
He was a founding member of the First Unitarian Church of Washington (D.C.).[28] However he regularly attended Presbyterian and Episcopal services as well.[28]
Towards the end of his life, he wrote, "I reverence God as my creator. As creator of the world. I reverence him with holy fear. I venerate Jesus Christ as my redeemer; and, as far as I can understand, the redeemer of the world. But this belief is dark and dubious."[28]
Andrew Jackson– Presbyterian[29]
He became a member of the Presbyterian Church about a year after leaving the presidency.[30]
Martin Van Buren– Dutch Reformed[31]
Van Buren is reported to have attended the Dutch Reformed church in his home town of Kinderhook, New York,[32] and while in Washington, services at St. John's Lafayette Square.[33] However, according to Steiner there is little evidence that he ever formally joined a church. Steiner states that the sole original source to claim that he did join a church– in Hudson, New York– is Vernon B. Hampton, in Religious Background of the White House (Boston: Christopher Publishing House, 1932), the basis of which Steiner was unable to verify.[9]
His funeral was held at the Reformed Dutch Church in Kinderhook with burial in a family plot at the nearby church cemetery[34]
Steiner lists Van Buren among those "presidents whose religious views are doubtful".[9]
William Henry Harrison– Episcopalian[35]
Harrison was a vestryman of Christ Episcopal Church in Cincinnati, Ohio after resigning his military commission in 1814.[36]
Harrison died just one month after his inauguration. At Harrison's funeral, the rector at St. John's Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C. said Harrison had bought a Bible one day after his inauguration and had planned to become a communicant. Steiner inferred from this account that Harrison had not been a member of any church.[37]
John Tyler– Episcopalian[38]
Franklin Steiner categorized Tyler among "Presidents Whose Religious Views Are Doubtful".[9] Although affiliated with the Episcopal church, he did not take "a denominational approach to God."[39] Tyler was a strong supporter of religious tolerance and separation of church and state.
James K. Polk– Methodist[40]
Polk came from a Presbyterian upbringing but was not baptized as a child, due to a dispute with the local Presbyterian minister in rural North Carolina. Polk's father and grandfather were Deists, and the minister refused to baptize James unless his father affirmed Christianity, which he would not do.[41][42] Polk had a conversion experience at a Methodist camp meeting when he was thirty-eight, and thereafter considered himself Methodist. Nevertheless he continued to attend Presbyterian services with his wife, though he went to the local Methodist chapel when she was ill or out of town. On his deathbed, he summoned the Rev. John B. McFerrin, who had converted him years before, to baptize him.[40]
Zachary Taylor– nominally Episcopalian[43]
Although raised an Episcopalian and married to a devout Episcopalian, he never became a full communicant member in the church.[43]
Millard Fillmore– Unitarian[44]
Franklin Pierce– no specific affiliation (later Episcopalian)[9]
Franklin Steiner quotes a personal communication from Roy Nichols (then engaged in writing a biography of Pierce) in which the latter characterized Pierce's faith as "decidedly orthodox". However Pierce did not consistently attend churches of one specific denomination.[9]
Four years after leaving office, he was baptized, confirmed, and became a regular communicant in St. Paul's Episcopal Church, in Concord, NH.[9]
James Buchanan– Presbyterian[45]
Buchanan, raised a Presbyterian, attended and supported various churches throughout his life. He joined the Presbyterian Church after leaving the presidency.[9]
Abraham Lincoln– no affiliation[46]

Main article: Abraham Lincoln and religion

Life before the presidency
For much of his life, Lincoln was undoubtedly Deist.[47][48] In his younger days he openly challenged orthodox religions, but as he matured and became a candidate for public office, he kept his Deist views more to himself, and would sometimes attend Presbyterian services with his wife Mary Todd Lincoln. He loved to read the Bible, and even quoted from it, but he almost never made reference to Jesus, and is not known to have ever indicated a belief in the divinity of Jesus.
Evidence against Lincoln's ever being Christian includes offerings from two of Lincoln's most intimate friends, Ward Hill Lamon and William H. Herndon. Both Herndon and Lamon published biographies of their former colleague after his assassination relating their personal recollections of him. Each denied Lincoln's adherence to Christianity and characterized his religious beliefs as deist or atheist.
Lincoln's religion at the time of his death is a matter about which there is more disagreement. A number of Christian pastors, writing months and even years after Lincoln's assassination, claimed to have witnessed a late-life conversion by Lincoln to Protestant Christianity. Some pastors date a conversion following the death of his son Eddie in 1850, and some following the death of his son Willie in 1862, and some later than that. These accounts are hard to substantiate and historians consider most of them to be apocryphal.
One such account is an entry in the memory book The Lincoln Memorial Album—Immortelles (edited by Osborn H. Oldroyd, 1882, New York: G.W. Carleton & Co., p. 366) attributed to An Illinois clergyman (unnamed) which reads "When I left Springfield I asked the people to pray for me. I was not a Christian. When I buried my son, the severest trial of my life, I was not a Christian. But when I went to Gettysburg and saw the graves of thousands of our soldiers, I then and there consecrated myself to Christ. Yes, I do love Jesus." Other entries in the memory book are attributed by name. See a discussion of this story in They Never Said It, by Paul F. Boller & John George, (Oxford Univ. Press, 1989, p. 91).
Rev. Dr. Phineas D. Gurley, pastor of the New York Avenue Presbyterian church in Washington D.C., which Lincoln attended with his wife when he attended any church, never claimed a conversion. According to D. James Kennedy in his booklet, "What They Believed: The Faith of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln", "Dr. Gurley said that Lincoln had wanted to make a public profession of his faith on Easter Sunday morning. But then came Ford's Theater." (p. 59, Published by Coral Ridge Ministries, 2003) Though this is possible, we have no way of verifying the truth of the report. The chief evidence against it is that Dr. Gurley, so far as we know, never mentioned it publicly. The determination to join, if accurate, would have been extremely newsworthy. It would have been reasonable for Dr. Gurley to have mentioned it at the funeral in the White House, in which he delivered the sermon which has been preserved.[49] The only evidence we have is an affidavit signed more than sixty years later by Mrs. Sidney I. Lauck, then a very old woman. In her affidavit signed under oath in Essex County, New Jersey, February 15, 1928, she said, "After Mr. Lincoln's death, Dr. Gurley told me that Mr. Lincoln had made all the necessary arrangements with him and the Session of the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church to be received into the membership of the said church, by confession of his faith in Christ, on the Easter Sunday following the Friday night when Mr. Lincoln was assassinated." Mrs. Lauck was, she said, about thirty years of age at the time of the assassination.
John Remsburg, President of the American Secular Union, argued against claims of Lincoln's conversion in his book Six Historic Americans (1906). He cites several of Lincoln's close associates:
The man who stood nearest to President Lincoln at Washington– nearer than any clergyman or newspaper correspondent– was his private secretary, Col. John G. Nicolay. In a letter dated May 27, 1865, Colonel Nicolay says: "Mr. Lincoln did not, to my knowledge, in any way change his religious ideas, opinions, or beliefs from the time he left Springfield to the day of his death."
After his assassination Mrs. Lincoln said: "Mr. Lincoln had no hope and no faith in the usual acceptance of these words." His lifelong friend and executor, Judge David Davis, affirmed the same: "He had no faith in the Christian sense of the term." His biographer, Colonel Lamon, intimately acquainted with him in Illinois, and with him during all the years that he lived in Washington, says: "Never in all that time did he let fall from his lips or his pen an expression which remotely implied the slightest faith in Jesus as the son of God and the Savior of men."[50]
Andrew Johnson– no affiliation [9][51]
Some sources refer to Johnson having Baptist parents.[citation needed] He accompanied his wife Eliza McCardle Johnson to Methodist services sometimes, belonged to no church himself, and sometimes attended Catholic services—remarking favorably that there was no reserved seating.[52] Accused of being an "infidel", he replied: "As for my religion, it is the doctrine of the Bible, as taught and practiced by Jesus Christ."[53]
Ulysses S. Grant– Presbyterian, Methodist[6]
Grant was never baptized into any church, though he accompanied his wife Julia Grant to Methodist services. Many sources list his religious affiliation as Methodist based on a Methodist minister's account of a deathbed conversion. He did leave a note for his wife in which he hoped to meet her again in a better world.
In 1875, during conflicts over Catholic parochial schooling, Grant called for public schools that would be "unmixed with atheistic, pagan or sectarian teaching." [54]
Rutherford B. Hayes– no affiliation
Hayes came from a Presbyterian family, but attended Methodist schools as a youth.[55]
Many sources list him as Methodist; in general, however, it is agreed that he held himself to be a Christian, but of no specific church.[56]
In his diary entry for May 17, 1890, he states: "Writing a few words for Mohonk Negro Conference, I find myself using the word Christian. I am not a subscriber to any creed. I belong to no church. But in a sense, satisfactory to myself and believed by me to be important, I try to be a Christian, or rather I want to be a Christian and to help do Christian work."[57]
Hayes' wife, Lucy, was a Methodist, a temperance advocate, and deeply opposed to slavery; He generally attended church with her.[56]
James Garfield– Disciples of Christ[58]
He was baptized at age eighteen.[58]
Through his twenties, Garfield preached and held revival meetings, though he was never formally a minister within the church.[58]
Chester A. Arthur– Episcopalian[59]
His father was a Baptist preacher.[59]
Upon his wife's death in 1880, he commissioned a memorial window for the south transept of St. John's, Lafayette Square, visible from the White House and lighted from within at his behest.[60]
Grover Cleveland– Presbyterian[61]
Benjamin Harrison– Presbyterian[62]
Harrison became a church elder, and taught Sunday school.
Franklin Steiner categorized Harrison as the first President who was unquestionably a communicant in an orthodox Church at the time he was elected.[9]
Grover Cleveland – see 22
William McKinley– Methodist[63]
Early in life, he planned to become a Methodist minister.[64]
James Rusling, a McKinley supporter, related a story that McKinley had addressed a church delegation and had stated that one of the objectives of the Spanish-American War was "to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them".[65] Recent historians have judged this account unreliable, especially in light of implausible[vague] statements Rusling made about Lincoln's religion.[66][67]
McKinley is the only president to include exclusively Christian language in his Thanksgiving Day proclamation.[68]
Theodore Roosevelt– Dutch Reformed[69]
Roosevelt always stated that he was Dutch Reformed; however, he attended Episcopal churches where there was no Reformed church nearby. (His second wife Edith was Episcopalian from birth.)[69] As there was no Dutch Reformed church in Oyster Bay, New York, he attended Christ Church Oyster Bay when in residence there, and it was in that church that his funeral was held.[69]
His mother was Presbyterian and as a child he attended Presbyterian churches with her.[70]
William Howard Taft– Unitarian[71]
Before becoming president, Taft was offered the presidency of Yale University, at that time affiliated with the Congregationalist Church; Taft turned the post down, saying, "I do not believe in the divinity of Christ."[72]
Taft's beliefs were the subject of some controversy, and in 1908 he found it necessary to refute a rumor that he was an atheist.[4]
Woodrow Wilson– Presbyterian[73]
Wilson's father was a Presbyterian minister and professor of theology.[73]
Prior to being Governor of New Jersey and President of the United States, Wilson served as President of Princeton University, which was at the time affiliated with the Presbyterian Church.[73]
Warren G. Harding– Baptist[74]
Calvin Coolidge– Congregationalist[75]
Herbert Hoover– Quaker[76]
As Quakers customarily do not swear oaths, it was expected that Hoover would affirm the oath of office, and most sources state that he did so.[77][78] However, a Washington Post article dated February 27, 1929, stated that he planned to swear, rather than affirm, the oath.[79]
Franklin D. Roosevelt– Episcopalian[80]
Harry S. Truman– Baptist[81]
Dwight D. Eisenhower– Presbyterian[82]
Eisenhower's religious upbringing is the subject of some controversy, due to the conversion of his parents to the "Bible Student" movement, the forerunner of the Jehovah's Witnesses, in the late 1890s. Originally, the family belonged to the River Brethren, a Mennonite sect.[82] According to the Eisenhower Presidential Library, there is no evidence that Eisenhower participated in either the Bible Student group or the Jehovah Witnesses, and there are records that show he attended Sunday school at a River Brethren church.[82]
Until he became president, Eisenhower had no formal church affiliation, a circumstance he attributed to the frequent moves demanded of an Army officer. He was baptized, confirmed, and became a communicant in the Presbyterian church in a single ceremony February 1, 1953, just 12 days after his first inauguration, the only president to undergo any of these rites while in office.[82]
Eisenhower was instrumental in the addition of the words "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 (an act highly promoted by the Knights of Columbus), and the 1956 adoption of "In God We Trust" as the motto of the USA, and its 1957 introduction on paper currency. He composed a prayer for his first inauguration, began his Cabinet meetings with silent prayer, and met frequently with a wide range of religious leaders while in office.[82]
His presidential library includes an inter-denominational chapel in which he, his wife Mamie, and his firstborn son (who died in childhood) are buried.
John F. Kennedy– Roman Catholic[83]
Kennedy is the only Catholic president.
Lyndon Johnson– Disciples of Christ[84]
Richard Nixon– Quaker[85]
Contrary to Quaker custom, Nixon swore the oath of office at both of his inaugurations.[86]
Gerald R. Ford– Episcopalian[87]
Jimmy Carter– Baptist,[88]
In 2000, Carter criticized the Southern Baptist Convention, disagreeing over the role of women in society. He continued to teach Sunday School and serve as a deacon in his local Baptist Church.
Ronald Reagan– Presbyterian[89]
Reagan's father was Roman Catholic,[90] but Reagan was raised in his mother's Disciples of Christ denomination and was baptized there on September 21, 1922.[91] Nancy and Ronald Reagan were married in the Disciples of Christ "Little Brown Church" in Studio City, California on March 4, 1952. Beginning in 1963 Reagan generally attended Presbyterian church services at Bel-Air Presbyterian Church, Bel-Air, California. During his presidency he rarely attended church services. He became an official member of Bel-Air Presbyterian after leaving the Presidency. Reagan stated that he considered himself a "born-again Christian".[89]
George H. W. Bush– Episcopalian[92]
Bill Clinton– Baptist[93]
Clinton, during his presidency, attended a Methodist church in Washington along with his wife Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is Methodist from childhood.[94]
George W. Bush– Methodist[95]
Bush was raised in the Episcopal Church but converted to Methodism upon his marriage in 1977.[95]
Barack Obama– unaffiliated Christian[96]
Obama's resignation from Trinity United Church of Christ in the course of the Jeremiah Wright controversy ended more than 20 years[97] of affiliation with the United Church of Christ.[98]
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:36 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Theory that most/majority of people belong the same faith as their parents?

You ready wish to claimed that there is any question of that statement being true on it face?

No, But the question of How then can I not argue that the same exact thing happens with Atheists parents who brainwash their children into believing Atheism is correct till the age of reasoning>>(If your position is that Most people's faith/lack of faith is from their parents??) Tell me how ONLY religious are Guilty of this brainwashing, Which you and others on here "harp" about???
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:54 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Parents believes no matter how true of not effect the children without question.

However your point was that is must say something or other that most people are Christians in a country with religion freedoms and in fact all it said is that parents hand down their faiths of the next generation and most of them in the US happen to be Christians.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:55 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
I will google it however I do not think it had a thing to do with our founding fathers who was dead a long time before the 1950s.


1864 first coin...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

The phrase was conceived by Salmon P. Chase, the U.S. Treasury Secretary under President Abraham Lincoln.[1] Chase wrote in an 1861 letter to James Pollock, then Director of the Mint in Philadelphia, that "no nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins...


And isn't it amazing that one of the greatest presidents of all time who is believed to be Atheist in Abraham Lincoln, Allowed his Treasury Secretary to write the Above bold text about inscribing that on coins!!! another "sign" you atheists are "looking for"
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:01 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
All coins and currency did not have it however until 1952 and in any case it had zero to do with the founding fathers.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:09 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Parents believes no matter how true of not effect the children without question.

However your point was that is must say something or other that most people are Christians in a country with religion freedoms and in fact all it said is that parents hand down their faiths of the next generation and most of them in the US happen to be Christians.

But it doesn't seem odd that we "proclaim freedom of religion to all" and yet most here whether grown adults passing down faith to young ones, or Buddhists, Taoists Atheists etc...and Most GROWN adults then, with conjunction to freedom of religion "happen" to "choose" Christianity? Why do you think that is? Unless these grown adults, with which it wasn't founded by founding fathers who started the chain, somewhere embraced Christ as the MOST practiced religion with freedom of Religion to all...why is it not 10%, ten ways, with the ten major religions of the world??? "proving" that religion is bogus, and "prove" that we are a mix of every religion, there all bogus, so they are relatively number wise the same throughout the land...10% Buddhist, 10% Hindu, 10% Taoists, 10% Islam, 10% Christian, 10% Atheism, 10% Sikhism, 10% Confusionism, 10% Judaism, 10% Zoroastrianism etc...or even showing that the U.S. is MOSTLY Atheism would be a 'CLEAR INDICATION" that religion in conjuntion to freedom of religion is bogus!

How do you and other explain these "just so happens"? seems to me it is a far fetched path to take rather than believing with your eyes, that these grown adults "Seen Something with Christianity" that shows validity!!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:09 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

All coins and currency did not have it however until 1952 and in any case it had zero to do with the founding fathers.


Now there's a bunch of religious nutters however you want to define it.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:16 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
All coins and currency did not have it however until 1952 and in any case it had zero to do with the founding fathers.

And it does not strike you odd, that Abraham Lincoln was said to maybe be Atheist from the webpage I listed above, and yet the inscriptions on the coins got there, from a Treasury Secretary "Under the Athuroity of an Atheist President"???

How do you conjure up to explain all these "Sudden Coincidences"?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:34 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
And if early Christians did not come from our founding fathers, which you say it didn't. Then why (other than the hand of God) would the majority of religious people who except some denomination of Christ, Choose to come to America, when they could have gone anywhere, and yet Christianity is Mostly accepted in America, and there is freedom to accept ANY religion, ANYONE chooses??

There is some corralation in which your not picking up on...either the Fathers started the chain and it was passed down, and God instilled the Faith in America, OR, The fathers did not, but yet America is the freeist nation on the globe, and Adult Christians just happened to convein here, and sanctify the land, with freedom of religion, and yet Most STILL accept some form of Christianity, Just out of convention and coincidence?, And still happen to thrive here, when our founding fathers never had intentions of making America a Christian Land...??? Why do you or anyone think that anything needs to be changed then??? (If something is not broken don't fix it) Why do you feel it is your duty to persecute the Christians of the Land who embrace Christianity???
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:36 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
And it does not strike you odd, that Abraham Lincoln was said to maybe be Atheist from the webpage I listed above, and yet the inscriptions on the coins got there, from a Treasury Secretary "Under the Athuroity of an Atheist President"???


Not at all as at the time Lincoln had a little more on his mind and on his plate then what is being placed on a few coins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:40 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
...either the Fathers started the chain and it was passed down, and God instilled the Faith in America, OR, T


The chain was started at the point of the sword for a majority of people in the world IE give up your old gods or die.

The faith was installed in the US in that the majority of the Europeans who came over here was of that faith.

If some other people had settle the US mainland such as the Chinese that would not had been the case.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:44 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
At the time Lincoln had a little more on his mind and on his plate

How do you know that for certain??? God is the Center of my world, Maybe God/No God was the center of his mind! And freeing slaves the way slavery was here would be a Godly thing indeed! And don't bring up how there was slavery in the Bible, (or to you Only the Old Testament) Slavery back then was to keep the Jewish seed alive, and you were to treat your slave with respect! and let him go after 7 years, provide food and beds for him etc...If you have ANY doubt about that (which I garuntee you do) let me ask you, would you permit a man to come into your wife to have children, if you were emasculated? (probably not) which proves God mention of slavery was to preserve Jewish Seed, not about whipping and beating people, or abusing them... just like the Bible says, depicted Slavery in the Bible was to help and protect other Jewish people who could not provide for themselves, MUCH MUCH DIFFERENT than slavery depicted in this nations existence!!

F.D.R. Had A lot on his plate as well but also believed in Christ.....
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:50 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
How do you know that for certain???


Yes as he was trying to hold the union together and directing the fighting of a civil war that ended up costing 800,000 lives so the idea that he would give a **** about some words on a few coins is amusing to say the least.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:53 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The chain was started at the point of the sword for a majority of people in the world IE give up your old gods or die.

Then why is or has it NOT been denounced since the END of the sword??

Quote:
The faith was installed in the US in that the majority of the Europeans who came over here was of that faith.

Why is it still thriving here? most immigrants last time I checked were from, Mexico, Cuba, and Middle Eastern Countries....

Quote:
If some other people had settle the US mainland such as the Chinese that would not had been the case.

You do not know that for certain, either, Purely speculations....How do you know that if the Chinese came here, and tried to kill Christians, God would not have destroyed Anyone who tried to destroy Christianity? (Chinese or whatever said Non-believer they were)
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:56 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
And freeing slaves the way slavery was here would be a Godly thing indeed! And don't bring up how there was slavery in the Bible, (or to you Only the Old Testament) Slavery back then was to keep the Jewish seed alive, and you were to treat your slave with respect! and let him go after 7 years, provide food and beds for him etc...If you have ANY doubt about that (which I garuntee you do) let me ask you, would you pe


With the technology of the human race before the machine age slavery in one form or another was needed for an advance society to exist and it ended when it did no make sense any longer except in rare situations such as the old south.

It was not morals or religion it was the stream engine and before it the invention of the horse collar and the plow that the horses was able to pull due to the horse collar that ended slavery.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:57 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Yes as he was trying to hold the union together and directing the fighting of a civil war that ended up costing 800,000 lives so the idea that he would give a **** about some words on a few coins is amusing to say the least.

It isn't just about the words on a few coins!! And how do you know that it was not the struggle between God/No God, that he was thinking about in conjunction to Fighting the war, and freeing slaves???
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 12:00 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
between God/No God, that he was thinking about in conjunction to Fighting the war, and freeing slaves???


Both sides was Christians and if anything the south was more so then the north.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 12:04 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
It was not morals or religion it was the stream engine and before it the invention of the horse collar that ended slavery.

and You truly believe everything you read or hear??? You truly believe that not even 1% of why Lincoln abolished slavery had ANYTHING to do with his correct Ideals and or morals?? then (according to you) he wasn't a great president, and slavery ended by chance, and Lincoln's Morals had No calculated thoughts to which to actually aid African American slaves...but that it was ALL done on the Basis of ways people could get more production without beating and whipping people??
 

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