Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@reasoning logic,

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Ryan You only need to watch the last part of the first three minutes of this video to see how I hope to view you in the future. At least to one degree or another.

I am quite sure we have, actually discussed this video, in length, in the past...But there is no reason for you to feel this kind of way toward myself...As I never had felt hostility from you in the past, anyways...Have you felt it from me? I would never expect you to say that you feel I do not deserve the hostility that I get, because I have never felt that you had given it towards me...To begin with...I feel that others have....But as you know, you can not control them...And I do not believe they have because they believe I have been deceived, but because they find truth to what I say, that they are not willing to be honest about....And in turn, I have given some hostility...Because at times...I can not be as righteous as I should be...And I get upset knowing they are lying to my face about what we have talked about...But you have almost always tried to be as impartial as you can be...Much more than most I speak to on here...And I do not believe that I would even like you to even do this for me....Because I do not believe that I have been deceived like he says...But what I have said above...I am not looking for sympathy, though I appreciate the gesture...I am more interested in your honesty...

Unless you feel like I am trying to deceive you, or give you hostility...there is no reason for you to have to approach me in this manner in the future....And we should be able to continue to do the same exact we have been....This should explain to you, "in my opinion"...I do not feel like I have been deceived...like this man claims people are...So if I believe this...There is also no reason why I would need you to not be who you are, and be honest, and hold back, or treat me with sympathy...Because since I am acknowledging I do not believe that I have been deceived...There really is no reason to assume that this man, Or anyone else, who feels the way he does...Should do this...If a person says, and admits, they do not feel that they have been, or need the sympathy itself....Other than that, if someone was to do so...Even though it is asked not to be done...That creates more hostility itself...Then any such that had already been there....Or more deception itself, whether directly or in...

Thanks for the gesture...I never felt you had...And I am sorry, if you have felt I have...It is not because of myself feeling like I have been deceived...It is because I have not found a way to cope with dishonesty, in a self-honest way myself....

0 Replies

@reasoning logic,

And, I am sorry to do the perception thing again, because it is clear to me, you had done it...And had not liked the feeling(s) But in any event the above should also "prove" to you, in a non provable way...I am not sick...Nor are others....Or different in a way that you had previously thought they were..."people like me, were or are different" But you can only look inside yourself, to see if you still believe this is true or not...And why...You may still believe that it is...

And furthermore, if you still try to make yourself believe that it is...You are fully capable of knowing how you are trying to get yourself to believe something you do not ultimately believe is true...And why you selectively chose to do so...and why...Without anything to do with me, itself... but 100% your own thinking(s)...And you will think for yourself...And not what I, or others have said, or told you about it, or any other matter...But it will all be your own mind doing the thinking for yourself...To come to the conclusions you need too...And not be perverted by anyone...Including me...

And if you are wondering, all the ways, that I know, all of this, is true...I will explain it for you...To comfort you...

It is because I can perceive it is so, by the way you have told me you feel I have been deceived, but it is really you, who seems to be the one who feels this way...I am not sure if you are upset at other atheists or what not...But since it is not a feeling towards myself...It must not be that you feel that God had lied to you...Because you would have to believe this God exists to do so, and it must be other people you know or talk too...And not me...Though you have told me, you would be more sympathetic, because you feel I have been deceived...It is clear, you really do not believe this is true...But you are projecting how you feel, from what others have told you...

You could be doing so, to test me to see what I would do...Or say...

And the only answer I could give, is to embrace this God, and these feelings you have...And go with it...And ask for sympathy or closure yourself...And if this God does not oblige...You know that they have not deceived you, and neither have I tried to do so....but your own thinking is doing it, internally....

And if this is the case...I can help you out even more if you are interested....

Just a tip though...be as honest as you can be...mate...all the time...It is the fastest way possible......best wishes, and prayers mate!!! Very Happy

And if we continue to do this...I will also post it in ways to keep it between you and I....I promise mate...I am sorry about that...

Though they may understand some...I can tell you, because God was there, from my side...They do not know or understand it all, like you and I do...Since it is between us...

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Why would you think, that a "theistic psychosis'', is, what you think, it is?

Ryan I think that it is true that we all get reality a little wrong at times. I use the term "theistic psychosis'' only to describe the thinking of people who believe in a god and can not show sound evidence for what it is they believe in. Just because a person can be way out there in one field of thought does not mean that they can not be a genius in another.

Quote:

Are you also, open, to possibly being wrong about that?, As you have said, that you, could be, in the above?

I am sure that I have many things wrong to one degree or another but I seem to have a lot of evidence to support the claim I am making on the subject at hand.

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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..I am not sick...Nor are others....Or different in a way that you had previously thought they were..."people like me, were or are different" But you can only look inside yourself, to see if you still believe this is true or not...And why...You may still believe that it is...

I try not to think that you or others are sick but that you have a problem with reality in a area of thinking that concerns Gods. We all get reality wrong at times don't you agree or do you think that reality is something you have never been wrong about?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Here is what I think mate...If you are interested in my opinions...And I am going to keep it between us as much as possible....

It seems to me, that at some point in your lifetime, you decided to stop challenging what you thought was incorrect, and what is correct...And you decided somehow, someway internally, that not challenging, but embracing what everyone else has to say is the best method...to come to your own conclusions...This is not to say you are incapable of doing this thinking upon your own...Because if your mind is strong enough to embrace millions of things you have been exposed to, in order to use this info to formulate an opinion based upon millions of perspectives...then you can flip it all around, and use your own thinking to decide your own thinking upon what millions of people have to say...

I will give you an example

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I think that some of these opinions are way out there but everyone has different beliefs and it is their beliefs that are reality to them. Take for example what I shared with a coworker. "This video's point of view, "the best that I understood it but yet I was able to find a coworker who seemed to relate to how the boxer was thinking.

After you had your opinion about the video...You did not tell this coworker why you agree or disagree...And I think you did not challenge their perspective with Skepticism nor belief...But because you could not answer their point...You auto accepted their position as a valid one, and it went directly into your own thinking, and is now apart of the way you personally think...When it is OK to have an opinion...And either believe they are right or wrong, and why...I don't think you know you do this...And you should, cause that is what makes you, you...

I will give you another example...Most atheists deny a God....but they still argue in favor of having an innate purpose... because if we did not, there is no reason why they even have opinions as to why they are right or wrong...If there is no higher reason, there is also no reason why anyone has an opinion...at all...

The only other possibility is that you are not really an Atheist-Christian but really an Agnostic...Which also makes sense why I have said you sound like one in the past...

But in any event, I tell you all of this so that you can free your mind of thinking everyone's opinions must be as valid as your own thinking just because...And you should be able to think for yourself, as I know you can, like I said above...

And there is no reason why your mind must be perverted by atheists, Agnostics or theists alike...And you should be able to decide what you agree with from Skepticism, or do not...Or do not know...What you do not agree with Skepticism, do not know, or do not agree with...Things you are completely unsure of, if any...Or have rejections of both...Or the things you agree with because of beliefs, do not know, or do not agree with...

And I think the path you are now going down you are realizing this...

And you are not allowing anyone else's mind or thoughts to pervert your own...And that includes me...

But like I said, I am willing and able to help you, if you are interested in doing it...

That is why I said I think I understand you better...

That is what I think you are doing in your own mind...

It sounds like it is being open-minded...As I know you can be...But if you are auto accepting positions other than your own thinking, in a sense, you are allowing millions of others to brainwash you, or pervert your own mind, when you can learn to understand why and how you agree or do not, and why you do agree or don't...And these opinions are your own, and should be more important than anyone else's cause that is what makes you yourself...And what you have to offer...When people ask you about things, they are not interested in what millions have to say, but what YOU have to say...And you are raping your own mind of this ability right now...

Because at some point you must have said to yourself, this is better than to have a rejection or belief...From your own thinking, and I think that is much worse...

Like I said, it is OK to be you, and have a rejection or belief, and then take into account what others have said to be open-minded...So long as the opinion came from you...But if you are accepting their views as valid just because...You are not skeptical of their opinions, nor accept because of beliefs...

And are not freely thinking upon your own, as to why you agree or not...Using Skepticism, or Beliefs, or rejections of both...And then being open-minded about hearing otherwise to help formulate what you believe is correct or not...But as long as you know what you are thinking about it...

I hope this helped you get a good idea of how I see the way you see things mate....

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Ryan I think that it is true that we all get reality a little wrong at times. I use the term "theistic psychosis'' only to describe the thinking of people who believe in a god and can not show sound evidence for what it is they believe in. Just because a person can be way out there in one field of thought does not mean that they can not be a genius in another.

Did you say this to the coworker about the boxing video? Do atheists have this problem as well? (similar, but not a theistic psychosis) How would you describe this difference? I know I have asked before...But Please break it down for me...again...

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I am sure that I have many things wrong to one degree or another but I seem to have a lot of evidence to support the claim I am making on the subject at hand.

OK prove it to me please? ...And tell me how you can prove it...And not what others have to say...I would like to hear what YOUR proof is...If it is someone else, it is not proof...Form you, but what you have accepted as proof from another...Because it selectivity went along with what you feel is correct, just like I said I believe you are doing...

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I try not to think that you or others are sick but that you have a problem with reality in a area of thinking that concerns Gods. We all get reality wrong at times don't you agree or do you think that reality is something you have never been wrong about?

I believe it is totally a possibility, but being an atheist does not dodge this...Even if you say you have a rejection...There are reasons why you still believe things, and things that go into actually having a rejection itself over not knowing anything....Which = no such difference in believers just because of Gods...No such difference in atheists because of deciding factors that they believe things...Or that go into actually having rejections...

So if this is true...Why have a difference concerning Gods, in believers?, and not in atheists? Unless they both are not, but are just the way we think?...Or neither is correct, and no one knows, and we are all Agnostics?

If you are just saying that people have some difference because they chose to either believe, or have rejections...I can agree...I would still not claim these are illnesses, or difference, or a distortion of reality...Because as an atheist says, we will never really know the answer...Which would still point to believers points still make more sense...Which means it can't be a difference that distorts reality...Only the people themselves do this...But polluting their own minds...

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

It seems to me, that at some point in your lifetime, you decided to stop challenging what you thought was incorrect, and what is correct...And you decided somehow, someway internally, that not challenging, but embracing what everyone else has to say is the best method...to come to your own conclusions..

It does not seem as you understand me as well as you think you do. I have understandings about reality and I understand that some of my understandings are incorrect and they continually evolve. I prefer to listen to what everyone has to say about their experience on certain subjects and I decide if what they are sharing has more sound evidence than what I have on the subject. There are many people who are specialist within fields of study and they have a better understanding because of the time they devoted. Just like video gaming "the more experience one has the better they become at it.

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I am sure that I have many things wrong to one degree or another but I seem to have a lot of evidence to support the claim I am making on the subject at hand.

OK prove it to me please? ...And tell me how you can prove it...And not what others have to say..

It is what others have to say that is my evidence for their delusional thinking. If others can not show evidence for their experience then what they are experiencing is subjective even though the cause may be objective such as brain chemistry or other matter.

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

I try not to think that you or others are sick but that you have a problem with reality in a area of thinking that concerns Gods. We all get reality wrong at times don't you agree or do you think that reality is something you have never been wrong about?

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So if this is true...Why have a difference concerning Gods, in believers?, and not in atheists?

Atheists are not the ones claiming that God is real without sound evidence.

Now if atheist start making claims that they have been abducted by aliens and so forth then they themselves would be categorized the same way.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

It does not seem as you understand me as well as you think you do. I have understandings about reality and I understand that some of my understandings are incorrect and they continually evolve. I prefer to listen to what everyone has to say about their experience on certain subjects and I decide if what they are sharing has more sound evidence than what I have on the subject. There are many people who are specialist within fields of study and they have a better understanding because of the time they devoted. Just like video gaming "the more experience one has the better they become at it.

I still think I do mate....no offense at all...I really mean that too...

But it is the same exact way mate...You just worded it in a classier way....

You still chose not to voice your own opinions in some sort of way...Because you feel inclined to believe someone else's, Just because of their criteria...When the fact of the matter is, just because they have this knowledge may mean nothing at all...And in fact could be the ones who are the main contributors of these differences....Am I incorrect about this? Or is it possible I am right? As well as wrong? That is why people want to hear what you have to say...And do not hold the same values as you do about what you selectivity believe that "more criteria" is...in such videos we will say... your views should = a more valid view point of yourself...And help formulate what others with Criteria have to say...and why you agree or not...Otherwise, why even have an opinion? It should not be the other way around...Where you hear their criteria, and that is what you believe is true, because of selective agreement because your not thinking on your own as to how you agree or not, based upon your own opinions before you even watch the video you do...When it should just make you challenge it, or believe it...Not take their words because of criteria..."or higher fields of study"

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

It is what others have to say that is my evidence for their delusional thinking. If others can not show evidence for their experience then what they are experiencing is subjective even though the cause may be objective such as brain chemistry or other matter.

If you did not think of this upon your own it means nothing to me...Because what you find to be higher criteria is subjective itself...Do you see my point? That is why it is necessary to hear your views in either rejections or beliefs in order for one to know how valid these "higher criteria people are" and they can then do this, just by talking and interacting with you yourself...

If they do not...They most likely will not see it the same as you upon any level... And not a soul is gonna look at these people the same exact way you actually do...But everyone will know you for who you are....

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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When the fact of the matter is, just because they have this knowledge may mean nothing at all...And in fact could be the ones who are the main contributors of these differences....Am I incorrect about this? Or is it possible I am right? As well as wrong?

Does this also apply to those who say they have knowledge of a God existing?

If we talk about things for which we have sound evidence for then things change. Example would logic lead you to believe that a NASA rocket engineer's knowledge may mean nothing at all when it comes to rockets?

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Atheists are not the ones claiming that God is real without sound evidence.

Now if atheist start making claims that they have been abducted by aliens and so forth then they themselves would be categorized the same way.

But this is also some sort of "higher criteria person" where you got this from...Is it not?

Why do they even have a rejection of this being if enables you to have a difference? Or not be categorized in a similar way?

Please explain to me in detail how you would call an atheistic Difference? similar to Psychosis, but on the other side? And what some of these higher criteria people had to say about it? And if you can find none, then I would like to hear what YOU think, that has been my whole point...

Do not care if people laugh at you or do not take you serious...I do...And would like to know what YOU think or believe....

Not anyone else right now, nor any expert...Just you and I...

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

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Does this also apply to those who say they have knowledge of a God existing?

They would have to be! It could not be another way...Now, is this then true for these experts as well? If atheism, has these differences also?

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If we talk about things for which we have sound evidence for then things change. Example would logic lead you to believe that a NASA rocket engineer's knowledge may mean nothing at all when it comes to rockets?

Of Course they would...

Why does it have to change? Who says that it should? Why is it deemed OK to change? Why is it thought that others should also embrace this thinking?

Does it mean they would NOT be the ones for which these differences would also be? Yes they would...

If these are both true...

It is the same for believers....So the "experiences" are the higher criteria...And they could be the differences as well...But because that is not valid higher criteria which is subjective to you...Does not make it less valid...

It is only the way you view them...

Higher criteria could be worse could it not be? And lead to more differences? Or is this not possible?

Otherwise, again, why have a rejection or a belief?

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@reasoning logic,

The thing is RL, I get the impression from reading your posts that you've already made your mind up. You post videos that you already agree with, and don't appear to apply any form of critique to those who share your world view, and at the same time dismiss those who do not share that view as being delusional.

You insist on hard evidence in an area where there is no such thing, and where scientists run scared of carrying out any form of research for fear of being mocked by the wider scientific community. I posted this on another thread.

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A Croatia lumberjack claims he started 'enjoying housework and knitting' after he was given a female kidney..

Stjepan Lizacic, 56, from Osijek, is suing his local health authority because he says he's become a laughing stock.

He says his life changed from enjoying heavy drinking sessions with pals to prefering housework after the operation.

He told local newspaper 24sata: "The kidney transplant saved my life, but they never warned me about the side effects.

"I have developed a strange passion for female jobs like ironing, sewing, washing dishes, sorting clothes in wardrobes and even knitting."

He pointed out that before the kidney transplant he would not have been seen dead doing the housework, and expected his wife to do it all, but now found it both relaxing and fulfilling.

He said: "My wife is the only one that is pleased. I do most of the housework now, and I blame the hospital that transplanted me the kidney of a 50-year-old woman instead of a man's kidney."

His wife Radmila added: "If the new femine side to him is confined to housework I am very happy, I only hope he doesn't start looking at other men."

Now this is a prime example of the polarising nature of the debate. One side sees this as proof of the supernatural element present in life, that maybe some feminising influence or remnant of the soul lives on in the dead woman's kidneys. Others dismiss this as being purely a form of the placebo effect, or the manifestation of some deep rooted psychological need on the part of the recipient. As such they dismiss out of hand any suggestion of a supernatural explanation.

The only way we could get hold of hard evidence would be if we had a time machine, and give the recipient a different kidney or tell him the donor was male, or all sorts of other options, and go back in time until we have enough variances and controls so we can come to a conclusion.

Obviously we can't do that, so we're left with a polarised debate where people use their own prejudices to make a judgement, and in a nutshell that's the problem. Idries Shah pointed out in his book on magic that science is the offshoot of magic, and that scientific procedures should be used to test the claims made by those who believe in magic, then we might actually have something approaching 'hard evidence.' Unfortunately that won't happen, because any scientist that does undertake such a study, would lose the respect of their peers and be labelled a quack or pseudo scientist.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

If we talk about things for which we have sound evidence for then things change. Example would logic lead you to believe that a NASA rocket engineer's knowledge may mean nothing at all when it comes to rockets?

Of Course they would...

Now why would you believe that this is not true for "spiritual experiences" And meeting a certain "higher criteria" does not work...As there is no reason to have beliefs, or rejections, as atheists say they do...If it was not equal criteria in the eye of another beholder...And this is based upon what atheists claim...

Why does it have to change? Who says that it should? Why is it deemed OK to change? Why is it thought that others should also embrace this thinking?

I understand what you are saying mate...And I am sorry, if you feel that things got a bit heated...I am sorry mate...But I would like us to be honest...And that includes being who we are...

I just simply do not agree that physical proof = The ONLY way for the most credible evidence...And I do not see how things should just have to change...

That is why I would never embrace atheism, Because they embrace math and science to have a rejection or a belief...And not even Mathematicians nor scientists do this themselves...

It would be the same...If Criminals claimed they had faith....In a Holy God...Is this believable? Not really...

Otherwise, there are no reasons to have beliefs or rejections...We were born Agnostics we would live and die as ones...

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Good to see you mate...I'll be back later...

0 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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But this is also some sort of "higher criteria person" where you got this from...Is it not?

I formulated my reply so it came from me, not trying to dismissing that everything about us is connected to others.

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Why do they even have a rejection of this being if enables you to have a difference?

It is kind of hard to reject something that you see no evidence for existence.

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Please explain to me in detail how you would call an atheistic Difference? similar to Psychosis, but on the other side? And what some of these higher criteria people had to say about it? And if you can find none, then I would like to hear what YOU think, that has been my whole point...

Well I am not sure why you would be interested in this but I will give it a shot.

I could be wrong about this but just as some theist believe they have been abducted by alien so may have some atheist. Keep in mind that I could be wrong about atheist being abducted by aliens because I have never heard of such a thing.

Maybe I should use a condition such as schizophrenia that affects both theist and atheist alike. Higher criteria people? I guess you would be referring to someone like Steven Pinker, David Eagleman or maybe Patricia Churchland.

I personally do not know of any material on the subject of atheist having mental illness from anyone I think has outstanding research but there are common people like myself that share their own experience of schizophrenia and their view points on the matter.

If you truly do want to see closely as I see, then take the time and read or watch the things I share with you.

These are some atheist who suffer from schizophrenia.

How I feel as a Schizophrenic Atheist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/v180u/how_i_feel_as_a_schizophrenic_atheist/

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

The only way we could get hold of hard evidence would be if we had a time machine, and give the recipient a different kidney or tell him the donor was male, or all sorts of other options, and go back in time until we have enough variances and controls so we can come to a conclusion.

There are some things that we may not understand today but over time we will have a better understanding about them.

0 Replies

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