Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@farmerman,

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Fact is the best evidence at that time. Of course facts can change as better means of evidence collection and assessment become available.

Facts cannot change fm.

In the Decline of the West index the entry under "History" fills almost a full column.

A document is a fact. Whether or not it relates to facts is moot. A surviving building or furniture or item of dress or organism is a fact.

"Inside the museums infinity goes up on trial".

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@farmerman,

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Even your "You must believe in Jesus to comment on Christianity" is a copout to unquestioning submittal. Im sorry, I cant live like that, itd drive me nuts to ignore all the stuff that comes our of the divinity and archeology centers.

What is wrong with me saying that? I can't live in honestly thinking that I understand something, or am an intellect about it...Or even know and understand what it even means, if I truly am not one...And never wanted to be one....Again you are putting words in my mouth...Who says that I side step these things? Did I say that? Why would you say it about me? Why would you believe that because I said the above, would = me ignoring the stuff that comes from the divinity and archeology? Did I ever say that I did such a thing? If you honestly believe that you would do this...If you were a believer, that is again fine...But it does not mean that I, or any believer of God Must be doing this, because it applies to you...And it is wrong, in my book, for you to associate my thinking, or actions based upon how you would view it, or how it applies to your own life...When I never said that I actually did such a thing, or thought that way...How about we try sticking to what the other person has said, or not said...And not try to formulate our own conclusions...and manipulate each others words?

Quote:

Way back, early in this thread you took up some denial tp scientific findings that conflicted with your Christian beliefs. I argued a bit but we seemed to go nowhere and truthfully, I got bored because neither you nor i plumbed any new arguments . Ill see hether we can sustain a collegial disagreement without getting personal herein. I have given you my pedigree of Christian "History of my life"
(In actualitymy family history has gone from Judaism in the old country to Orthodox Christian to Roman Catholic in my pparents lifetime, so, wjile I had the benefits of a multi religious heritage, I only had Roman Catholicism to thank for my beliefs and nons. I feel then, quite qualified to discuss the heritage bases of my own journey through and out of Christianity.

It is fine with me if you feel this way...And that is your opinions about them...But then I have my own opinions about them as well...And my opinions should not offend you...And my opinions are, that you never had any kind of faith if you actually dropped it...And I do not believe that you ever understood it, if you were a believer, and dropped your faith...Or you never really wanted to understand or believe it...

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Course you disagree with me, but that does not make your beliefs any more credible than mine.

Again, I do not really care for your critique about how I infuriate people, or bore them...They do plenty just the same to me, and I am not whining about it...

I do not like getting upset, or upsetting other people...

But I know what to expect when I come here to post, or read other peoples reply's...And I take it, so does everyone else...If I ever get truly bored or upset, and can't stand to be here, I am gonna leave...And if you or anyone else feels this way...You do not have an obligation to stay...To please me, or anyone else...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

You've been through all that sort of **** so many times that I have lost count.

What are the "things" you know from God that we don't? God presided over the nearly 4 billion years of life on earth and it was a killing field. Only in the last 2000 years, a blink of the eye, has there been some mitigation and then it is not all that much.

Do you really think God has singled you out to inform you of certain things in all that lot. And, as Jesus said, or is reported to have said, this world is a lightning flash in God's Kingdom.

You are side-stepping that question and it's the only one of any relevance here. You are manipulating like an octopus cat juggling in a greasy, jerking rubber dinghy. And it is focussed entirely on your preciousness.

The Popes, and large numbers of functionaries, are reading what God says off the evidence that is put before them. And have been doing all during the Christian era and making plenty of what we see, anachronistically, as mistakes. And they say what the things are that He says.

It's a bit late in the day for you to step in with something original and especially when it has no substance. God/Evolution/Zeitgeist is presiding over the shanty towns and Wall Street. Over Syria and ladies' coffee mornings. Over hobos in the gutter and the marina in Monte Carlo.

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@spendius,

First, let me ask you a few questions...Because you do not seem to understand how I am answering your questions...Why do you want to know, what God says to me, so bad?

Is it because you actually believe it may be happening?

Or is it because you do not believe that it is?

Or is it because you do not really know what you believe about it?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

It is because I do not believe that it is?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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What is wrong with me saying that? I can't live in honestly thinking that I understand something, or am an intellect about it...Or even know and understand what it even means, if I truly am not one...And never wanted to be one

cause youve spent over 300 pages attempting to sound intelligent on your case. Are you now telling me that your buccal cranial connection is purely symbolic? You dont think when you speak? I do not think you are saying that. I repeat-- YOU ARE trying to at least sound intelligent
in your arguments so are you NOT trying to understand it? We never fully reach an end, always there are many more questions, but you can make a few good guesses based upon your data at hand

Quote:

And my opinions are, that you never had any kind of faith if you actually dropped it...And I do not believe that you ever understood it, if you were a believer, and dropped your faith...

I cant see how you get to this endpoint. I had faith once, it left me as I further read and was investigating evidence and facts derived from the evidence. Thats how we learn stuff. We had beliefs that we later learnt were not supported by facts. New facts supplanted old facts and so on and so on.

How many things did we believe in 1100 AD that we dont believe today
1The atom is "Indivisible"

2diseases are caused by spirits and washing up

3 the sun was in orbit around the earth

4 dragons exist

5 t5here are several "Humours" that control our health

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@farmerman,

I wonder if I'm the only one who gets no further with that post fm.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Why do you believe that people who believe in a God have some type of illness that is completely normal?

Well technically it is not an illness from my understanding but rather just being normal. It seems that when it comes to psychology the norm is when you have more than 50% percent of a population behaving in a certain way then it is called psychological. Surely I can be wrong about this though.

If you want to know why I think a God is not part of reality and that he is not talking to people is because we can do many test on Christians and other believers and see that none of them can prove it.

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@spendius,

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It is because I do not believe that it is?

Now tell me why you think, if I can actually communicate with a God...Why I should even entertain the notion of explaining what he has to say to me...Or to you...If you already do not believe that it is even happening?

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@reasoning logic,

I am more interested in knowing what kinds of illness' you think that atheists suffer from? Since it is natural to believe just as it is to be an atheist...And everyone who believes has some type of Schizo mental problem...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Now tell me why you think, if I can actually communicate with a God...Why I should even entertain the notion of explaining what he has to say to me...Or to you...If you already do not believe that it is even happening?

Look Ryan I am not trying to make fun of you or anything that might seem to be negative but what I am trying to share with you is intellectual honesty the best that I understand it.

The best way that I know of demonstrating logic is threw questioning. Let me try and answer this by rewording your question and ask it to you. OK

Now tell me why you think, if I can actually communicate with an Easter bunny...Why I should even entertain the notion of explaining what he has to say to me...Or to you...If you already do not believe that it is even happening?

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I am more interested in knowing what kinds of illness' you think that atheists suffer from? Since it is natural to believe just as it is to be an atheist...And everyone who believes has some type of Schizo mental problem...

Maybe you did not read the last reply that I made about how it is psychological?

Atheists and Theist suffer from the same illnesses as those in any other group you can think up.

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@farmerman,

And my opinions are, that you never had any kind of faith if you actually dropped it...And I do not believe that you ever understood it, if you were a believer, and dropped your faith...

Quote:

I cant see how you get to this endpoint. I had faith once, it left me as I further read and was investigating evidence and facts derived from the evidence. Thats how we learn stuff. We had beliefs that we later learnt were not supported by facts. New facts supplanted old facts and so on and so on.

It is cool if you did this...And it caused you to change your feelings about God, and religion...But It is simple...You can not expect other people to believe you know what it is all about...If you dropped it...You can not expect people to think of you as an intellect about it...And you can not expect other people to take you seriously that you ever were a believer or had faith...Because it requires you to keep it at all times to be all of those things...And if you ever drop it, for whatever reasons...There is no good reason for anybody to actually believe that you ever did any of those things...Even if you say that you did...Or even if you truly believe that you did...

And other people are not dismissing facts and evidence just because they chose to believe...

I am sorry that you felt that way...And felt that you were doing this...And it was a problem for you...But it does not mean that everyone else who still believes in a God are currently doing this...

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@reasoning logic,

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Now tell me why you think, if I can actually communicate with an Easter bunny...Why I should even entertain the notion of explaining what he has to say to me...Or to you...If you already do not believe that it is even happening?

That would make all the sense in the World if I said this to Spendius...Because he was asking me over and over to explain to him what this Easter bunny was saying to me...But yet, he does not believe that it even is... but keeps asking about it...

When I ask you to explain the Easter bunny to me, but we both do not believe that it is real....you have a point...Till then, if he does not believe God is real, but keeps asking...it is not the same thing...He must believe there is a chance...Or want to know something about something that not even is...

Which means he does not believe it is not real...And it is not the same thing as your Easter Bunny analogy...

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Maybe you did not read the last reply that I made about how it is psychological?

Atheists and Theist suffer from the same illnesses as those in any other group you can think up.

Really? How does an atheist suffer from a theistic psychosis? If there is any such thing?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

When I ask you to explain the Easter bunny to me, but we both do not believe that it is real....you have a point...Till then, if he does not believe God is real, but keeps asking...it is not the same thing...He must believe there is a chance...Or want to know something about something that not even is...

Which means he does not believe it is not real...And it is not the same thing as your Easter Bunny analogy...

Ryan if you were talking about an Easter bunny the way that you have been talking about a God I would ask you to explain why you think the Easter bunny is talking to you and what it is that the Easter bunny is saying to you because I find it interesting that someone may believe this is happening.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Really? How does an atheist suffer from a theistic psychosis? If there is any such thing?

They can suffer from other psychosis, don't you remember the atheist that had the big breast in the back ground that heard voices when he did not take his medicine?

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@reasoning logic,

Reasoning Logic said: "If you want to know why I think a God is not part of reality and that he is not talking to people is because we can do many test on Christians and other believers and see that none of them can prove it."

It can be proven. The proof is in the son of man, the servant of the Lord and the prophet of the Lord. Ask yourself, who did God talk to. He talked to those who served Him. The bible says so. I have posted it. If you want proof walk in the paths of the Lord and keep His ways by doing what is right and just. Here is an example;

It is written in scripture;

"I am Almighty God; walk in my presence and be blameless".

"The Lord is just; he loves righteous works; the upright shall behold his face."

"God is with the generation of the righteous."

" The Lord is the strength of his people; the saving refuge of his anointed."

"For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his works are truthful. 5 He loves justice and right;"

"The Lord is good; blessed are those who take refuge in him."

" The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him incurs guilt."

I am the light of the world ,no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because he will possess the light of life.

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@1Prince,

No harm intended 1Prince and I find you to be a polite person but is this how you approach other scientific explanations?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Ryan if you were talking about an Easter bunny the way that you have been talking about a God I would ask you to explain why you think the Easter bunny is talking to you and what it is that the Easter bunny is saying to you because I find it interesting that someone may believe this is happening.

FM can express his lack of faith/loss of faith quite articulately without once mentioning the Easter Bunny. Why don't you take a leaf out of his book?

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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