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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 10:38 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Quote:

If we talk about things for which we have sound evidence for then things change. Example would logic lead you to believe that a NASA rocket engineer's knowledge may mean nothing at all when it comes to rockets?


Quote:
Why does it have to change? Who says that it should? Why is it deemed OK to change? Why is it thought that others should also embrace this thinking?



It changes because we go from believing to understanding what makes thrust. We could believe that God will send down angles from heaven and lift a rocket into space but it probably will not take off. Sound evidence should always take precedence to beliefs.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:10 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I formulated my reply so it came from me, not trying to dismissing that everything about us is connected to others.

Good, I like this answer...Not that you have to please me or anything...But I am just glad that you did what I said I would like to see...I can already tell the rest of your reply is your own thinking...And not something you accepted in your own thinking from someone else, that you had not challenged with Skepticism, or beliefs...



Quote:
It is kind of hard to reject something that you see no evidence for existence.

How can they honestly have a difference that is similar to a psychosis then?

They only can, if atheism is similar to a belief...Or if a rejection of this being, would cause you to think similarly as a theist would...Even though atheists do not think that they currently do this....Otherwise, there simply can not be either, from one of the either 2...But it is something that goes different in that persons mind...And it would make no difference if it was theistic based or atheistic...itself...Which means to me...That a theistic psychosis, or anything an atheist can experience is not a difference...that distorts reality...But must help them..."in my opinions"

Quote:
Well I am not sure why you would be interested in this but I will give it a shot.

I could be wrong about this but just as some theist believe they have been abducted by alien so may have some atheist. Keep in mind that I could be wrong about atheist being abducted by aliens because I have never heard of such a thing.

Maybe I should use a condition such as schizophrenia that affects both theist and atheist alike. Higher criteria people? I guess you would be referring to someone like Steven Pinker, David Eagleman or maybe Patricia Churchland.

I personally do not know of any material on the subject of atheist having mental illness from anyone I think has outstanding research but there are common people like myself that share their own experience of schizophrenia and their view points on the matter.

If you truly do want to see closely as I see, then take the time and read or watch the things I share with you.

These are some atheist who suffer from schizophrenia.

How I feel as a Schizophrenic Atheist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/v180u/how_i_feel_as_a_schizophrenic_atheist/


Like I said up top..."in my opinions" I can already tell this is your own thinking, which I am glad you decided to show me...Since I directly asked you...I do not even have to read the information to know it is from you...It is difficult to explain...But it is all explained in the way that you talk...But since I asked you, and you explained, I am gonna read it right now...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
It changes because we go from believing to understanding what makes thrust. We could believe that God will send down angles from heaven and lift a rocket into space but it probably will not take off. Sound evidence should always take precedence to beliefs.

What would you actually say, if this God did this one day?

Do you think it is a dangerous game, to think that atheism is similar to theism's in ways...

But believe or think this God can not exist because it will not validate itself? When it had said that it never would do it? And will not lift a rocket into space, but this evidence explains how man can do this? And not what a God could or could not do anyways...As every believer will tell you...no one would really know that answer...And a God could be the reason why a man invented rockets, and what thrust even is? Correct? Or is this not possible, as this has not been validated either?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:22 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
But since I asked you, and you explained, I am gonna read it right now...


Thank you for reading what I shared with you Ryan, I think that you might find that atheist have also experienced similar experiences as you. "not identical because we are all different and no one is identical to you not even another theist

I know that this is not the type of music that you have shared with me in the past but I was curious if it was moving to you?

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:24 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
What would you actually say, if this God did this one day?


Then I would only guess that I would be a believer.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:35 pm
@reasoning logic,
Thanks for the read...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:41 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Thank you for reading what I shared with you Ryan, I think that you might find that atheist have also experienced similar experiences as you. "not identical because we are all different and no one is identical to you not even another theist

Well I must admit mate...I do not see what I experience is similar to what any of those atheists have said they deal with...mate, but it was interesting to read...I respect the fact, you believe or think I have these differences... Similar to what they do...But there is no easy way for me to explain how I think we are different...

Quote:
I know that this is not the type of music that you have shared with me in the past but I was curious if it was moving to you?

I respect the fact of why you are asking me to listen to it...But since I do not feel that what I experience is the same thing...I do not need to listen to this music, in order to help me in some sort of way, that these other people suffer from...That you think we are similar in ways in...

But because you would like to know my opinion, from your own thinking...I will tell you what I think about it...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:48 pm
@reasoning logic,
It was not a bad song mate...I can see why people may be moved by that song...

It is inspirational...

It had some nice words in there of inspiration and what not...But it is not really the type of music that I like to listen too myself...Though I do not think it was a bad song or anything...And do not mind a tune from pretty much any artist...

Thanks for the listen...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 02:48 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Well I must admit mate...I do not see what I experience is similar to what any of those atheists have said they deal with...mate, but it was interesting to read...I respect the fact, you believe or think I have these differences... Similar to what they do...But there is no easy way for me to explain how I think we are different...


I can respect what you think but it would be nice if you could give it your best shot to the below quote of yours.

Quote:
there is no easy way for me to explain how I think we are different.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 03:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
If I was to try to explain it easily liked you had asked me to try to do...

With these experiences I have...

I do not suffer from them...

They are blessings...

They seem to help me, And not take control over my life...

They are not things that make me suffer...And make my life more difficult to realize reality, or non...Which seems to be the major, understandings of myself, as to how they see these things, And why they believe they are different, or have an illness....etc...And Why they would be interested to see a doctor or take meds. to help them with their problems...etc...

But enables me to understand things at a higher level than I ever could...And is very Beneficial...

So whether it is truly an illness or not, it does not affect me the same way as anything you have said in the past...About theists or atheists...So to me, it does not matter much anyways...If it is helping me...Which it always has been...And it does not affect me in ways that are harmful...There is no legitimate reason for me to take any of those steps to actually try to stop or block these things from continuing to happen....If it is even possible for me to stop God...

And just by someone telling you this...That you suspect are similar...Should tell you they are not the same things...And cant be...Because if they were, it is not that I would even have to defend how something bad could be good in my eyes...or anything...But that, if I am able to understand what you are saying to me...And can honestly say that I understand but feel different...We can't be the same or have similar things....Because a large portion of those who have these differences, can not tell the difference between, and that suffering is why they feel they need meds or doctors etc...Like I have said above...

Though I understand you said not everyone is the same...Not even theists...

I think I am completely different, than everyone who you think has these issues...Whether they are an atheist, or theist...

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 03:14 pm
@reasoning logic,
Hey Logic, take a shot mate!

See if you can guess this one...It is probably harder than the last one though mate...

I did not even realize how hard it may be...Till I really thought about it...myself, after making it up...

http://able2know.org/topic/201971-1
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 03:17 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
With these experiences I have...

I do not suffer from them...

They are blessings...

They seem to help me, And not take control over my life...


OK so you seen where atheist also believed in God some times but how do you find yourself different from them? Is it because you always believe in a God?
How are these atheist different than you in the way you think?


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They are not things that make me suffer...And make my life more difficult to realize reality,


Are you 100% sure about this and if so could you elaborate how your thinking is empirically true?

Quote:

But enables me to understand things at a higher level than I ever could...And is very Beneficial...


Do you think that atheists are unable to think that this is true sometimes their self?

Quote:
Though I understand you said not everyone is the same...Not even theists...

I think I am completely different, than everyone who you think has these issues...Whether they are an atheist, or theist...


So you do agree with what I said, "no one is identical to you?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 03:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
OK so you seen where atheist also believed in God some times but how do you find yourself different from them? Is it because you always believe in a God? How are these atheist different than you in the way you think?

I can't answer that, as I do not think like they do...And can not understand how they would believe in God...But be an atheist...as well

Quote:
Are you 100% sure about this and if so could you elaborate how your thinking is empirically true?

There is no way for me to prove that to you for your own satisfactions...You would have to trust me, or believe it is incorrect...As it requires faith to find God himself...You know this already...

Quote:
Do you think that atheists are unable to think that this is true sometimes their self?

I do not know, can they? What is beneficial to them? Hearing God, and being an atheist, seems to me, that it does not help them, but only impacts that part of distorting reality like you have said you believe that it does...

Quote:
So you do agree with what I said no one is identical to you?

I am not sure that anyone is Identical to anyone else...If that is what you mean...As far as people who have this illness...And them not being the same, I would have to trust you, or read their experiences to come to a solid conclusion about their experiences...mate...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 03:37 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I can't answer that, as I do not think like they do...And can not understand how they would believe in God...But be an atheist...as well


Maybe you need to reread some of their post so that you can understand why they think God is real sometimes?


Quote:
There is no way for me to prove that to you for your own satisfactions...You would have to trust me, or believe it is incorrect...As it requires faith to find God himself...You know this already...


Do you think that it could be possible for these atheist to come to the same conclusion that you did some times?


Quote:
I do not know, can they? What is beneficial to them? Hearing God, and being an atheist, seems to me, that it does not help them, but only impacts that part of distorting reality like you have said you believe that it does...


Ryan just as you have shared your experiences with me I am sharing with you how some atheist see reality at times.

Quote:
I am not sure that anyone is Identical to anyone else...If that is what you mean...As far as people who have this illness...And them not being the same, I would have to trust you, or read their experiences to come to a solid conclusion about their experiences...mate...



Maybe I have it wrong but I see no evidence that indicates that anyone of us are identical.


Quote:

I do not know, can they? What is beneficial to them?



Read their quotes and find more sources and I am willing to bet money that there are times when atheist themselves think this. Surly not all atheist but some probably have and do at times.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 04:13 pm
@reasoning logic,
Mate, I understand you opinions, views and concerns...I really do...And it is cool with me if you believe I have these differences or have some sort of problem like you believe they do...As I am not gonna stop being your friend, and I see no reason why you would chose to do that either...

We are not gonna agree here, because we do not see this the same...

You are not really looking for me to have parallels...But I think a part of you would like me to acknowledge something I am not going to do, because I do not believe it is the same thing, as what you have said, showed me in videos, and what I read from those posts...And I have told you why...But I almost feel like you would like to be right about this...Because it would prove to you, that what you believe I have, is the same as what they do...Although we are not the exact same...

I am telling you that one way or another, I am not sure how they view things and deal with things, because I see my experiences much different...As they are not the same to me...

And I understand your views about the distortion of reality, and how it can be problems...And I am telling you I understand what you are saying, and I think that this does not happen...And have explained why...

So you can only trust me, or you can only believe I am incorrect in my distorted reality thinking...

But by me saying what I have about how I understand and such, should show you, that no matter if you try to link the 2, if they are not the same, or equal, it can't be done...

And if I say it does not hinder me, that is all that is important? Correct? And it should not really matter if I have a difference or do not...Unless it becomes a problem...Has it?

And once again, even if I was a person with a difference...If you are not willing to take my word about my own experiences, and are interested in telling me how I could be right or wrong and why, and you do not experience it yourself, but believe that I do...There is no reason to continue to talk about it...I think by me saying things to you, you could see how they do not seem to be the same...But how you may have an interest in trying to make them seem that way...Though I am sure you do not wish for anyone to actually be sick...But people do also like to be correct at times...Where they do not realize these kinds of things, and this too distorts reality...And I would never say that you have a difference yourself...Get my point?

Even if it is true, there should be no reason to continue to talk about it, unless you are trying to get at something more than just trying to help...

And if you are not willing to trust what I have to say about it, though you think I have it, and you do not believe that you do...It is pointless to even take the time to explain how and why I believe they are not the same...So either one way, neither of us really know...Or 2, I do, but you seem to still not like what you are hearing...As I am telling you how I see it different and why...And you seem to be trying to draw parallels that are not currently there...And then it seems like is is more than a general interest of concern...

I respect your opinions...But I disagree...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 04:44 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Mate, I understand you opinions, views and concerns...I really do...And it is cool with me if you believe I have these differences or have some sort of problem like you believe they do...As I am not gonna stop being your friend, and I see no reason why you would chose to do that either...


Even though we may disagree I find it fascinating that we are still able to be friends. Very Happy

Quote:
You are not really looking for me to have parallels...But I think a part of you would like me to acknowledge something I am not going to do, because I do not believe it is the same thing, as what you have said, showed me in videos, and what I read from those posts...And I have told you why...But I almost feel like you would like to be right about this...Because it would prove to you, that what you believe I have, is the same as what they do...Although we are not the exact same...

I do think that we all would like to be right but I do realize that we may be wrong sometimes. Do you think this same way about there being a God or do you think that you are empirically correct about there being a God?

Quote:
And I understand your views about the distortion of reality, and how it can be problems...And I am telling you I understand what you are saying, and I think that this does not happen...And have explained why...


Does this also include the distortions that the atheist experience or only what you think is distortion?


Quote:
And if I say it does not hinder me, that is all that is important? Correct? And it should not really matter if I have a difference or do not...Unless it becomes a problem...Has it?


It has not became a problem for me do you think that the atheist that I shared with you might have some sort of problem?

Quote:
So you can only trust me, or you can only believe I am incorrect in my distorted reality thinking...


Do you think that I should also except what the atheist say when they think that they were in a delusional state of mind?

Quote:
But by me saying what I have about how I understand and such, should show you, that no matter if you try to link the 2, if they are not the same, or equal, it can't be done..



Please explain how you know this to be true.

Quote:
And once again, even if I was a person with a difference...If you are not willing to take my word about my own experiences, and are interested in telling me how I could be right or wrong and why, and you do not experience it yourself, but believe that I do...There is no reason to continue to talk about it...I think by me saying things to you, you could see how they do not seem to be the same...But how you may have an interest in trying to make them seem that way...Though I am sure you do not wish for anyone to actually be sick...But people do also like to be correct at times...Where they do not realize these kinds of things, and this too distorts reality...And I would never say that you have a difference yourself...Get my point?


I do not get your point completely but I do value what you share.

Quote:
I respect your opinions...But I disagree...


I respect you too. Very Happy
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 05:38 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Do you think that it could be possible for your moral guide to come from a higher source? Could this higher source be you? This is a two minute video.


0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 06:57 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Even though we may disagree I find it fascinating that we are still able to be friends.

Same here mate... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Quote:
I do think that we all would like to be right but I do realize that we may be wrong sometimes. Do you think this same way about there being a God or do you think that you are empirically correct about there being a God?

I would have to say that in my honest opinions...I do believe that I am wrong at times, just like everyone else...But I do not believe that I am wrong about the existence of a God...But it is not possible to empirically prove it to someone else who does not believe that a God exists...And I am not really even sure that I could comprehend why they would chose to even have debates about Gods....unless atheism is a belief...

Quote:
Does this also include the distortions that the atheist experience or only what you think is distortion?

I am not sure mate...As I do not know what their experiences truly are, as I can not experience it myself...And I believe that we are not the same...I do not know that I believe it is distortion one way or the other, like you seem too...When you can not experience what you believe a psychosis is...And I personally believe that may not be being self-honest myself....


Quote:
Do you think that I should also except what the atheist say when they think that they were in a delusional state of mind?

Why would you accept what they say? If you would not trust what I have said? And you believe we are the same? The answer is because what they say seem to fit in with the way you think and believe...And that is not being self honest, if you believe I have one myself...Either it is different....Or you have to be wrong...no offense...

Quote:
Please explain how you know this to be true.

Read the last remark I have just made above...

Quote:
I do not get your point completely but I do value what you share.
I respect you too.

Same here mate....
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 07:40 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
And I understand your views about the distortion of reality, and how it can be problems...And I am telling you I understand what you are saying, and I think that this does not happen...And have explained why...



Does this also include the distortions that the atheist experience or only what you think is distortion?



Quote:
Quote:

Does this also include the distortions that the atheist experience or only what you think is distortion?

I am not sure mate...As I do not know what their experiences truly are, as I can not experience it myself...And I believe that we are not the same...I do not know that I believe it is distortion one way or the other, like you seem too...When you can not experience what you believe a psychosis is...And I personally believe that may not be being self-honest myself....



The atheists shared what they thought was distorted such as his pillow talking to him and telling him to wake up. He said he burnt his pillow after that another person said that he thought that he was God and the list goes on.

My question to you is, do you think that they may be correct in claiming that they are having delusions at times even though it seems real? And if they take their meds the delusions go away. It seems that sleep deprivation can also be a culprit.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 08:21 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
The atheists shared what they thought was distorted such as his pillow talking to him and telling him to wake up. He said he burnt his pillow after that another person said that he thought that he was God and the list goes on.

I understood what your point was...Before you quoted it again...But none the less, it is cool.....I forget things too...

Quote:
My question to you is, do you think that they may be correct in claiming that they are having delusions at times even though it seems real?

I have no way of knowing if they are delusions or not...As I can not experience what they seem too...Or our experiences are not the same...I would not call my experiences delusions, that need to be challenged so that they are understood, that they are...But seem real...at the time being...

Quote:
My question to you is, do you think that they may be correct in claiming that they are having delusions at times even though it seems real? And if they take their meds the delusions go away. It seems that sleep deprivation can also be a culprit.

I have no idea what their culprits are, and what there solutions could be...

I do not seem to have the same problems, or need the same solutions because I do not have the same problems...

Anything else would be guessing...

I can't say that I could explain what they have, or would need...If I do not know them, or do not have experiences like they seem too, myself...

It would not be self honest for me to pretend that I could...

I guess the best thing you could go on is what they say...

And not what another who does not have these experiences thinks is the problem(s) or solution(s)...Because this seems to be a problem itself, of them not knowing they can have these differences, but not have the same experiences...Or different experiences would require different solutions...

So these people are their own answers...And because someone else says what they think is happening...And what the solutions may be...And others do not agree...Does not make their views or opinions less valid... Remember what you had said...As each person is not identical...And each has their own differences...That cause them to think and believe what is the best way, or the solutions based upon their own differences...Whether they are an atheist or a theist... 2 Cents

What is a delusion? What is Reality? And what would be a solution?

If you can, please give me an example of what you believe these are...How you found out it was not reality...Or was, and what the solution was for you?

And in what way you challenge yourself, so that you can challenge these situations so that you know that this is true to you, even though it may seem to be true and reality at times? Is sleep a problem when this happens?
 

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