52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:08 am
@spendius,
Maybe we can back on track, Spendius.

I will make the statement I made earlier that started this absurd brouhaha using slightly altered words. If you have any logical argument to make against it, do so.

Any person asserting that there are no gods…is simply stating a guess. The guess is a blind guess, based on extremely ambiguous evidence.

Any person asserting that there is a GOD…or that there are gods…either KNOWS there is a god by some undisputable and irrefutable revelation of that god…or is simply stating a guess. The guess is a blind guess, based on extremely ambiguous evidence.

I also respectfully suggest, Spendius, that you cannot come up with a logical argument to refute any of that.

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
I have 4 questions for you Frank, though...

Just 4 quick ones...

Do you want anyone to try to show you evidence if they can? Or explain to you why they have a "belief" or "blind guess"?

Or are you "sure"...That no one can because it is of "your opinion" that both sides are "guesses"? And there is "no evidence" to support either side?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:50 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5217513)
I have 4 questions for you Frank, though...

Just 4 quick ones...

Do you want anyone to try to show you evidence if they can? Or explain to you why they have a "belief" or "blind guess"?


No one has to show me evidence for a blind guess...or for a belief. If a person wants to "believe" he can singlehandedly lift the Empire State Building...he is free to "believe" it.



Quote:
Or are you "sure"...That no one can because it is of "your opinion" that both sides are "guesses"? And there is "no evidence" to support either side?


SM, I am absolutely sure that no one can KNOW if no gods exist...and can only make a blind guess about that.

If someone suggests that they KNOW a GOD exists because the GOD has revealed ITSELF to that person...I simply avoid discussion with that person, because it always devolves into nonsense.

I've heard you assert that you KNOW a GOD exists...and I do not want to discuss it with you. I would be at too great a disadvantage, because you KNOW the GOD exists...and I do not.

If you want to talk that GOD into revealing ITSELF to me...fine. But let the GOD do it...not you.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:58 am
@Frank Apisa,
Thank you Frank...I just wanted to hear what you had to say...And I was not interested in going any farther myself...

That was why I said quick ones....
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:10 am
@Ragman,
Quote:
You're seeking rational thought and discussion there? Hope you have low expectations.

He may have low expectations about others thoughts...And we may have them about him, as well...But at least we all give it a shot...Wink

Because some others may find that "If Jesus got me laid regularly, I'd think he was a swell guy"

Is just not a rational thought, or discussion either...but a statement...Wink
0 Replies
 
DavJohanis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:13 am
@Frank Apisa,
Excellent argument Frank, if you hold back your irritation at me for a while.. I would like to point out that I concur and always have, excepting when any 'Gods' real or not, are in decimation mode or long term torment mode, then explanation must be allowed of issues and arguments will split in two down the center line, but at least all remain happy and perhaps we might admit then that we create our own realities in that moment, which can subside on demand to allow closed or open mindedness, dependent on the pole we hold closest.

Regards
D.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:18 am
@DavJohanis,
Thank you, Dav.

Glad we have a meeting of the minds on this issue.

Best to you.
0 Replies
 
IRIGHTTHEWRONGS
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:26 am



I see how it works! So if you agree with someone, it means it is true? But if you do not agree, then it is not worth discussing? Also, expectations should be lower?

Interesting!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:29 am
@IRIGHTTHEWRONGS,


Quote:
I see how it works! So if you agree with someone, it means it is true? But if you do not agree, then it is not worth discussing? Also, expectations should be lower?

Interesting!
Quote:


Not sure to whom you are directing these comments, but they do not seem to follow from everything said so far.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:44 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank...Do you watch Hockey when there is a season or no?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 09:57 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Not often. I have attended two hockey games live in my life.

The first was long ago when the Rangers played what was then called the Broad Street Bullies. There seemed to be fights galore in every Flyer game, but the one I went to had Flyers helping Rangers up off the ice...and Rangers patting Flyers on the butt in camaraderie. It was a completely boring game up until one of the six guys I was at the game with (a guy who was drunk) threw an apple onto the Madison Square Garden ice.

All hell broke lose in the stands...and I thought we were gonna be killed.

But, I am a survivor and came out alive.

Watching hockey on TV is just slightly better than listening to the game called on radio. Worthless, in my opinion. But I get that some people love it...and in fact have a good friend who watches all the time (when they are playing!)
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 10:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
I have heard it is unbelievable live...Fights everywhere...

I haven't ever been...

But I do follow it with Fantasy...

If you are ever interested I would appreciate some tips about certain golfers who you think will do well in certain weeks...

As my knowledge about Golf, is not so strong...

If you are ever interested in talking about Golf...I am cool with that...But if not, I am cool with that also...


Who do you think will win the SB?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 10:14 am
@Frank Apisa,
Now I'm "out of control". As well as feeling the "heat". And digging a deeper hole for myself. I have no character or decency. I'm nothing but bluster. And not only that but I'm "ballistic" with it. And there's a long list of other stuff to add that lot onto.

And it saddens you! These conditions you assert I'm in. As if it is an argument or even means anything.

Good! --you phoney patronising silly twat. Which is not an insult but a simple fact. The world is a sweet place indeed if it takes me to make you sad. Or that I should appear in a list of things that make you sad. Even in 10,000th place. Or 10 millionth.

When Huxley coined the word "agnostic" he should have known, if he had had any real brains at all, that a bunch of counter-jumpers would swarm all over it for no other reason than to be different from a world of believers and atheists and feel superior to them both. Like with puce dinner plates.

Not with any project in mind as believers and atheists have. How can an agnostic have a project. It's a catatonic position. And bound to end up in mere word-play.

I'm here to say that anybody who doubts Christianity should see a shrink and get it out in the open the real reason they do. At least they would know where they stood. Words can be found to support anything.

Christianity is a collection of precepts designed to try to render an impossible situation passably endurable, given all the circumstances, a vast and only partially explored realm as yet, and to see if it is possible to design a few home comforts. A motorised golf-cart for when the need for exercise presses itself on the attention.

Anybody doubting Christianity has a duty, an intellectual one I mean, to offer an alternative, starting, to make it easy, in the Dark Ages. And to explain the dynamics.

How for example to condemn adultery but not quite enough to eradicate it, as is the case in some countries. How to manage Science without it firing us up our own fundament. How to encourage cupidity and self-seeking and discourage them at the same time. Like Scott Pelley tries to do on CBS News. Hopelessly. How to squander the earth's resources and conserve them as well.

What are we to do Frank? **** the condition I'm in. I'm a shagged out old has-been like you. I'm necessarily good these days. It's been forced upon me.

What are we to do eh? Where did we go wrong? What's your beef with Christianity? Is it that it reproves, castigates possibly, some of the things you have found yourself desiring to do? Understandably I'll admit.

An intellectual beef about it makes no sense to me. Nothing is true when disconnected from the world around. From the blood and from history. 2+2=4 has no meaning disconnected from those. Shakespeare has a play about the matter. y=(f)x. Eh what?

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 11:09 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Circumcision was the way to make yourself clean in Gods eyes...For whatever reason he chose..


There are some practical justifications for circumcision Spade. Presumably necessary ones. Being clean in God's eyes is merely a way of getting it done in time.

If the foreskin could be narrowed like the eyes when the ghastly winds in the desert furnace were blowing sand into every crevice, and water was as scarce as rocking-horse ****, perhaps it might have been dispensed with.

It was also a mutilation signifying a belongingness. Not a practice many other tribes might wish to adopt and thus a certain exclusiveness is maintained and the evidence of belonging amounting to more than mere assertions no matter how long-winded.

It has been suggested that it lengthens the time between inserting the penis into the vagina and it going off "POP". The unprotected glans penis becoming hardened and desensitized by banging and rubbing against homespun loin cloths all day long. A woman's rights issue I suppose.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 11:14 am
@spendius,
All of this...

Quote:
There are some practical justifications for circumcision Spade. Presumably necessary ones. Being clean in God's eyes is merely a way of getting it done in time.

If the foreskin could be narrowed like the eyes when the ghastly winds in the desert furnace were blowing sand into every crevice, and water was as scarce as rocking-horse ****, perhaps it might have been dispensed with.

It was also a mutilation signifying a belongingness. Not a practice many other tribes might wish to adopt and thus a certain exclusiveness is maintained and the evidence of belonging amounting to more than mere assertions no matter how long-winded.

Makes sense to me...why God would do it...

All of this...

Quote:
It has been suggested that it lengthens the time between inserting the penis into the vagina and it going off "POP". The unprotected glans penis becoming hardened and desensitized by banging and rubbing against homespun loin cloths all day long. A woman's rights issue I suppose.

Does not make sense to me why God had men do it...And seems to be your own thinking rather than an objective reason why God would...
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 11:53 am
@Ragman,
Quote:
You're seeking rational thought and discussion there? Hope you have low expectations.


Well Raggie--why don't you contribute to the thread with some rational thought and raise our expectations.

On a site called able ? know sniping from the sidelines is definitive trolling. The pure essence of the thing.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 12:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I also respectfully suggest, Spendius, that you cannot come up with a logical argument to refute any of that.


I can. I deplore the use of "based on extremely ambiguous evidence" . Twice especially. They are wasted words. They are guesses of course. But not blind ones.

There are 3 choices. God exists. God does not exist. Nobody knows whether God exists or not or what God is.

Proceeding from No 1 we got western European culture. From No 2 Soviet and Chinese communism. There are many lesser outcomes which are of no concern now.

What do we get proceeding from No 3. An obviously irrefutable proposition in a vacuum.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 12:20 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Quote:

It has been suggested that it lengthens the time between inserting the penis into the vagina and it going off "POP". The unprotected glans penis becoming hardened and desensitized by banging and rubbing against homespun loin cloths all day long. A woman's rights issue I suppose.

Does not make sense to me why God had men do it...And seems to be your own thinking rather than an objective reason why God would...


Don't allow yourself the luxury Spade. It is not my thinking. It is obvious and especially so if a Goddess is in charge.

Frank Harris wore no underwear to suits made of thick rough tweed type cloths. Henry Miller's father made some of his suits and Henry claimed to be an eyewitness to a fitting.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 12:46 pm
@spendius,
Yes, Spendius, when I mentioned "you are out of control" in my last post...you were out of control. You still were at the beginning of this last post, but I am glad that you at least attempted to regain control by the end of it.

Quote:
I'm here to say that anybody who doubts Christianity should see a shrink and get it out in the open the real reason they do.


Terrific. Thank you for sharing that. I think anybody who thinks that anybody who doubts Christianity should see a shrink...

...should see a shrink.



Quote:
What are we to do Frank? **** the condition I'm in. I'm a shagged out old has-been like you. I'm necessarily good these days. It's been forced upon me.


I am satisfied with myself; I am happy; I am content...and I am enjoying life very much. I hope you can find the same amount of happiness, contentment and enjoyment of life in yours. But that you have to do on your own.

Quote:
What's your beef with Christianity?


I have some beefs with Christianity, but I have not been dealing with them in A2K for a long time...and I think I will leave it that way. Christianity has made contributions to the human condition, but not nearly as pronounced as you seem to be suggesting. And I think that the net effect of Christianity on humanity of Christianity is a negative one. I understand and acknowledge that decent, intelligent, reasonable people can disagree with me on that.


0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2013 12:56 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5217510)
Quote:
I also respectfully suggest, Spendius, that you cannot come up with a logical argument to refute any of that.



I can. I deplore the use of "based on extremely ambiguous evidence" . Twice especially. They are wasted words. They are guesses of course. But not blind ones.


There are no “wasted words” in what I wrote and I am not interested in what you do or do not deplore. As for the guesses: They are TOTALLY BLIND GUESSES.

In any case, earlier you said you couldn’t refute what I said, but since you now think you can, let’s look over your “refutation.”



Quote:
There are 3 choices. God exists. God does not exist. Nobody knows whether God exists or not or what God is.


Those are not three choices…and you should know it.

Either a GOD exists…or does not. That is two choices.

Whether anybody KNOWS if one does or not has absolutely no impact on that.

Leave it at either a GOD exists or not.

There is no way to KNOW that no gods exist. As for whether it is possible to KNOW if a GOD exists, well, it certainly is POSSIBLE. I suspect nobody knows whether a GOD exists…but that is just a guess.

So far I see no refutation to what I said.


Quote:
Proceeding from No 1 we got western European culture. From No 2 Soviet and Chinese communism. There are many lesser outcomes which are of no concern now.

What do we get proceeding from No 3. An obviously irrefutable proposition in a vacuum.


Not sure what the Hell that was all about, but it is not a refutation of my comment...and quite honestly seems to be you saying again that you cannot refute it.

Which is it? You should chose a side and stick with it.

If you chose to go with "I can refute it"...do so. You have not even come close so far.


 

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