52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2011 04:22 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
And YET AGAIN, you failed, or failed to neglect, or to talk about Jesus Christ, and what he did in the New Testament, His new Covenant, what he did, said, and spoke of pertaining to The Heavenly Father....And symbolizes a God<of Piece<Mercy<Love<Acceptance<Forgiveness<etc...


Jesus is the only way you can approve the evil father part of the three in one god as he will offer you protection it would seems.

Adding Jesus did not change the fact that the bible stated that god drown everyone alive but for one family because of some godly whim.

If anyone need to grant forgiven it would be the human race to this evil god.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 08:10 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
If anyone need to grant forgiven it would be the human race to this evil god.

(If the Bible is correct) Is Jesus Christ's Death, NOT giving you piece right now??? and validating the Bible at the SAME TIME???

Example: look at what the Bible says will be happening at the End times...Children will RISE against their parents....People will worship, Earthly, Ungodly things (Money, Power etc...) People will value, and hold on to their lives, rather than "giving it up" to do good things to "progress humanity" It makes some sort of mention about how credit cards (Gift cards, Debit, Credit etc...) things will be embraced over money. (look around you, is this/these things not happening EVERYWHERE???) The Unjust will label the followers as foolish, and crazy. They will basically Spring up over night, and continue till the end times...(just look how fast Atheism is spreading, and how the U.S. went from mostly Christian, and is Spreading to almost EVERYTHING but Christian) We take God out of schools, then we are "unpleasantly SUPRISED" by incidents such as Columbine.... and even goes to the point of saying the followers will be hunted down, when it gets bad enough....etc...the list goes on....

Go back and look at the 2 videos with which I posted and watch them!!

(you will see earey similarities of Israel, and the U.S. and how Israel fell, and how the U.S. Might as well....
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 08:30 am
@BillRM,
And those were High and Mighty quotes you made from Thomas Jefferson in regards to religion....Now take a look at what George Washington wrote in regards to God/Religion....and may I remind you that George Washington is the founding Father, or the FIRST, not Thomas Jefferson....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_religion

He says and I quote,"
Quote:
"The Hon. Continental Congress having been pleased to allow a Chaplain to each Regiment, with the pay of Thirty-three Dollars and one third pr month -- The Colonels or commanding officers of each regiment are directed to procure Chaplains accordingly; persons of good Characters and exemplary lives -- To see that all inferior officers and soldiers pay them a suitable respect and attend carefully upon religious exercises. The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger -- The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavour so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country." – General Orders, (July 9, 1776) George Washington Papers at the Library of Congress, 1741-1799: Series 3g Varick Transcripts

" The Commander in Chief directs that divine Service be performed every Sunday at 11 oClock in those Brigades to which there are Chaplains; those which have none to attend the places of worship nearest to them. It is expected that Officers of all Ranks will by their attendence set an Example to their men. While we are zealously performing the duties of good Citizens and soldiers we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of Religion. To the distinguished Character of Patriot, it should be our highest Glory to add the more distinguished Character of Christian. The signal Instances of providential Goodness which we have experienced and which have now almost crowned our labours with complete Success, demand from us in a peculiar manner the warmest returns of Gratitude and Piety to the Supreme Author of all Good." – General Orders (May 2, 1778); published in Writings of George Washington (1932), Vol.XI, pp. 342-343

"My ears hear with pleasure the other matters you mention. Congress will be glad to hear them too. You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast, that nothing shall ever be able to loose it." – George Washington speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs (May 12, 1779); published in The Writings of George Washington (1932), Vol.XV, p. 55

So let me ask you, DO you think that maybe, just maybe God had a lending hand in America>> If you do NOT, than again, Go back and watch my 2 videos, with which the U.S. may fall without God....the choice is up to the Americans....
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 10:30 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Old George might not had been as open about it as Jefferson but the men shared more then they did not and he was very open about his fears of religions beliefs causing harm to the new nation.


http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_GWashington.htm


54....That he was not just striking a popular attitude as a politician is revealed by the absence of of the usual Christian terms: he did not mention Christ or even use the word "God." Following the phraseology of the philosophical Deism he professed, he referred to "the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men," to "the benign parent of the human race." [James Thomas Flexner, on Washington's first inaugural speech in April 1789, in George Washington and the New Nation [1783-1793], Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1970, p. 184.]

6.To give opinions unsupported by reasons might appear dogmatical. [George Washington, to Alexander Spotswood, November 22, 1798, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover]


1.Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society. [George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]

4....the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction. [George Washington, 1789, responding to clergy complaints that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ, from The Godless Constitution: The Case Against Religious Correctness, Isacc Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore W.W. Norton and Company 101-102]

7....I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution. [George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover]









izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 12:35 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
And YET AGAIN, you failed, or failed to neglect, or to talk about Jesus Christ, and what he did in the New Testament, His new Covenant, what he did, said, and spoke of pertaining to The Heavenly Father....And symbolizes a God<of Piece<Mercy<Love<Acceptance<Forgiveness<etc...


Atheism to Bill doesn't just mean not believing in God. He also thinks it allows him to dictate just what sort of God Christians must believe in. Please only believe in the God of the Old Testament, otherwise you make Bill look stupid. Sorry, even more stupid, if that were possible.

For an atheist he sounds a lot like Torquemada.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 07:01 pm
@BillRM,
http://americancreation.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-religion-did-george-washington.html

By the President of the United States of America. a Proclamation.

Quote:
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor--and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me "to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness."

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be--That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquillity, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions--to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shewn kindness onto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand at the City of New-York the third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789.

And this...

And this, which I found to be interesting....

Quote:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=102750


Numerous historical documents and practices disproving Newdow’s claim will be shown below, but first consider the historical unreasonableness of claiming that someone did not do something unless it is specifically written that he did so. Even Wikipedia characterizes this type of logic as an “appeal to ignorance” – an approach asserting that something is false only because it has not been proven true – that the lack of evidence for one view is substitutionary proof that another view is true. 15
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 08:29 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
dictate just what sort of God Christians must believe in. Please only believe in the God of the Old Testament, otherwise you make Bill look stupid. Sorry, even more stupid, if that were possible.


The old testament god and the new testament god is suppose to be the one and the same three in one god.

A lot of blood was spill by the church in it early days getting the idea that Jesus had always been part of the god head firmly nail down.

In other word he is part of god and always had been part of god he just spend a vacation as a human on earth.

Now I know this does not make sense but it is not my religion.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 09:09 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The below treaty negotiated under Washington and sign under Adam clearly state that we are not a Christian nation so sorry about that.

http://georgiagreenparty.org/content/treaty-tripoli-end-argument


The Treaty of Tripoli - The End of the Argument
Thu, 2011-01-20 00:28 — Rsearcy
There is a little known document that is not generally taught in American history that essentially ends the argument of whether the Founders intended America to be a Christian nation. It’s called the Treaty of Tripoli, specifically, Article 11.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." -- Signed, George Washington, President of the United States, 4 November 1796.“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”[/color]When the Treaty came before the new government of John Adams to be ratified, it was read ALOUD in it’s entirety on the floor of the Senate, and copies were distributed to every senator. It passed UNANIMOUSLY on June 7, 1797.(1) The caps are meant for those who may believe or may want to believe this an obscure document passed in the dead of night by a few equally obscure politicians. That would be a false reading of the facts. A true reading of the facts demonstrates that Washington, Adams, and the Senate went out of their way to record this and affirmation of their sentiment on the separation of church and state.

Upon passage, Adams signed the treaty and proclaimed it to the nation on 10 June 1797 and he wrote the following:

"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."

“and every clause and article thereof" .. including the language that ends the argument of whether America was created as a Christian nation. Hard to get much closer to the source of that truth then George Washington and John Adams.

Upon it’s passage, not a word of protest came from any corner of the government concerning Article 11. They believed it to be in accordance with the Constitution. No politician attached to it suffered any political setbacks or repercussions because of it.

north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2011 10:22 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The below treaty negotiated under Washington and sign under Adam clearly state that we are not a Christian nation so sorry about that.

http://georgiagreenparty.org/content/treaty-tripoli-end-argument


The Treaty of Tripoli - The End of the Argument
Thu, 2011-01-20 00:28 — Rsearcy
There is a little known document that is not generally taught in American history that essentially ends the argument of whether the Founders intended America to be a Christian nation. It’s called the Treaty of Tripoli, specifically, Article 11.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." -- Signed, George Washington, President of the United States, 4 November 1796.“ … the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”[/color]When the Treaty came before the new government of John Adams to be ratified, it was read ALOUD in it’s entirety on the floor of the Senate, and copies were distributed to every senator. It passed UNANIMOUSLY on June 7, 1797.(1) The caps are meant for those who may believe or may want to believe this an obscure document passed in the dead of night by a few equally obscure politicians. That would be a false reading of the facts. A true reading of the facts demonstrates that Washington, Adams, and the Senate went out of their way to record this and affirmation of their sentiment on the separation of church and state.

Upon passage, Adams signed the treaty and proclaimed it to the nation on 10 June 1797 and he wrote the following:

"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."

“and every clause and article thereof" .. including the language that ends the argument of whether America was created as a Christian nation. Hard to get much closer to the source of that truth then George Washington and John Adams.

Upon it’s passage, not a word of protest came from any corner of the government concerning Article 11. They believed it to be in accordance with the Constitution. No politician attached to it suffered any political setbacks or repercussions because of it.



great post Bill

if this were made much more public , America could come back to its senses
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 01:16 am
@BillRM,
This does NOT mean that Washington himself was NOT Christian, nor does it "prove" that he himself WAS NOT a Christian...but that he may have said that so that there was no strife when he left, Presidency...and for future Presidential leaders....I feel it to believe Washington WAS Christian, and kept it to HIMSELF...and said those acts or remarks because "others" did not agree with him (Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Patrick Henry)....Being the better man, and understanding this, he made those statements so that there was no cause of self-destruction of the U.S. as a whole...but he himself (Washington) was a Christian, and embraced it, and believed that God had a hand in America....and the Guidance to Guide America...through thick and thin!! (for if he did not embrace God, and One of the others above were the FIRST, then who knows what path we may have ended up at!) there may have been NO SUCH THING as FREEDOM of RELIGION!! (So you can say, THANK YOU WASHINGTON!!)



And again if you disagree...

Again, Go back and watch my 2 videos, and tell me that the U.S. is NOT of the hand of a Christian God, and explain to me why there are in fact SO MANY similarities with Israel, which fell, and the PATH the U.S. is taking???

I will repeat, we are probably the Freeist nation on the face of the globe, and the Majority of the People, "feel compelled" or "choose" Christianity....What does that tell you about freedom, and the validity "behind'' a Christian God???
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 01:21 am
@north,
Quote:
great post Bill

if this were made much more public , America could come back to its senses

What do you mean by come back? Unless your inferring that the U.S. is mostly a Christian nation?

I will repeat, we are probably the Freeist nation on the face of the globe, and the Majority of the People, "feel compelled" or "choose" Christianity....What does that tell you about freedom, and the validity "behind'' a Christian God???
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 01:41 am
@BillRM,
I also noticed on that website you posted, this man or women only quoted famous political leaders who WERE NOT IN THE BELIEF OF ANY GOD OF ANY KIND....(Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin)

Does this mean that I could link you hundreds of Politicians who were leaders/and or presidents who embraced God, and you should take ONLY their views as valid???

I am sure I can find some wait...I'll be back...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 01:50 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

Quote:
The religious affiliations of Presidents of the United States can affect their electability, shape their visions of society and how they want to lead it, and shape their stances on policy matters. Thomas Jefferson,[1] Abraham Lincoln,[2][3] and William Howard Taft[4] were accused of being atheists during election campaigns, while others to hold the office used faith as a defining aspect of their campaigns and tenure.

Throughout much of American history, the religion of past American presidents has been the subject of contentious debate. Some devout Christian Americans have been disinclined to believe that there may have been non-religious or even non-Christian presidents, especially amongst the Founding Fathers of the United States. As a result, apocryphal stories of a religious nature have appeared over the years about particularly beloved presidents such as Washington and Lincoln.

Almost all of the presidents can be characterized as Christian, at least by formal membership. Some were Unitarian or unaffiliated with a specific religious body. Some are thought to have been deists, or irreligious. No president thus far has been an Atheist, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Sikh or an adherent of any other specifically non-Christian religion.
Contents
[hide]

Most presidents have been formal members of a particular church or religious body, and a specific affiliation can be assigned to every president from Garfield on. For many earlier presidents, however, formal church membership was forestalled until they left office; and in several cases a president never joined any church. Conversely, though every president from Washington to John Quincy Adams can be definitely assigned membership in an Anglican or Unitarian body, the significance of these affiliations is often downplayed as unrepresentative of their true beliefs.[/size]

Read, the link provided, and view ALL the presidents of the U.S. and their spiritual beliefs....(it's midway down....)
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 02:34 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Forget our debate at hand...for we can go back and forth with this till the end...For you are "convinced" are founding father(s) were not Christian. I on the other hand believe the majority were....

So I have a few questions for you then,

1. If Christianity was NOT instilled by a founding father(s) where did it come from that Most Americans chose it over ANY other singular sect of religion, (and that includes Atheism)?

2. Why do the Majority of Americans "choose" Christianity OVER every other singular sect? (including Atheism)

3. What does that say about Christians, and Christianity, and a Christian God, that we are the FREEIST nation on the Globe, and the MAJORITY ''choose" to follow Christianity?? (including almost every president from Garfield on...)

4. What does that say about "your interpretations" of God being evil? And NOT capable of guiding, or following in conjunction of America(ns) Who embrace a Christian God??
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 03:53 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
In other word he is part of god and always had been part of god he just spend a vacation as a human on earth.

Now I know this does not make sense but it is not my religion.


In other words any form of Christianity has to encompass that because it makes it easier for you to argue against it, and you can't really comprehend anything else. I don't know why you've got a problem with the old testament God, he seems every bit as vindictive and nasty as you are.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 07:58 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
What do you mean by come back? Unless your inferring that the U.S. is mostly a Christian nation?

I will repeat, we are probably the Freeist nation on the face of the globe, and the Majority of the People, "feel compelled" or "choose" Christianity....What does that tell you about freedom, and the validity "behind'' a Christian God???


First the majority of the major founding fathers was not Christians and the government they came up with was not base on Christian principles whatever that might mean.

In fact if anything the country was founded more toward the early Roma Republic model then anything else.

Now the idea that because the government does not force one religion on the people and the majority of the people are still Christians is nothing to be proud of as most people do not picked their faiths as adults but just go with the faith that their parents and family had brain washed them into as children before they reach the age of reason.

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:05 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The quotes came from the major founding fathers who set up the government not the mass of the people or the majority of politicians living at the time.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:20 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
1. If Christianity was NOT instilled by a founding father(s) where did it come from that Most Americans chose it over ANY other singular sect of religion, (and that includes Atheism)?
\

If most parents believe in the god Zeus instead of the three in one Christian god then the next generation and the following generations would be believers in Zeus not the three in one Christian god.

People for the most part do not picked their faiths as adults but had it given to them as children before they reach the age of reason and can filter out the nonsense.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:05 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Now the idea that because the government does not force one religion on the people and the majority of the people are still Christians is nothing to be proud of as most people do not picked their faiths as adults but just go with the faith that their parents and family had brain washed them into as children before they reach the age of reason.

It still does not fully answer my question...if that is true, then why can't children when they grow up filter out and reason and except other religion/lack of religions apposed to Christianity? If America is the feeist nation on the globe, why do you NOT see children brainwashed into Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Confusionism, Atheism etc??? Or are you now going to tell me that ONLY Christianity is guilty of this so-called brainwashing???

I have another question for you, If America's founding fathers did NOT embrace a/any God, Why on EVERY U.S. Currency that exists does it say In God We Trust on it?? and who relegated to put those inscriptions on our currency?? If not a founding father??
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:09 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Now the idea that because the government does not force one religion on the people and the majority of the people are still Christians is nothing to be proud of as most people do not picked their faiths as adults but just go with the faith that their parents and family had brain washed them into as children before they reach the age of reason.

Prove it! Prove this theory of your as well as others on here, that this is in fact happening....If it were true, with America being the freeist of nations, you would indeed see brainwashed Buddhism living here, Taoists, Sikhists, Hindi's, Confusionists, Islamic's, and of course Atheists....

Or is your argument that ONLY Christianity does this, because it is the leading singlular sect of religion on the face of the EARTH, not U.S......

And how can it NOT be argued that Atheists do the EXACT SAME THING....and teach kids at a young age that there is NO SUCH THING AS A GOD. And brainwash them??...or am I to believe that Atheists have "perfected this act" while EVERY OTHER sect of religion/lack of religion that exists has it wrong???
 

Related Topics

Atheism - Discussion by littlek
The tolerant atheist - Discussion by Tuna
Another day when there is no God - Discussion by edgarblythe
church of atheism - Discussion by daredevil
Can An Atheist Have A Soul? - Discussion by spiritual anrkst
THE MAGIC BUS COMES TO CANADA - Discussion by Setanta
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 05/05/2025 at 11:34:17