Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

There are indeed billions of other galaxies as that many can been seen and counted for that matter.

Our instruments can reach back to very near the beginning of the universe as a matter of fact. Read any good book on the subject.

Or are you saying that something that been reported by many people all around the world with the background in that area of knowledge can not or should not be believe?

How insane is that I never been to the mainland of Europe myself but I give full faith and credit that France and Germany are real places and all those galaxies are as real.

Oh by the way you might need to look up Occam's razor as once more your postings seem to indicate you do not had a clue of it meaning.

I assumed as a christian you would know the whole Jesus story and how you can only get to the father (ie heaven) though the son (ie believing in him). There are approximately only 2 billion people on this planet that believe in him (or at least state they do) so that leaves about 4-5 billion that are headed straight to hell at this very moment...unless you want to try and make something up about how you can get into heaven some other acheivable way...which isn't stated in the bible or anywhere else in christianity...ever (officially at least). Why would it have to be the end for god to come down? He's supposedly all powerful so how come he can't just come down for a quick chat, answer all of our questions, then "peace out"? This wouldn't affect free will because we would still have the ability to reject him as you clearly stated! "if God truly revealed himself to us all, it would be the end...and either we would have to accept him, or deny him, so therefor, it would destroy free will as we know it today" How can you not have free will yet still have the choice to accept or deny him? The only thing that would change is that there would be real evidence to support that there actually is a god thus saving billions from hell. Your god is also attributed with being all knowing, which means he knowingly refuses to provide real or accurate proof of himself, thus damning billions of people around the world. Your god is supposedly able to stop all of this from happening (with him being all powerful and all) and making everything so much better yet hasn't done a ******* thing about any of it...pardon the language, it was used for effect.

Side note, did you know that "****" is actually one of the most versitile words in the entire english language? it's also so magical that it's attributed as being the "f word" in spite of all other f words in the english language (over 3000 different words).

PS believing others concerning the numbers of galaxies or that France and Germany are real places is not the same as giving credit to fairy tales of a god no matter how many people there are that share those believes.

The first two bits of information fit into the rational understanding of the universe the idea of a god does not do so in any manner.

What a small little god the Christian god is all concern about one life form on one tiny planet.

Oh a god that existed before time and space somehow needed lungs and a stomach and I assume a penis as he created us in his own image?

Oh I would guess like his son he **** to..........

But then you get into the 'who created the creator' loop.

no, your not understanding what I'm saying....think about it...if God was to "reveal" himself...then the ones who would Still reject him with free will would then be in MORE hot water...and it would LESSEN the ones who believe based on faith alone....and then "many" would accept or reject based on the fact of "evidence" rather than "faith" destroying free will as we know it....in short it would not be the same....

I do understand what you're saying, the only thing that god revealing himself would destroy, however, would be the concept of "salvation by faith". So really the question is: why would our ultimate salvation for all eternity rest only on how gullible we are and how easily we can become brainwashed into believing things in which many rational and intelligent minds deem as nonsensical? As far as our consequences if your god were to reveal himself, that's also nonsensical. What is worse than the hell's in which religion has conjured up? What's worse than being burned alive and tortured mercilessly for all time for merely not being gullible towards a particular diety you may not have even heard of? There's no "hotter water" than that and as far as the people who would have believed through faith rather than evidence, you would think that since your god is "all-knowing" that he would know who would truly have believed in him through faith and would reward them accordingly. So ultimate the only thing that would be destroyed by your god revealing himself, is the impending eternal doom of billions.

and again, how do you know with CERTAINITY, that billions will be burned forever? what if God, gave rebirths for "another chance" till they made it...or what if people were purged but not condemned forever? and as far as people making it without Jesus, Abraham, Issac, Jacob...etc...made it to Heaven, without knowing Jesus, But by the reflections of light they did in their lives and by accepting God....and when they were risen probably excepted Jesus Christ...Just like I have stated to Buddhists, if their a reflection of light then they ARE doing God's WORK...and in the end will have the wisdom, to accept Jesus if they wish to...If you feel that we have one life, and we either make it or not, then I see your points....but if your trying to have a discussion with me about a "Deity" or "afterlife" than I think you should approach the "situation" or "discussion" with an Open-mind....and NOT have pre-concieved opinions about such discussions....much like you told me that I think and talk about life springing on it's own and the odds are roughly 1 to the 123rd power...that I jumped right to the end, and as you pointed out, if ANYTHING from the start to the finish were different, than our existence would be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT....same is true to you, if a God exists...than you would have to "think" in terms of all things are POSSIBLE...."without ANY" pre-concieved expectations....because that very mind set shows to me that the acceptance by proof, would fade and NOT work....too many people would be askng God to perform miracles to them personally in their OWN ways which would under value the need of the power of an ALL knowing God....

again, approach the situation, if your willing to discuss a God or afterlife as ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE....Jesus says, believe me that you know I am in the Father, and the Father is in me, but even so that YOU DO NOT believe me...believe in the miracles....which to me (as I pointed out) (weeping statues, stigmata) etc....is the proof of his existence BY ACTIONS....and if your "trying" to find ways to scientificly "explain" these things, then it's CLEAR, you reject his "evidence" and Have YOUR OWN preconceived notions as to what is a "Sign" or "evidence" from him...and therefor. it wouldn't be a sign from God, but rather what you "think" is a miracle from him in order to "get" you to believe...it totally destroys the whole Idea of a God, and couldn't work....God would be our servant and we would be his Gods, though he is pure an were not....that is why it is not done that way....and again people who reject would be to FURTHER punishment, and it would lessen the believers....

really? you can "see" Billions of "other galaxies" in one shot? please provide this picture....

thanks, but No thanks....

kinda sounds like you saying, that people in "knowledge" of Mary or Christ, are ALL lying in saying that these things (weeping Statues, stigmata)were ALL Hoaxes???

Same exact way as I have NEVER seen a Stigmata, nor weeping statues of Bloody tears from Mary or Jesus...but yet know it is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE they're ALL HOAXES!!!

When your fairy tales are shown to had any connection to the real universe get back to me with that question.

You are able to spread your illogical nonsense by the same science that support and made possible the internet and the instruments that can look back billions of years into the past.

Silly person as in the middle ages where books and knowledge was rare and confined to a very few your superstitions believes might had some excused but not in an age were the bulk on mankind knowledge is open to anyone with an internet connection.

I know with certainty that billions would not be burned forever in the afterlife because I know that there is no after life (well I don't "know" 100% but to a great enough extent to rule it out). I do, however, know the scriptures and what it clearly states in the bible:

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

The bible also says that good works cannot save you: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

And the most well known verse in the bible: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

There's also no mention of reincarnation in any version of the bible that I have read or any verses stating such things. As far as Abrahan, Issac, etc getting into heaven without Jesus, that would be breaking the rules. There is supposedly another way which is to live an absolutely perfect life free of sin...this however is impossible seeing as how Adam and Eve supposedly screwed us over with the whole original sin thing.

As far as me supposedly not having an open mind, I, in fact, do. Religion, however, is very closed-minded which is what I'm trying to point out. All you're doing is adding in a whole bunch of rationalizations (that aren't stated in the bible) to make the "truth" that the religion claims, less ridiculous. I was a christian for about 7 years, I know what it says in the bible, and I know all the ridiculous claims that are made there, and I believe them to be bogus. There is of course a limit on the whole "open-mind" concept. I guarantee that you wouldn't take the stork theory seriously as an actual theory on where babies come from...unless you're mentally insane. I also believe that the same applies for religions that worship personal gods. Religion doesn't really ever change it's claims except in the face of extinction through discoveries in science (such as the universe only being 6k-10k years old which it does state in the bible). Pretty much any claim or rationalization that you can make for your god and to help smooth over all the horrible gaps in the bible are futile. You're defending a bankrupt ideology that only has one leg left to stand on...ignorance. Just look at your arguments, the only arguments that you've made were either invalid, based on what is not testable/can't be proven, or based on ignorance. There's no known way to completely rule out an afterlife but based on all the evidence in which we have about life and death here in reality, it's all been shown to contradict all idea's of an afterlife. None of the things in which you have claimed as proof are testable in a satisfactory manner in order to actually prove that it's a supernatural miracle rather than a hoax, since it's not testable in such a way, it cannot be constituted as "proof" because it hasn't actually proven anything, it's an empty claim and that's it.

I'm also not concerned with the possibility of things, I'm concerned with the probablility of things. It's possible that I'll wind up on Mars tomorrow in a completely perfect atmosphere and am charged with populating the planet with Scarlett Johansson...the probability of this happening however, is so slim that it's not even worth considering as a possibility...which is my point.

occam's razor....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

it states and I quote, "Occam’s razor is used as a heuristic (general guiding rule or an observation) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models.[8][9] In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic, and certainly not a scientific result."

So what is your point in using occam's razor Bill??

correct! and I have stated you "need" faith to be saved...I have stated that from my perceptions..."everyone will have at least one chance" whether life, rebirths (if they exist) purging, or death and reserection etc....

Correct, and I have "further" stated Good acts may "lead" to wisdom or as the Bible says Prudentness which lead to accepting in "faith" in Christ during again, life, rebirths (if they exist) purging, or death and resserrection....

indeed correct again! and I believe ALL will have a chance to have faith in Christ, by all of those above possibilities...which leads to being prudent, which "leads" to "faith" in Christ....



Jesus ALSO says, with God ALL things are possible....So I do NOT discredit ANYTHING you stated rather, that, looking at it from a perspective of live one life and one chance....probably isn't how it's done....which is YOUR preconceived notion as to the existence of life! rather in other unexplained ways....EVERYONE will have a "chance" to accept Jesus, whether in life or rebirths (if they exists) or purging, and or death and ressurection....which like I stated earlier goes BEYOND any preconceived notions of one life, one chance, one death, nothing happening either WHEN you die, or while your Dieing.... So if your willing to debate a conversation about Jesus or an afterlife, please approach it with the understanding that comes with accepting it...if your open-minded like you say....which I believe ( for the record)

Would God be OK with a person that has a different religion{ Islam} seeking to find the truth about their bible and their beliefs by studying the history of all religions in a non bias way?

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8V8rtdXnLA

not bad....but I am interested because he did not talk about it...what are his views on religion? because to me, Christianity hasn't changed since it was written, so therefor, I would say If (Christians were right) 2000 yrs ago plus, then they are just AS right TODAY!...where as he is basically talking about science, and saying were getting more and more farther from the truth...which to me tells me, that scientists "think'' they are correct, when in fact, (by this man's statements)....they "are in fact" becoming dumber and dumber....or farther from the truth....which tells me that science, can't be trusted....as to proving ANYTHING for CERTAIN....and we never will....but yet the Bible says the same as it did when it was written, which in short would be MORE relighable than scientists today....btw...not to boast but most of the things he talked about that people think they would want in "order" to be happy...such as having money over sickness....or wanting children, and not having them, or having children and Not wanting them....I personally am "not" in that pessimistic wrongness that he talks about....because personally, I WAS ATHEIST, and was very beautiful etc...had a great body etc....everything you can name...and it was taken away at the time of my conversion, and prophecies, and I am EXTREMLY happier NOW....so I would say, that finding God, truly completed me....and MADE me SELF-AWARE....

I do not think that you are being intellectual honest with people nor yourself!
Study the history of religion is about all I can say to you!

You see, this is what I am talking about. You can clearly see that what the scriptures specifically say are (for the most part) nonsensical in regards to your ideas of "god". Because of this, you have to alter them so that they make sense with whatever you perceive your god to be. The bible doesn't say anything about any second chances or anything other than this one life that we have on earth. This is what religious people do all the time to try and rationalize these beliefs that are so flawed. You just fill in the gaps with whatever and just rewrite or ignore all the horrible, evil, stupid stuff. Recently, there was some guy said that tried to tell me that God actually created Adam and Eve during the Iron Age after the world had already begun/been created...which is utter insanity.

Couple questions: firstly, how are the secluded Amazonian tribes, which do not interact with outsider (or any other such secluded groups), suppose to learn the story of Christ if they have no interations whatsoever with any Christians? Second question: What do you think of your god in this verse of the bible and what's your rationalization for it?:
2 Kings 2:23-2:25
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2:25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

I can't speak about Islam, because I don't know enough about it...but from my understandings...I don't believe that they (the Bible, and Quran) are the same divinely inspired texts....but to answer your question as best as I can, If you study other religions, and it shapes you BACK toward your own and self defeats the others, I would say it's not a bad thing....that is what I did...Was Christian, Atheist, then studied Taoism, Buddhism, Islam (a little), and little of other religions etc...but it lead me back to and firmly Christian....if you have "faith" in a religion by testing "other" religions I think it will lead you back toward your own strengthening your own faith....but in Christianity, when it says do not read other scriptures or you be a cursed man....I think God means....If you denounce me for another "God" you will be cursed....and to me he's right....because in studying "other" religions Jesus in the MOST relighable in my opinion....(over Mohammed, Buddha, Sidhartha, Confucious, Lau-Tzu etc...even over Judaism, and Islam....which Islam claims they are from the same origionater....)