52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:18 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
Better be careful of that, you might get attacked on this site for doing that. If you don't spell perfectly or have perfect grammar they will refuse to take you seriously.


FS is lovely, a very pleasant young lady with a heart of gold. She's not an obnoxious opininiated bitch that calls everyone a moron who disagrees with her. Attacking her for her spelling/grammar would be crass and rude.

However, when someone thinks their opininion is so much better than anyone else's, attacks a really nice guy like Spades, and is just foul (note correct spelling) to everyone, then they shouldn't be surprised when their lumbering prose is attacked. If you're going to start calling people morons, you should make sure you don't use cretinous language that would shame a twelve year old.

None of this would really matter if you were just an obnoxious troll, but you've done real harm on this site. The Palestinians are a persecuted people, and you have turned them into a political football for your own selfish, petulant reasons. It's quite disgusting to show such contempt for them, when you're sat in your comfortable American home free from persecution.

Have you done anything at all for the Palestinians other than use them to score cheap points? I am a member of the PSC, I observe the Israeli boycott, and go out of my way to buy Palestinian olive oil, (about the only Palestinian product available.) Have you done anything like that? I would guess not.

The Israeli government/PR machine and Israeli apologists like to portray all criticism of Israel as being rooted in anti-Semitism. I have been called anti-Semitic just for supporting Palestinian human rights. So when a Holocaust denier like you starts talking about Palestine, you're playing right into their hands. ( I have read your posts, you may have modified your stance slightly, but you did start off denying the Holocaust.)

Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages, the Holocaust being an extreme example of that persecution. Just because Israel uses guilt about that persecution to detract from it's treatment of the Palestinians, doesn't mean the persecution didn't happen.

I have spent a long time trying to persuade those people reluctant to criticise Israel of the facts surrounding the occupation. In one fell swoop you have undermined the good work people like myself and Infra Blue have been doing to increase awareness of the horrors of the occupation.

Many members of the Jewish diaspora are very reluctant to criticise Israel, they fear that anti-Semitism will rise up again, and if Israel is not there to shelter them, they will watch their loves ones perish in the gas chambers. This fear is something the Israeli PR machine likes to exploit, so when you start claiming the Holocaust didn't happen/wasn't all that bad, and saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is a moron, you are doing Israel's job for them.

You don't seem to realise the Palestinians are people, they are suffering under a brutal occupation, and you've made that suffering just a little bit worse for your own selfish ends.

You really are beneath contempt.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:23 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Krumple wrote:
Better be careful of that, you might get attacked on this site for doing that. If you don't spell perfectly or have perfect grammar they will refuse to take you seriously.


FS is lovely, a very pleasant young lady with a heart of gold. She's not an obnoxious opininiated bitch that calls everyone a moron who disagrees with her. Attacking her for her spelling/grammar would be crass and rude.

However, when someone thinks their opininion is so much better than anyone else's, attacks a really nice guy like Spades, and is just foul (note correct spelling) to everyone, then they shouldn't be surprised when their lumbering prose is attacked. If you're going to start calling people morons, you should make sure you don't use cretinous language that would shame a twelve year old.

None of this would really matter if you were just an obnoxious troll, but you've done real harm on this site. The Palestinians are a persecuted people, and you have turned them into a political football for your own selfish, petulant reasons. It's quite disgusting to show such contempt for them, when you're sat in your comfortable American home free from persecution.

Have you done anything at all for the Palestinians other than use them to score cheap points? I am a member of the PSC, I observe the Israeli boycott, and go out of my way to buy Palestinian olive oil, (about the only Palestinian product available.) Have you done anything like that? I would guess not.

The Israeli government/PR machine and Israeli apologists like to portray all criticism of Israel as being rooted in anti-Semitism. I have been called anti-Semitic just for supporting Palestinian human rights. So when a Holocaust denier like you starts talking about Palestine, you're playing right into their hands. ( I have read your posts, you may have modified your stance slightly, but you did start off denying the Holocaust.)

Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages, the Holocaust being an extreme example of that persecution. Just because Israel uses guilt about that persecution to detract from it's treatment of the Palestinians, doesn't mean the persecution didn't happen.

I have spent a long time trying to persuade those people reluctant to criticise Israel of the facts surrounding the occupation. In one fell swoop you have undermined the good work people like myself and Infra Blue have been doing to increase awareness of the horrors of the occupation.

Many members of the Jewish diaspora are very reluctant to criticise Israel, they fear that anti-Semitism will rise up again, and if Israel is not there to shelter them, they will watch their loves ones perish in the gas chambers. This fear is something the Israeli PR machine likes to exploit, so when you start claiming the Holocaust didn't happen/wasn't all that bad, and saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is a moron, you are doing Israel's job for them.

You don't seem to realise the Palestinians are people, they are suffering under a brutal occupation, and you've made that suffering just a little bit worse for your own selfish ends.

You really are beneath contempt.


Blah blah blah blah blah. Are you done crying yet? Need a tissue?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:29 am
@Krumple,
Thanks for confirming that you're a selfish bitch who has no concern for anyone else.

It's not surprising that you would confuse fellow feeling for a persecuted people with crying.

You're obviously incapable of feeling anything for anyone other than yourself. You really are a complete ****.

Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:34 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Thanks for confirming that you're a selfish bitch who has no concern for anyone else.

It's not surprising that you would confuse fellow feeling for a persecuted people with crying.

You're obviously incapable of feeling anything for anyone other than yourself. You really are a complete ****.


No izzy, it always has to be pointed out to you doesn't it? The crying is you. You cry too much. You don't care about anything I have said here. Every time you challenge me I respond and you go running off on another tangent. You are just trolling me. You try to bate me into things and they don't work. So you come back and try to paint me as something you know I'm not. Hoping to get a rise out of me to feed your need to troll. I'm really okay with that because we both know that you are not capable of doing or saying anything else.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 09:04 am
@Krumple,
No, I've pointed out exactly what you have done, and the sort of person you are. If you don't like the sort of person you've become you only have yourself to blame. Your posts would indicate that you're still blaming others instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.

You cast yourself as a victim because people respond in an understandable way when you post offensive and/or insulting comments. It's a rather pathetic form of attention seeking, but it does allow you not to face up to what you are.

As long as you can blame others, you let yourself off the hook. That's probably a defence mechanism, because you're seriously fucked up.

I don't want to contribute to your mental illness by saying what I think it is that's fucked you up, but your mask has slipped more than once. Instead of blaming other people for all of life's misfortunes, be they Jew, Christian or whatever, you need to get some counselling. If nothing else, you're desperately unhappy.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 09:14 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

No, I've pointed out exactly what you have done, and the sort of person you are. If you don't like the sort of person you've become you only have yourself to blame. Your posts would indicate that you're still blaming others instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.

You cast yourself as a victim because people respond in an understandable way when you post offensive and/or insulting comments. It's a rather pathetic form of attention seeking, but it does allow you not to face up to what you are.

As long as you can blame others, you let yourself off the hook. That's probably a defence mechanism, because you're seriously fucked up.

I don't want to contribute to your mental illness by saying what I think it is that's fucked you up, but your mask has slipped more than once. Instead of blaming other people for all of life's misfortunes, be they Jew, Christian or whatever, you need to get some counselling. If nothing else, you're desperately unhappy.


I am pretty sure you are talking about yourself here. Just another typical troll and I have wasted too much time responding to you because all there is in return is more nonsense. I should apologize to those who actually care what is said on this thread and in those posts which you have wasted time and space on. I couldn't care any less for what you think of me. Your statements have zero value. I wouldn't care who thinks you are right saying them.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 10:21 am
@Krumple,
Do you actually know what a troll is? You use the word a lot but, like a lot of words, you don't appreciate its meaning.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:29 pm
@izzythepush,
Thank you Izzy, that was a nice compliment.

Like I said, it's good to have morals. And, in that, listen to what people, real people went through or saw of the Holocaust.. And, this is why I am making notation that as such, people do not care how many people died and can't expect to be heard as a result.

This was PM'd to me from a friend. Imagine even just, being that person...

Quote:
Further to the Holocaust, have a look at this site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amersfoort_concentration_camp. Now I lived within 1 kilometre of this camp during the war years and can tell you many stories of what I have seen there. Being a young boy, me and my friends were able to enter this camp and bring the prisoners buckets of soup our mothers made. At the same time the Dutch underground passed us messages to deliver to the prisoners. The German guards had no idea what was going on and admired for the job we were doing.

A lot of prisoners weremade to work outside the camp, digging fortifications to stop cars and tanks entering the city. Again us young boys had no problem contacting the prisoners and feeding them. Many prisoners died of malnutrition and the harsh treatment they received. I have seen truck loads full of bodies come out of the camp which were buried in mass graves on the heath area next to the camp. We pointed out these graves to the Authorities after the war when all the bodies were exhumed and given decent burials. You can google Camp Amersfoort and find heaps of information there. Brings back lots of memories of the horrible winter of 1944/45, which is the worst year I experienced in my life. Not only was it an extremely cold winter but there was no power or food available.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:38 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Yeah I listened to a lot of similar stories. I actually think the majority of deaths actually resulted from malnutrition and disease. Both were rampant and when disease broke out it spread quickly and violently.

Almost all the photographs of the dead show them emaciated, skinny and you rarely if ever see photographs of dead bodies that are "healthy" looking. Which means they probably died of disease or starvation.

For some reason they kept the emaciated and starving ones and gassed the healthy ones.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:53 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
This is why I object to religion and religious people WHO (the important word here) think they have the right to do so. Show the facts and then you are all good in my opinion. If you can't present the facts then keep it to yourself


This is an impossibility though Krumple. You and I both know that. The only facts someone can produce regarding a "God" is heresay, their word. But, that does not mean that it is not factual that the event that they claim , did indeed occur. How can they possibly prove it? They can't.

Quote:
Not so much just this but when it is put to questioning and people tell me it is off the table. That I can't question someone's beliefs then I know that they have something to hide. We should have every right to question beliefs and especially when they are being used to impose their idea of "morality" onto society. If you want me to live a certain way, fine, but show me your work otherwise I shouldn't have to conform and no one else should.


As you can note, I just posted a "real persons" story to Izzy.. Now. Do you think that that person, with all he saw, would care about the number of bodies? In-fact he would ignore or attack, because he was there and he saw this. So with all due respect (morals) this is the point I was making.. You can't question numbers over a touchy subject without expecting to be torn down.

Quote:
I think a lot of people just follow along. If someone else becomes emotional over something, so do they but for no good reason other than to follow the herd. They hear some claim and repeat it as if it were fact. This snowballs and then when a person like me comes along and questions the facts, they get branded using derogatory terms. I get called a bigot when I have no hatred or discrimination, I was only questioning the validity of a claim.


Yes people get emotional over "touchy" subjects don't you? Isn't there a touchy subject that if you and I engaged conversation in, and I prodded and prodded, and put that said subject down, or twisted it around, wouldn't you get touchy?

Quote:
There are many things I use to believe that I don't anymore. Some things were not easy to accept to be true. I would like there to be a god but I honestly don't see how one could exist or why one would exist. Let alone make a universe with this configuration. However; it makes perfect sense that the universe we have would result in this way had it happened completely by accident. This is what I would expect to see, there are lots of clues that it was completely random.


If you would "like" there to be a God, then that means you haven't ruled out the possibility. If you feel there are no facts, yet as I stated, what a person senses, sees, hears doesn't necessarily mean they are crazy, actually occured, then there is a fact.. But, alas off course no one is every going to believe them, ie) I saw a ghost.. No way! They don't exist.

The Universe could have happened scientifically by pure accident, but why are the male birds the pretty ones and not the female? I've asked this before, and the point of that comment is, how did that happen, who decided that, I can comprehend perhaps "why" it happened but how? By accident? That is not feasible.

Quote:
I am against those who impose their beliefs and expect others to live by their set rules of morality. Their take on morality. They want to force me and others to live by their rules.
But, it takes that person to agree to live by someone elses set of rules on anything. No one can force anyone, unless they live under someone's roof and can't escape from that.. ? Were you forced to live by someone's rules Krumple? Even as a kid?

Quote:
like within the holocaust thread. Some posters never even took the time to read over my argument. They just immediately went into bashing me and assumed that I was a denier. Others would jump on board and call me a bigot or antisemitic which only proved my point. They didn't care about what I said at all or test it for themselves.


I am truly sorry Krumple. They didn't care to read over your argument, because you chose to try factuals on a thread that touches people's hearts, why would they? I wouldn't either and I think I have made that stance very clear.

Quote:
He is a person just like me, and misled just like I was.


I often wonder when someone goes through something and feels that they see a simularity, whether or not they really do think like that? He was misled just like you. I don't think Spades would agree with that at all. He doesn't feel misled at all, what about the word "choice" ?

Quote:
I think he thinks his intentions are pure and good but they are not. Weather he knows it or not, it is bad. Just how much he knows this would determine just how bad he would be. But I know his reasoning, he thinks there is something good at the other end of this but there is not. It is more harmful than good but he doesn't see it yet, or he refuses to see it all together


I think you are focusing too much on your own beliefs and over -thinking. He "knows" his intentions are pure. And they are.. And how can you say there is nothing good at the end of this, if you know that then you are God:) Get my drift there.. It is ok to believe in what ever you want to isn't it? Why should he listen and "see it all together", on a subject that he doesn't agree with, you on?

There is no harm in believing in God. There is no harm in believing in yourself.

There is harm, when you question everything that exists or doesn't exist I think because how can your mind possibly get it right or be clear when there are so many questionables? You sleep at night but you don't because you (not you personally), toss and turn the possibles and get totally confused in the end until you come to a conclusion but then you doubt that conculsion, unless you believe that the answer you derived at finally, is the right one.. Doing that over and over and over again on a multitude of subjects, surely would send someone nuts.

Or give them a huge headache Wink
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:00 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
The Universe could have happened scientifically by pure accident, but why are the male birds the pretty ones and not the female? I've asked this before, and the point of that comment is, how did that happen, who decided that, I can comprehend perhaps "why" it happened but how? By accident?


With all do respect.

Quote:
That is not feasible.


Do you have any evidence to back up this claim of it not being feasible?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:04 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
But, it takes that person to agree to live by someone elses set of rules on anything. No one can force anyone, unless they live under someone's roof and can't escape from that.. ? Were you forced to live by someone's rules Krumple? Even as a kid?


Did you agree to speak the language that you speak? did you decide your sexuality? You may have made the later but more often than not we are born with it and we are born into the beliefs that we hold as well. Sure we see the light at times and see though the indoctrination but are we really so smart that we can see though all of it?
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:04 pm
@Krumple,
See, If I was to listen to those stories, with my (heart), I would feel very down, sad, angry even.. It's not something that I would personally, take an interest in to try to nit pick it and establish facts.. It would be something that I would be interested in to understand what happened and leave it at that. But, that's just me.

Quote:
For some reason they kept the emaciated and starving ones and gassed the healthy ones.


Evil does evil things. Imagine being the one was was emaciated and starved.. What sort of life would that be? Every single day waking up hungry, scared, walking the Earth but not living.

The healthy ones.. Another pure evil. Believing they are going to a shower and then smelling gas. Imagine their last dying moments?

Both are evil, simply put.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:07 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
It is ok to believe in what ever you want to isn't it?


Does this include that women or blacks should have lesser rights?
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
Did you want to try to answer that RL? Instead of just stating with all due respect?

Don't you think it is a good question? Why... who decided that.. A simple universe? Quite clever don't you think that the male birds hold all the beauty...

I'm suprised that you don't want to offer your thoughts of a solution there.

How can one person's word make it feasible. So yes, I can back it up. Words mean nothing. Yet, that person saw or heard something to make them change their tune on their beliefs or highten it.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:13 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
we are born with it and we are born into the beliefs that we hold as well


Quote:
unless they live under someone's roof and can't escape from that


Quote:
Sure we see the light at times and see though


Yep, ..... The only time we are forced to not be able to make our own decisions/choices is unless we live under someones roof and can't escape from being able to make our own choices... After which when we do, we then have the opportunity to see the light and make our own choices.

Are we smart enough to know good from bad, smart from stupid. Life is a lesson off course we keep learning, we should keep learning. But no one can force us to do anything if we don't want it. Unless we live under their roof and have no choice.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:15 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Did you want to try to answer that RL? Instead of just stating with all due respect?


I apologize as I thought that you were stating that it could not have happened by chance. My bad.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
It is ok to believe in what ever you want to isn't it?


Quote:
Does this include that women or blacks should have lesser rights?


Is that not what is right or wrong and morals. You know exactly what I mean by belief and your rights to what you want to believe in, in the context that it was written RL.

(EDIT) I thought you were being a tad ..... hense my reply above, my turn to apologise.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
Imagine that? Smile

No worries, the Internet is a strange place to try to talk sometimes Smile
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:18 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Are we smart enough to know good from bad, smart from stupid. Life is a lesson off course we keep learning, we should keep learning. But no one can force us to do anything if we don't want it. Unless we live under their roof and have no choice.


I can agree but we also learn things that are not by choice but from our culture and not all of these thing are correct but yet we will speak as if they are empirically true at times regardless if we mean no harm or not.
 

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