Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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And what do you call it when the person thinks that something is proof or can be proven?

Well I am not certain but a peer review may shine a lite on the matter to one degree or another.

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what do you call it when they decide to test to see and alter whether it is true or not?

Alter? Do you mean like when someone changes the facts at hand?

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Is this a leap to you or not?

Well if they alter the facts then it does seem like a dishonest leap.

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So then atheism can not be proved true?

Are you suggesting that people that do not believe in a God can not be proven true?

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Just as a theism can't be?

Theist do exist so I am not sure what you mean.

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That is my whole point...So what differentiates what is true or not? Or Proven, or Evidence if not a leap of faith that it is, even if it could be wrong?

I am dumb founded by your questioning but please do not take it that I am calling you dumb. Again ask three or less questions at a time and I will address them. Please do not try and make them multiple questions. be precise and to the point.

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Those are beliefs mate...Anyway you try to reword them...

Why do I have to believe in my opinions ideas and understandings? Why can I not be uncertain about them?

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I have a Muslim friend who said pretty much the same thing.

Then why did you tell me that no 2 people are identical?

Do you think that you are identical to a Muslim?

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Do you believe we all similar? Or Do you believe we are all different?

Similar not identical.

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If we are the same...How can we even be different? Or to your point, why is he a Muslim? And I am a Christian? And if we are all different...Then It is almost impossible, if it even is, I will end up like you or your friend....

I think that I should have gave you enough info to understand my point of view but if you need more keep it simple. Wink

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I did what you asked now I hope that you might give me the same time. I asked Frank if he thought a video I had shared had any value to him and I also included that I did not think it had any value to you.

He did not respond but you did and being that you are suppose to be my friend I would at least thought that you would have responded about it but you did not. It was the most important video that I shared all month but you had no interest in what seem to be important to me " why?

Here it is again, It is about empathy if you care.

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@reasoning logic,

I will watch your video mate...I have told you before why I have not watched them...And in the other atheist/theist thread we are in right now...I am sure you remember me telling you how I felt about that Reilly, Stewart debate? Once you told me what your interest was? I am not sure why you think it is not an interest to me, or that I am not interested in your things of value...Cause it is not true...I did not respond...Because I saw no indications that you told me what your interest in asking me to watch was...

If you had done that...I do not remember mate...I am sorry, I will watch the video...I want to go back to see what your interest was...

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@reasoning logic,

What I meant was, what would you call it when someone thinks that something is true? But It has not yet been proven? Do you think they need to have faith in it? Or take a leap in trying to prove that whatever they think is true, is?

Second part...When I said alter I meant try to change the current state it is in...Not proven to proven...

Third part...Not alter, I apologize if I said the wrong word...Change the state at which a claim is currently in...

Fourth part...I am saying if theism's can not be proven true, and atheism is not a belief...Like I claim it is...Can you prove to me how it is correct? and not a belief?

Fifth part...You said theism's not theists...I am saying that I agree that theism's cant be proven true, because it requires faith...I agree that theist can be proven true...Can you prove to me that atheism can be proven true, so that I can see it is not a belief like I claim that it is?

Seventh part...You can be uncertain if you would like too...But I am saying that if you have opinions, understandings etc...Those are beliefs to me...And even being uncertain requires a belief to think you are uncertain...Do you disagree?

Eighth...No I do not think we are identical...So if we are not identical...why would you say that I could end up like you? Or your Muslim friend?

Ninth...I agree similar not identical...So It would not be possible for me to end up just like you or your friend...

I tried to make it as simple as I could...But It will take some time for me to start to condense things....

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@reasoning logic,

I watched your video mate...And I think this gentleman had many interesting things to take into consideration...That EVERY US Citizen could learn from...

He had me with a lot of what he said...Till it seemed to me that he was stretching the truths...To try to pin a lot of the problems of the US solely on Christianity...And I think that is not being intellectually honest to say the least...And I am sure I have said this many times before...But will say it again...People who use God to justify evil acts are not Christains...There is no such things as a Holy War...These warriors trying to kill Muslims don't know this Christian God...Nor anyone who does not understand that Jesus came as a man of peace....And to imitate it as much as they possibly could...These people who do these things are worse off than not knowing this God...at all...

What could be done to change this? I am not sure, abondoning Christianity all together would not solve this too me...And that is why I say he is stretching the truths...If people are guilty of going against what they claim they do in the name of this God...And Christianity is here....Then punish these people for being false believers or something...But the religion itself does not need to be fully abolished...As there are just as many faithful ones out there as well....Who contribute in ways that he never spoke about...

And I believe that whatever religions reign here, or even atheism for that matter, if in the future...There will be the same exact kinds of problems and situations...Because it is a belief...That causes indifferences just like religions do...So it is not Christianity that is to blame but the wolfs in sheeps clothings that are...Or any other form of belief or lack of belief that is embraced here...Till a solution comes out to directly stop people who contort the words of religion, or extort them etc...

Till then, the only way that the situation would change, is if everyone was an Agnostic...But people owe it to themselves to be honest with themselves as well...And if they have beliefs or lacks...They can't pretend to be something they are not...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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He had me with a lot of what he said...Till it seemed to me that he was stretching the truths...To try to pin a lot of the problems of the US solely on Christianity...And I think that is not being intellectually honest to say the least..

I do not think that was his intent "His intent was to get you to step into their shoes and see it from their perspective, he even said that not all Christians are that way but many of them on the other side don't know that.

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What could be done to change this? I am not sure, abondoning Christianity all together would not solve this too me...And that is why I say he is stretching the truths.

I do not think that his intent was to get people to abandon their religion but rather abandon their preconceived notions about other people.

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@reasoning logic,

I think that he is right.

I can't speak for Americans as I am not one obviously.

But, I can visualise that when we see American Soldiers pictures, that have been killed, or Australian for that matter. "Alot" of people, automatically feel for the family..

Alot of veterans, have nightmares for the rest of their lives, some become drunks, some commit suicide, none wanted any of these wars. We hear it all the time. But, it seems we only ever hear it from Americans/Australians.

Very few, even comprehend whether or not the person who killed that Soldier, will go through anquish in the same way. They are just the people targeted and they are the people who we are led to believe started the War and so, people believe they should die and even seem to be happy when the other Country has deaths from this war.

I honestly, absolutely detest these types of pictures of American/Australian soldiers showing their captives, and off course we know what is going to happen next. And, I agree, not many people look at those men and think, well you were fighting for your own cause, your own belief, or against the greed of the World trying to take away what was once yours, you poor souls.

I also agree that the Government, purely act on their own wealth and if threatened then they act. We all knew what Sadam got away with for years and years and then was sought upon like a Dog, once he crossed the line of greed himself.. Yet he was allowed to do so much for so long.. And, the Government tried to hide that factor ...

These pictures of capturing and murdering and yes, that is what is is, these people when they created them in reality, is crap.

That's my opinion.

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@reasoning logic,

I dont remember so I will ask you directly...Did he say that Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics who go to war to kill other people in the American society...Also need to see things from another perspective or look at things from the other side? Or abondon their preconcieved notions?

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@reasoning logic,

First part...If that is what he is saying...Then I agree with you/him...Cause these people who do this are not Christians...And it would not matter what or who they say they are...They are doing evil...

Second part...If that is what he is saying I would have to agree with you/him...That whatever you may be...Whether Atheist or Christian...Or anything in between...If you have these preconcieved notions that this type of evil is good...Then I agree they should abondon them...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I dont remember so I will ask you directly...Did he say that Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics who go to war to kill other people in the American society...Also need to see things from another perspective or look at things from the other side? Or abondon their preconcieved notions?

No, But you do agree that they should do the same as well? He was addressing an English audience so I do not think that he was trying to address people who speak a different language but I do think that he is empathic and would like for all people of different languages to understand his point of view.
If you are able to speak in many tongs I would think that he may be grateful if you could convey his message to them as well.

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@reasoning logic,

Do I think that Christianity plays a role or big role in this?

Only in the fact that the head up wolf in sheeps clothing will use anything against anyone to try to get them to be brainwashed or extort what they believe so that they will kill or murder people for unjust reasons...

Just like these head up guys would also extort other Muslims that the Qu'ran says to do this...

Or say to an atheist it is progressing humanity, Or evolution if they thought it would make this person a killer...

It is the people taken advantage of's resposibility to realize it is nonsense...And that there beliefs, lack of beliefs do not depict this type of lifestyle...

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@reasoning logic,

Maybe he should try to spread his message to everyone in the US or World...who fights for these reasons? And have his messages translated so that every belief, lack of belief understands?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Just like these head up guys would also extort other Muslims that the Qu'ran says to do this...

Ryan I hope that you can feel the I love I have for you and Muslims that I do not know as a brother but I will be honest I do think that the books that we have may be the best that there were at the time but I do have to ask you "could it possibly true that the Koran, king James bible and the Joseph Smith books could have some things incorrect in them? He is not targeting religion but rather our preconceived notions about other people.

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@reasoning logic,

Don't you think that there are atheists who are brainwashed into killing because it is progressing humanity to do so? Or the process of evolution to weed evil people out? In these Armed Forces? What does it matter if I think these books have something incorrect in them or not? If it is not religion he is targeting...then it cant be religion as the reason why it happens...atheists must do this also...and it does not matter what these books say....It is the people themselves...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Don't you think that there are atheists who are brainwashed into killing because it is progressing humanity to do so? Or the process of evolution to weed evil people out? In these Armed Forces?

Atheists often get reality wrong just as people who have beliefs.

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What does it matter if I think these books have something incorrect in them or not?

Please tell me why it would matter to you Ryan. Is it OK if the information is somewhat wrong?

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@reasoning logic,

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Atheists often get reality wrong just as people who have beliefs.

So you are saying that atheists may also be brainwashed and need to be more empathetic? I agree that everyone... could/and should...regardless of beliefs or lacks...

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Please tell me why it would matter to you Ryan. Is it OK if the information is somewhat wrong?

I already told you...It does not make a difference if it is or is not...I think it is what people decide what these books say that matters...Or makes a difference...Because there are people who preach them but do not kill...And there are ones who think they can....It is their morality that matters not what actually gave them morality itself...

So the better question would be, not if these books are wrong...But if there is a better way of teaching them? Or if there is a better book itself? Will atheism, Scientology ever make one? And will it be better?

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@FOUND SOUL,

Nice to hear you Found! I hope you are doing well! Wink

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@reasoning logic,

Don't you honestly think that a book is just a book? Regardless of what your Muslim friend says that it is? And it is what each individual person does with the information that makes a difference? And decides what the book is and what it means?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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So the better question would be, not if these books are wrong...But if there is a better way of teaching them? Or if there is a better book itself? Will atheism, Scientology ever make one? And will it be better?

Well I think that the bible is a bunch of books or ideas that people had and they thought that these ideas were empirical and came from up high.
It was like a science back in the day and it was all they understood but today we have many other science books and we know that some of the information in these books is incorrect and will change over time, so yes I do think that there are better books out there. There are books out there that explain reality a little closer to the truth than the bibles that are out there.

When you have a book that is taught that it is perfect book you will have a whole lot of people who are going to have a hard time realizing a new truth when it comes their way.

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@reasoning logic,

But then it really has nothing to do with the book itself, but the people like I said I think it is...So there really is no reason to believe that these other books...Are better than the religious ones...But that people who use these books act different...Or do you think that if people start making mistakes with these better books, it was the books fault? If not, why would it be a religious books fault?...Even if it is taught to be perfect...? Do you think that people who embrace them owe it to themselves to understand what the book may mean compared to what they think it does or have been taught?

1 Reply

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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