Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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.It does not really matter...Since they thought it was moral to do...They would have to be the ones to see that it was immoral or chose to stop doing it because they wanted too...

Morality is not such a big treasure in the church's eye because if it was they would be teaching that moral philosophy should be studied by all "instead they teach that you should listen to them. It is social pressures that change the church when the church feels enough pressure from the community or starts loosing it's members to another church that teaches a little different then the church sees a reason for change. In other words when the tithing becomes slim things happen.

The church took it's sweet time when it came to human rights, women's rights, slaves and so forth. The church is conservative if you have not noticed and tries hard to keep things from changing.
If you research you can find some hate filled preaching of the past but to them it was the christian way. They peddled it that way even though you may disagree with what they said.

4 Replies

@reasoning logic,

Still does not make a difference, at all...upon the church ultimately deciding to stop doing something the church thinks is immoral...If these outside forces are not larger than the Church is....Then the Church would be the one with the power or control to see that it is morally wrong, and change things if they wanted too...Because if they did not...It would still be done...

If they did not change upon hearing outside views, then it would mean the church was only in it for its own Agendas and not for the mission of trying to teach the words of God...Or improve the morality or well being of civilazation...

Whether or not they influence the church to change things...does not alter the fact that, at some point, the church is deciding to stop doing these different things....upon its own...

I have no regards on how slow or fast it is...Certian things just do not happen overnight...and need time to see how they are moral or immoral...

And all of this...

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Morality is not such a big treasure in the church's eye because if it was they would be teaching that moral philosophy should be studied by all "instead they teach that you should listen to them. It is social pressures that change the church when the church feels enough pressure from the community or starts loosing it's members to another church that teaches a little different then the church sees a reason for change. In other words when the tithing becomes slim things happen.

Is just subjective thoughts...If that is what you believe or think...I won't be able to have you see my views...

2 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Whether or not they influence the church to change things...does not alter the fact that, at some point, the church is deciding to stop doing these different things....upon its own...

Yeah so they do not loose their followers, do to social pressures "that is not the same as coming to a moral understand but rather adapting to social pressures.

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I have no regards on how slow or fast it is...Certian things just do not happen overnight...and need time to see how they are moral or immoral...

This is true about some things but sociopaths could care less about moral values.

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

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Yeah so they do not loose their followers, do to social pressures "that is not the same as coming to a moral understand but rather adapting to social pressures.

Are you CERTAIN this is true? How can you PROVE to me it is? How do you KNOW that this/these is/are the reason(s)?

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This is true about some things but sociopaths could care less about moral values.

It doesn't have a single thing to do with sociopaths...or non sociopaths...Logic...nothing at all

So no one cares? As you "think" everyone is a sociopath?

Of course this is incorrect or not true...

But you "think" it is...Because you also "think" that everyone is a sociopath....

Some people are not sociopaths but just do not know what the best method is right now, because it is constantly changing, even the Church is...As we have just established....And there are many sociopaths...Who are sociopaths because they believe their moral views are correct, and they are just not moral to anyone else who most would consider are moral....

Yes, there are sociopaths who do not care about morals...And there are sociopaths who would say they do....

I am not a sociopath....And I would say that you should not think of yourself as one....So do you really know what a sociopath thinks is moral or immoral?

And do you know if they care or do not?

Or is it just our views from the outside, that they are immoral, or do not care?...Because what they think is moral...Is immoral to "us"?

The point of all of this is...That just because someone is not a sociopath...Or cares about morality does not mean that everyone automatically knows what the exact correct things to do are...Before it is presented...About every situation...Or how to change everything wrong to correct in the blink of an eye...

Unless you have a belief system to teach you prudence, so that you can rationalize moral and immoral about everything...

Your very evolution supports this....And even creationism does...If the church has to modify itself, based upon outside influences to show that it actually cares about the world, morailty, and civilization in general...

And it is being truthful that is does not have every answer....As you never could, unless you learn to understand things in prudent ways, so you could understand how something is moral or immoral...The very first time your thinking is exposed too it...

And moral and immoral are always going to be subjective on EVERY level...And no church could give a clear answer about moral and immoral about EVERYTHING...That is why it is up to people to understand for themselves what prudence is, and what things of moral are, and what are not...by themselves, but it could only be done by subjective beliefs...Athesim does nothing at all to help solve this....And people just say they already know...And do not need a superstition...But that is because they have beliefs...Because they do not know every situation that will ever be presented in the future, but if they found out about it....their mind would be made up as soon as it registered in their brain because of a belief about it....a lack of belief would do absolutely nothing at all, and helps you in no particular way at all....

Simply because there are things to consider moral, and immoral that are becomming new every single day...

Abortion would have never been thought about 5,000 years ago....Because they wanted to procreate....

And 10,000 years from now there will be things to consider to be moral or immoral, that will exist, that we have absolutley no clue about at the time being...

Unless someone has a belief, and then could say why they would find it to be moral or immoral....without actually knowing the answer with certainty...

But you reject this notion and so does every atheist...

So what would atheism do that would help us more than a belief would?

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

First off I would like to apologize for joking around and saying you were mentally ill. That was uncalled for but I had a couple of drinks last night and was joking around and I should not have said that.

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.I won't be able to have you see my views...

I think that it is possible for you to show me close to the way you see but it does not mean that I will agree with all of your view points.

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@reasoning logic,

I just wanted to say this also...

Because my edit post timed out

The second part is the new part...I wanted to add in...

And moral and immoral are always going to be subjective on EVERY level...And no church could give a clear answer about moral and immoral about EVERYTHING...That is why it is up to people to understand for themselves what prudence is, and what things of moral are, and what are not...by themselves, but it could only be done by subjective beliefs...Athesim does nothing at all to help solve this....And people just say they already know...And do not need a superstition...But that is because they have beliefs...Because they do not know every situation that will ever be presented in the future, but if they found out about it....their mind would be made up as soon as it registered in their brain because of a belief about it....a lack of belief would do absolutely nothing at all, and helps you in no particular way at all....

It is like saying...Well you should just know every answer for yourself...And you can't be incorrect...Or have no reason to ever discuss how something could be different than the way it appears to an atheist....It is totally a false logic...

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@reasoning logic,

I understand mate...When I read that this morning...I wanted to ask you why you would say such a thing about me?

But I did not feel like it was even worth the time to refute...Because it has no grounds of being true at all...

And I did not even feel like arguing about that...

I figured you were drinking...

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I think that it is possible for you to show me close to the way you see but it does not mean that I will agree with all of your view points.

I agree with you mate....But it can't be done or is very hard to do...If someone is just thinking subjective about things....

For instance that part I said that...And your quote or answer to it above proves my point...Because you do not embrace the Church....Nor even if you did can you say you are certain that that is why the church does what it does...

But it is not really anyones fault...Everyone is going to be subjective, because no one has all the answers...And no one is empathetic about everything because it is impossible to do...

And I further believe it is because everyone has beliefs, and you simply can not prove everything...

But that is also just a subjective thing as I can not "prove it" but it would suggest there are beliefs, and no proof for everything from an objective view...

But either someone agrees with it or does not...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Are you CERTAIN this is true? How can you PROVE to me it is? How do you KNOW that this/these is/are the reason(s)

Spade we are all conditioned by social currents even the members of a church who make up the church.

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It doesn't have a single thing to do with sociopaths...or non sociopaths...Logic...nothing at al

How can you PROVE to me it does not?

Do you think that sociopaths do not exist?

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So no one cares? As you "think" everyone is a sociopath?

No but we do have traits of antisocial behavior or do you think the bible got this one wrong and there are some without sin?

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So no one cares? As you "think" everyone is a sociopath?

Of course this is incorrect or not true...

We all experience times when we could have shown a little more respect to others or do you know of some who have never acted out antisocially?

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But you "think" it is...Because you also "think" that everyone is a sociopath....

I think that everyone shows traits of sin or antisocial behavior yes.

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Some people are not sociopaths but just do not know what the best method is right now

True

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I am not a sociopath.

Of course not you are angel from God or a prophet

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do you really know what a sociopath thinks is moral or immoral?

Most sociopaths are emotional intelligent so I would say that they understand but are lacking a conscious that would bother them.

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many sociopaths...Who are sociopaths because they believe their moral views are correct, and they are just not moral to anyone else who most would consider are moral....

I would not call this a full blown sociopath but a below average empathic person.

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Yes, there are sociopaths who do not care about morals...And there are sociopaths who would say they do....

This could be true because they are using logic to come to this conclusion but have you met one who told you this?

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moral and immoral are always going to be subjective on EVERY level

Well this may be true but there are some moral understanding that are more correct than others, I could be wrong but just as we have established many other concepts such as math and others that use logical consistencies so will we also be able to do the same with morality and this is where the church fails because they are teaching that the bible is the absolute truth at the cost of mankind

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Athesim does nothing at all to help solve this.

Atheism is only a word and it has nothing to do with morality

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So what would atheism do that would help us more than a belief would

Atheists only realize that there is no God talking to them so they do not talk back

There are many fields of philosophy that we use often but moral philosophy is the one that gets the least attention.

3 Replies

@reasoning logic,

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Spade we are all conditioned by social currents even the members of a church who make up the church.

So that means you think you fully understand that the church would be able to show what moral and immoral is about everything? It can not be done, becaue it is subjective to everyone...and what you said above is just a subjective thought, read it over again...Whether I agree or do not...does not make it a non subjective thing...or belief, and I agree with you BTW...

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How can you PROVE to me it does not?

I can not Prove it to you...But I think I believe I know I can...

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Do you think that sociopaths do not exist?

No it does not mean that I think sociopaths do not exist...But it means that in my own subjective way, that what you said in your own subjective way does not PROVE anything, but is a belief we both have...there is no way to PROVE it...That would be my best way to PROVE it...

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No but we do have traits of antisocial behavior or do you think the bible got this one wrong and there are some without sin?

I think this is correct, but it is because I believe it, and so do you...I don't think anyone could PROVE it...was my point...

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We all experience times when we could have shown a little more respect to others or do you know of some who have never acted out antisocially?

I think this is 100% correct, but it is because we both believe that it is...Not because we can PROVE that it is...

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I think that everyone shows traits of sin or antisocial behavior yes.

And in my own subjective thinking, that does not make everyone a sociopath...It makes everyone a good person who just does sociopathic things at times...

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Of course not you are angel from God or a prophet

I noticed in your quote you left out the part about where I said you should not think of yourself as a sociopath...So why would I think this is true because of being a prophet or not? It has nothing to do with that...I just do not believe that everyone is a sociopath, but that everyone does sociopathic things at times....I do not think that makes everyone a sociopath....we are saying the same exact thing here, we just look at it differently...

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Atheists only realize that there is no God talking to them so they do not talk back

There are many fields of philosophy that we use often but moral philosophy is the one that gets the least attention.

Well, why not say that that is what atheism represents? And not lack of beliefs? Because a lack of belief does nothing...But saying they are ones who teach philosophy would indeed help eveyone...

What does a person with lack of belief about a God...But has beliefs about everything else actually say about them? Or how does that help anyone know or understand who they actually are?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

You should try to realise, rl, that the exact sense of reasoning logic in your posts, which at the time of writing they presumably are imbued with, disappears in the transmission from your message block to our receptors in the same way that secret writing does when the special lamp is removed.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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So that means you think you fully understand that the church would be able to show what moral and immoral is about everything?

No I think that a church that cared about morality would at least show a very strong interest in it. "You know the way one does who studies it?

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I think this is correct, but it is because I believe it, and so do you...I don;t think anyone could PROVE it...was my point...

So if someone came in the middle of the night and took your mother and made her a slave for a few years but we caught him, "you would not be able to prove that what he did was immoral and wrong?

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I think this is 100% correct, but it is because we both believe that it is...Not because we can PROVE that it is..

It is because we understand we would not want it done to us so we constructed a moral concept that is universally understood.

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It makes everyone a good person who just does sociopathic things at times...

Where do you draw your line in the sand that makes a sociopath a sociopath? is it when a person does this 2 times a day? is it when a person does this 5 times a day? is it when a person does this 10 times a day? is it when a person does this 20 times a day? is it when a person does this 40 times a day?

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Well, why not say that that is what atheism represents? And not lack of beliefs? Because a lack of belief does nothing...But saying they are ones who teach philosophy would indeed help eveyone...

Not all atheist care about moral philosophy it has nothing to do with morality.

I will be back at dark I need to use what day light I have left,

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

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So if someone came in the middle of the night and took your mother and made her a slave for a few years but we caught him, "you would not be able to prove that what he did was immoral and wrong?

Not in the eyes of the person who did the immoral thing but thought it was moral...No we would not be able too...

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Where do you draw your line in the sand that makes a sociopath a sociopath? is it when a person does this 2 times a day? is it when a person does this 5 times a day? is it when a person does this 10 times a day? is it when a person does this 20 times a day? is it when a person does this 40 times a day?

It goes like this about what we have both been saying...

My view...

If a person is moral, and does immorality at times, I think they are moral, but a person who does immoral at times...

You look at it as, A person does immoral things so we all are immoral...

Or no one is moral...

We do not disagree that people can be moral or immoral...

We just do not agree with the perception on the grand sceme of things...And I would tell you this...

If a person could be moral, how could we all be immoral?

To answer your question...The morality that has been sent down to each person by God...By looking inside of them...determines if they are being moral or immoral....I could not answer how a person who says they "do not talk back to God'' would rationalize or differentiate how they are moral or immoral...

And I can understand why you would say everyone is immoral...But I do not agree with that wording...

1 Reply

@spendius,

I didn't see the film, but I was aware that some Castratos had very lucrative careers.

Do you think RL has a castration fear?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Do you think that sociopaths do not exist?

They exist right enough, as do ice cream men and dog walkers, but none of them are responsible for all of society's ills, and obsessing about them is just plain stupid.

At times you remind me of Senator John McCarthy, but it's not commies that are under the bed, it's sociopaths.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

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Do you think RL has a castration fear?

No. He is obsessed with undermining the Church for personal reasons which I am prepared to bet are associated with its teaching of sexual morality and the castrato idea provides that extra little frisson to the project.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

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They exist right enough, as do ice cream men and dog walkers, but none of them are responsible for all of society's ills, and obsessing about them is just plain stupid.

We were having a conversation about immorality and so forth so I do find traits of antisocial behavior to be relevant to the conversation, "now if we were to talk about ice cream deliveries then I think ice cream men would be relevant or if we were to talk about someone walking or dogs for us a dog walker would be relevant but to say it is an obsession is just a little obsessive on your part and not as intelligent as you may think but I guess you are entitled to your subjective opinion as the rest of us. Cool

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Not in the eyes of the person who did the immoral thing but thought it was moral...No we would not be able too...

Very few people are not able to understand universally held moral concepts but just because a person is not able to understand the concept does not mean the concept cant be proven.
If someone is not able to understand mathematical concept does that mean the the math problem can not be proofed by the logical consistency that it was established on?
When something is universally accepted such as addition or a moral concept, "kidnapping and making some one your slave should be easily understood by society.
Sure people will get things wrong, just as getting a math problem wrong but that does not mean that the math concept is not provable.

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@spendius,

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personal reasons

What are these reasons that I desire?

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@reasoning logic,

Artificial birth control as an easy starter.

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@spendius,

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Artificial birth control as an easy starter.

Well sure spendius I think that birth control is a smart move but that is not why I would like to see the church engage in moral philosophy.

When it comes to birth control one of the things that would make people want to ban it is modern day slavery. A friend in need is a friend indeed to a sociopath that is able to sit on his or her ass because of a social structure that left them wealthy. You need more people born into desperate situations so that they can be slaves for you.

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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