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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 06:10 am
@reasoning logic,
Laughing

I totally agree with what your friend said... Twisted Evil

Laughing
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 06:19 am
@Chights47,
Quote:
I'm not trying to rid theist's from the earth, far from it, I'm trying to eliminate the flaws in which people so desperately hold on to. You don't need religion in order to do these good things so it really only gets in the way and consumes your time from other beneficial actions so it hinders you that way and there are many people who use religion for their own selfish benefits far more often than you would think. Believe it or not, working to eliminating religion would benefit the world far more than just working to directly aid humanity in the same type of ways that you might. I honestly don't really understand the last part that you wrote though concerning the challenge. If your challenge is about working together with Christians to help humanity then I actually already do that. I assist my fiance with her church fundraisers and assist with soup kitchen services they offer and I also volunteer with Habitat for Humanity which is actually a Christian non-profit organization.

So then you proved my point exactly....why do you help Christian organizations, if you think there views are flawed? you do it to better humanity ( which is a GREAT thing you do, I must say, and not just with the Christian-non profit organization, but helping out in other areas as well) but if you yourself, are divided, in that your Atheist, but yet help Christians....(Same as I am Christian, but don't boast on here believe or perish, which many Christians would probably label me as a soothesayer...yet I think their view is the one that needs to be reformed...yet I go out of my way like I just have above to show admiration, it admirable acts, like yourself, or that unnamed Buddhist I talked to)how could you not understand the plausibility of the same exact being possible with what you view as horrible flaws with the Bible? How can it NOT be that the Bible is a guide, and people should use the book to become PRUDENT for EVERY circumstance?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 06:28 am
@BillRM,
since you feel that an inatomit statue with no free will involved of a Virgin Mary Continually bleeding is silly...now I ask for you to use Creatable "fact" "math" and "science" to prove why these statues do this? since None on the planet can explain it....
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 06:40 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
since you feel that an inatomit statue with no free will involved of a Virgin Mary Continually bleeding is silly...now I ask for you to use Creatable "fact" "math" and "science" to prove why these statues do this? since None on the planet can explain it....


This reminds me of a oil stain on the floor of a museum this past week!

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/cleaning-lady-scrubs-away-stain-on-martin-kippenbergers-when-it-starts-dripping-from-the-ceiling/story-e6frfku0-1226185490056
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 07:05 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Sorry the Virgin Mary statue did not catch my eyes like the return of the dead claimed did in your link,

Seem off hand that such a hoax would not be hard to set up but I did not look at all your silly links.

Oh the Virgin Mary as in being a virgin all her life even if she was a marry woman is indeed a miracle of the first order.

Her poor husband....LOL
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 07:09 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
'http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/29/1091080366746.html?from=storylhs

Bleeding, weeping' Virgin Mary a hoax: archbishopJuly 29, 2004 - 4:45PM


The hand of man rather than God made religious icons appear to bleed and weep blood at a Brisbane Catholic Church, an investigation has found.

Brisbane Catholic Archbishop John Bathersby said today the substance that seeped from a statue of the Virgin Mary, pictures of Christ and crucifixes was not supernatural or a miracle, but synthetic.
He called on the person or persons responsible for the hoax to come forward and tell the truth.

He said a panel of experts could not be satisfied "that the phenomenon was, within the proper meaning of the word, a miracle".

The phenomena, which began at the Vietnamese Catholic Community Church in Inala in Brisbane's west on May 21, attracted thousands of people who thought they were seeing the lord's work in action.

But believers, who are still trickling in from around the country and across the world, today said the official findings made no difference to their conviction that God had given them a sign.

Anne Nguyen, who had flown from California to visit the church, said it did not matter to her what the church had ruled - she still believed.

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"We still believe - the rest doesn't matter," she said.

Staff at the Vietnamese Catholic Community Church today refused to comment on the church's findings.

Archbishop Bathersby said he hoped people who had returned to the faith as a result of the bleeding icons would not be disillusioned by the experience.

He said the investigation into the weeping icons, headed by Father Dr Adrian Farrelly, had been both meticulous and extensive, involving scientific investigation and witness interviews.

Archbishop Bathersby said in light of the findings he had instructed the church to remove all the icons from public worship.

He also ordered an extensive investigation into the amount of money raised through the sale of icons and the passing of the collection plate at the Inala church since news of the weeping artefacts emerged.

Archbishop Bathersby said allegations that the church had been profiting from DVDs of television news stories on the phenomena were unfounded.

AAP

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0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 07:17 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
http://www.skepdic.com/weepingstatues.html


weeping statue
A weeping statue is a statue, usually of Mary the mother of Jesus, that allegedly weeps tears of water, blood, or an oil of some sort.

Mary is also known to Christians, especially Roman and various Orthodox Catholics, as "the mother of God" and "the Virgin Mary." Mary, it is believed by those who revere her, was assumed into heaven (i.e., flew into the sky) at the end of her earthly life and makes regular visits to Earth to perform miracles and utter banal messages. Allegedly, one of her ways of communicating to earthlings is to drip liquid from the eyes of specially chosen statues and paintings. Apparently, this is her way of letting us know that she weeps for our sinfulness, or some such thing, and that some people's statues are more worthy than others of her presence.

The weeping statues are either a sign that the divine is demented or that there are a number of pious frauds who think they are doing god's work by hoaxing others. It is certainly possible that a woman who gave birth to a baby she called Jesus about 2,000 years ago flew into the sky, disappeared, and occasionally reappears to do such things as squirt olive oil from a pore in a piece of limestone or ceramic. On the other hand, it seems much more likely that weeping statues are hoaxes, though a few might be due to natural causes like condensation, weathering, aging, chemical reaction to the air, etc.

Non-drying oils, such as olive oil, have been used in the past to saturate statues that later appear to be bleeding or weeping. Religious frauds count on belief in their honesty and integrity, as well as in the pilgrim's desire to witness a miracle. Perhaps the pious frauds justify their deception by thinking they are helping bring people to a belief in god. They might ask themselves, what kind of god wants admirers who must be tricked into admiration? For more on the oil trick see Joe Nickell.

For those who wish to create their own weeping statue, Italian skeptic Luigi Garlaschelli describes one way to do it:

What is needed is a hollow statue made of a porous material such as plaster or ceramic. The icon must be glazed or painted with some sort of impermeable coating. If the statue is then filled up with a liquid (surreptitiously, through a tiny hole in the head, for example), the porous material will absorb it, but the glazing will stop it from flowing out. If the glazing, however, is imperceptibly scratched away on or around the eyes, tear-like drops will leak out, as if materializing from thin air. If the cavity behind the eyes is small enough, once all the liquid has dripped out there are virtually no traces left in the icon. When I put it to the test, this trick proved to be very satisfactory, baffling all onlookers.*
A simpler method is just to smear blood or oil on the icon.

Some reports of weeping statues may be the result of collective hallucination, a sensory hallucination induced by the power of suggestion to a group of people. Such hallucinations generally occur in heightened emotional situations, especially among the religiously devoted. The expectancy and hope of bearing witness to a miracle, combined with long hours of staring at an object or place, make certain religious persons susceptible to seeing such things as weeping statues, moving icons and holy portraits, or the Virgin Mary in the clouds.

If you see a statue weeping, don't think miracle, think fraud or hysteria.

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 07:23 am
@BillRM,
Virgin births are not uncommon even Sai Baba's mother said that he was born of a miraculous birth!
He died this year and was resurrected into heaven! he had a birthday party a couple of years ago and had more than 1,000,000 people attend.
He performed miracles and so forth! I wonder what his people will say about him 2000 years from now?




Have you ever seen this many people at a birthday party? It must be a miracle!

0 Replies
 
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 09:31 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The bible is not a guide. The better people christians are, the less they actually listen to the bible and make up their own version of "god". The more literal people take the bible, generally, the worse they are, just look at the Westboro Baptist Church and other places like them.

As I stated before, image how much better the world would be if people stopped wasting time on fairytales and used that extra time to help people. That would literally be billions of people spending numerous hours each week for the benefit of mankind rather than spreading and reassuring unprovable and disproven dogma. Yes, Christian organizations can do as much good as anyone else because we all have that same potential but there's so much more that could be done if we eliminate the needless flaws of religion. I'm not as against the people who are religious in the same manner you are, but it is still an unneccessary hinderance in which prevents the optimization of potential good.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 09:54 am
@Chights47,
It is not only the things that people learn from the bible that can be harmful but wolves in sheep clothing {psychopaths} play on the emotions of believers to obtain their goals.
Believing hinders logical reasoning in the real world!
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 10:00 am
@reasoning logic,
I am gonna post a link for someone who has a website worth checking out....His name is Cliff, and he's from CT U.S.A. and he goes and debates with college kids, he is a believer in Christ, and they are Atheist or Agnostic or other spiritual beliefs....his website is

Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

check it out please its worth it...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 10:04 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
check it out please its worth it...


Hopefully it is more worth while then the others links you had posted of late!!!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 10:38 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 11:07 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I have checked out many of his videos in the past, That is what I do, "that is part of trying to be non bias!

He is a very smart man but the logic he uses can be used with {any religion}. You can say the same thing about a spaghetti monster!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 11:25 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
You can say the same thing about a spaghetti monster!


Do not forget about the Great Pumpkin! Drunk
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 11:29 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I do have a couple of question for you.

If other religions can be wrong in their understanding about the reality of God Why cant me and you be wrong in our understandings?

Why not call these things what they are? Things that we do not know of as yet! Maybe we never will!
Study the history of religion and see what you can learn! 2 Cents
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2011 09:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
He is a very smart man but the logic he uses can be used with {any religion}. You can say the same thing about a spaghetti monster!
That's what apologists do, they use tautological statements in order to make whatever they say/believe seem true.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:28 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
If other religions can be wrong in their understanding about the reality of God Why cant me and you be wrong in our understandings?

We can be, as I have said many times, I may very well be wrong...

Quote:
Why not call these things what they are?

problem is, what is the way that they are that you refer to? from your experiences, you don't see that God exists, from my experiences, I see that he does, so who is exactly right? and what way should it then be called? your stating your side, and I am stating mine...

Quote:
Things that we do not know of as yet! Maybe we never will!

Because certain things that many Atheists on here, deny, which I know exist, and it isn't an aproximation of truth to me like you view things...in terms of things we will never know, honestly I don't think ANY theist or Atheist will probably EVER agree on that point, because one side says you live your life and die and that's it, so get the knowledge and reasoning you can grasp...while the other side beliefs in some-sort of afterlife, and believes that wisdom, faith, and spirituality are the main goals, and honestly...we will find out when we die...if we rot, then you were right, but no way of ever proving it, if theists are right then, they will learn and grow forever...and there actions here are essential for a good life later...much like many Atheists do good, when they don't feel any remotely higher purpose is involved....

Quote:
Study the history of religion and see what you can learn! 2 Cents

I honestly maybe will do that, though I don't consider myself COMPLETLY bias, (at least not a horrible one) but honestly, I probably already know it won't change my views on Christ...

just a simple question, why was my link removed? did I do some infrindgement that I am unaware of? why are youtube links post-able but not others? just curious, so I know for the future, thanks....



XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:34 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I have checked out many of his videos in the past, That is what I do, "that is part of trying to be non bias!

He is a very smart man but the logic he uses can be used with {any religion}. You can say the same thing about a spaghetti monster!

please explain to me, (so that I am NOT so bias, as do how you could use his logic to explain a spaghetti monster? or explain other religions?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2011 07:35 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Atheists on here, deny, which I know exist


Like the links you posted to religion hoaxes?

 

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