52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 06:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It's in Acts Frank. Chap. 13 if I remember.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 06:22 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
It's in Acts Frank. Chap. 13 if I remember.


Acts talks about gentile converts not having to be circumcised--and are exempt from several of the Jewish dietary restrictions. It does not change the morality of the god of the Old Testament.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 06:23 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
The truth is, rl, that you are using Christian moral philosophy whilst at the same time rejecting it because the sexual inhibitions it imposes are a bit inconvenient for your personal needs.


No spendius what I am using is the moral philosophy that came before Christianity and some that came after which you have no interest in studying that I have seen you show so far but who knows maybe you do care but have not yet shared with me your interest in it as of yet.

Sexual inhibitions? Do you mean the way in which I do not get it all the time from my wife in which I wish she would but yet I still love her and would not like to know how life would be without her?
spendius sex is not everything even though us men may wish it was at times.

Quote:
Any new book differing from the NT can only be heading back towards the OT
You do realize that the old testament is indeed a part of our current bible or belief system?

Quote:
Your statue is too big for its pedestal.


I am surprised that you look up at me as you do but do you care if I look at myself as the least among you?

Quote:
It is a form of Momism and what the "men in long black robes" are dedicated to annihilating.


The truth is spendius is that I am not perfect and I say the things I do at times because you seem to have no interest at all in moral philosophy and show no concern about others so I jokingly say things that I should not because I am not perfect. I can only guess that not all of those men in dark robes mean harm but they do help us to understand that even the church itself faces immorality issues.


0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 06:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Something I wrote in another forum:


Old Testament—are its laws applicable to Christianity?


The facts are these: Acts 15 (the material Preacher cites) deals with a meeting that took place in Jerusalem between the presbyters of the community church, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, possibly other unnamed apostles, and possibly lay members of the community. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss a controversy that had arisen among the converted Pharisees of Antioch—who were of the opinion that Christianity was a religion that should be open only to Jews. They were openly distrustful of Paul, who was intent on converting gentiles as well.

In any case, the subject controversy was that the Pharisees were especially troubled by the fact that Paul allowed gentile converts to come into the new religion without being circumcised—a compromise they thought would lead to greater and more troubling (for them) concessions to the law. In fact, the specific item on the agenda appears to have been the non-circumcision of Titus (later, St. Titus)—a Greek gentile convert who was a frequently companion to Paul on his travels among the gentiles

The meeting, an important early Christian meeting, is not only mentioned by Luke in Acts 15, but also by Paul in his letter to the Galatians, chapter 2 (particularly verses 1-10.)

Both Acts and Galatians indicate that the main instigation for the meeting was the question of whether or not the act of circumcision was a necessary requirement for gentile converts to the newly formed religion. The question of whether dietary restrictions should be imposed was quickly included…and while there are some differences of opinions as to how that last part was resolved, the “minutes” of the meeting (actually a letter to the Christian community in Antioch) indicate that some dietary obligations remained in effect.

The group, in the letter, invokes the agreement of The Holy Spirit in the decision. Circumcision, it was decided, was definitely NOT a requirement for membership. The dietary resolution has some minor ambivalence. Galatians seems to indicate that no dietary restrictions were required of the new gentile converts, or at least, none are specifically mentioned. Acts 15: 23-29 specifically states that the letter which outlined the results of the deliberations included, “…(It is the decision of the Holy Spirit, and ours too, that we will not lay upon you (gentile converts) any burden beyond that which is strictly necessary, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from illicit sexual union. You will be well advised to avoid these things.”

In any case, anyone who reads the material in Galatians or Acts as justification for divorcing Christianity from the Old Testament law really is stretching things a great deal. The deliberations seem to have been almost exclusively confined to considerations of circumcision and dietary laws.

But even if that stretch is deemed proper and reasonable (which intelligent, well-intentioned people can do), there is absolutely no logical way to suppose any perceived divorce from Old Testament law includes the right to suppose that the things that pleased or offended the god of the Bible as indicated in the Old Testament…no longer applied. If an orthodox Jew was obliged to accept that murder and stealing and fornicating and lusting offended the god of the Bible—Christians were also. If an orthodox Jew was obliged to accept that homosexuality offended the god—Christians were also.


NOTE: My personal opinion is that the best guess that can be made about the Bible is that it is a self-serving history of the early Hebrew people interspersed with a fanciful religious mythology. My opinion is that the best guess that can be made about the religious aspects of the Bible is that the people writing the material—the people inventing the god—put their prejudices into the mouth of the god they invented. Almost all of the anger, hatred, and prejudice against homosexuals today has their genesis in the biblical mythology—and has absolutely no place in the hearts and minds of people supposedly as intelligent as we. It is my opinion that the unwarranted prejudice against homosexuals should end not because people are able to justify not accepting the more obviously silly ravings of a mythical god…but because we, as an intelligent and basically fair species, should see such prejudice for the ignorance it is.


Zarathustra
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 06:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I am sure this isn't the correct answer either but you can still use it to help kill some time.

Matthew 5:38-48
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. ’But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 06:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Good stuff Frank.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I was merely pointing out to Reasoning that he doesn't seem to like God the way He was in the Old Testament but the fact God deals with us differently in the New Testament doesn't seem to mean much to him.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:31 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I was merely pointing out to Reasoning that he doesn't seem to like God the way He was in the Old Testament but the fact God deals with us differently in the New Testament doesn't seem to mean much to him.


I love the moral philosophy of Jesus in the new testament.

Do you love this or does it not strike home with you at all?

Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:41 pm
@reasoning logic,
Sorry, not my cup of tea for music...................no offense.

So, you already knew about Jesus moral philosophy but yet you wanted to say what you did which sparked this conversation with you? Interesting.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:46 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
The bible and those who promote it are promoting delusional thinking even they do not realize it.

If I were to promote slavery and the capture of young virgin girls in time of war so that I can make them my sex slaves and their off spring my laboring slaves would I not be promoting a delusion when it comes to moral philosophy?

What is a "delusion"? And what is "truth"? Doesn't everything need a belief to know what they are? And aren't they all subjective thoughts?

So if people do not even realize that they have beliefs, how could they KNOW if they are delusions? Or Truth? They can't...

And once you realize you have a belief...Then the whole position of atheism craps the bed...

And has no leg to stand upon, and has no logical positioning, at all...

But people just "believe" that it does...Just like others "believe" that a God is correct...Or real...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:47 pm
@Arella Mae,
Welcome back to the thread Arella! Wink Very Happy
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:48 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Thanx!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 07:54 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Sorry, not my cup of tea for music...................no offense.


No offense taken, thank you for your honesty and I am like you in that way myself, I have a hard time enjoying what other people find to be good listing. Smile

Quote:

So, you already knew about Jesus moral philosophy but yet you wanted to say what you did which sparked this conversation with you? Interesting.


Please share with me what exactly that I said that you found to be offensive so that I can share my view point in more detail, if you are interested in hearing my viewpoint.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:00 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
What is a "delusion"?


People who think that they can fly like super man

Quote:
what is "truth"


People who understand that they can't.

Quote:
So if people do not even realize that they have beliefs, how could they KNOW if they are delusions? Or Truth? They can't...


Well if you find someone who thinks that they can fly like super man ask them your question and then try and frame your own conclusion from their response.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:01 pm
@reasoning logic,
How could you know what either of those two things are, if you do not "believe" that you do "believe"? Or if you do not "believe" you are correct about what you "believe"?

Can you think of another way of thinking? Or knowing? Or believing? that anything is correct "without believing" that it is?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:04 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
How could you know what either of those two things are, if you do not "believe" that you do "believe"? Or if you do not "believe" you are correct about what you "believe"?


I bet you know the answer to your tangled web question don't you?

Quote:
Can you think of another way of thinking? Or knowing? Or believing? that anything is correct "without believing" that it is?


Can you think of a better way of tangling a question than what you did? Honestly?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
You deflected what I have asked you...

So if some people believe that they can fly...And others do not...Is it not the belief that a person has, that says whether or not they "think" it is a delusion or truth? If it is not, what would you call that? And "before" being able to test it, would you not have to have a belief? Or know what you think about it? So that you can test it?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I bet you know the answer to your tangled web question don't you?

How could you be certain if something is a delusion, or truth to you...If you "do not believe" that you have a "belief" about whatever it is you think may be delusional or truth?

And if you have no beliefs, Why would there be any good reason that anything is delusional or truth, at all? Unless you can come to understand that you need to be able to have "beliefs" about whatever is in question?

And if someone is not willing to have beliefs about it....Why would anyone trust what that person thinks about the thing in question? Or how would anyone else be able to know that they can understand what either of the two positions actually are?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:09 pm
@reasoning logic,
If you are aware of Jesus and his teachings then you are well aware of the fact God does not deal with us in the same manner that he did in the Old Testament so I have to wonder why you would even bring it up.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2012 08:16 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
So if some people believe that they can fly...And others do not...Is it not the belief that a person has, that says whether or not they "think" it is a delusion or truth? If it is not, what would you call that? And "before" being able to test it, would you not have to have a belief? Or know what you think about it? So that you can test it?


It is cool if you believe that some people can fly like super man Spades. But I would also have to say the same thing that I say to Frank.

Can you prove that there is not a couple of invisible elves going at it on both sides of your head? No you can not so in reality you think that it is possible that there could be two invisible elves giving you a screwing in your ears because you can not prove that they are not. I am correct ?
 

Related Topics

Atheism - Discussion by littlek
The tolerant atheist - Discussion by Tuna
Another day when there is no God - Discussion by edgarblythe
church of atheism - Discussion by daredevil
Can An Atheist Have A Soul? - Discussion by spiritual anrkst
THE MAGIC BUS COMES TO CANADA - Discussion by Setanta
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 10/05/2024 at 10:19:58