Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@izzythepush,

I bring up many bazaar things to see what people think and how they react emotionally or logically to them. I do not make fun of people for their beliefs only try and discus with them other point of views. I study human behavior so I often discus thing that I am not into only to see how others respond!

I am not a believer of anything! I only have understandings {approximations of truth} and many of them are incorrect!

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@Setanta,

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You always were a snide son of a bitch. As it happens, the King James version of the bible has some of the most elegant writing in the language. One can appreciate the quality of the writing without subscribing to the superstition.

I see you are in a happy mood today. I like the bible myself! Are you also fond of Shakespeare?

How much do you enjoy reading Revelations?

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@reasoning logic,

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How much do you enjoy reading Revelations?...

Revelations is a bunch of bullshit which should not be in the Bible. The last real prophet died somewhere around 2600 years ago, sort of like the tomb of the unknowns, roughly at the time of Zechariah; any claims of prophecy since then are garbage.

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@gungasnake,

...I mean, the thing starts off like

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1 The Revelation of Jesus
Christ, which God gave unto him, to
shew unto his servants things which
must shortly come to pass...

There is no rational definition of "shortly" which means that 2000 years later whatever it is still hasn't happened but whatever it is is still somehow or other believable. This is the Christian equivalent of evolosers/evolutionites still looking for that first intermediate fossil...

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@gungasnake,

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any claims of prophecy since then are garbage

.

Any claims before your cut off date is also garbage.

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@gungasnake,

its not garbage, and prophecy STILL exists...I will commontate ( sorry, I don't know the spelling) but I mean to translate the whole first Chapter of the Book of Revelations...New King James

The Unveiling of God

Chapter 1

1. The unveiling of the Son who is God with the Father forevermore, gave testimony to a fellow and faithful servant by the name of John, to show the rightous and all life the events that must shortly take place next.
2. I, john speak and proclaim from Jesus to all life, Hold fast to the gospels of Jesus, And obey his commands, and observe all things which you witness.
3. I, God, Praise all who fallow and obey all my commands, and am revealing truth, to encourange all to follow the truth, for the time has come!
4. John, to the whole world which is now one, mercy to you and piece from the one and only God that ever existed, who from all life will be judged accordingly to their actions and faith, Put your faith in I! The one and only way to salvation!
5. also, From my mouth, the one and only! who alone destroyed death for all, the one who is seen by all life forevermore, I am God, there is no other but me, who destoyed death once and for all life and was resurrected and live with the rightous now and forevermore.
6. To John, (Jesus) he makes us heirs and rulers of the Kingdom of Heaven, with all the rightous ones from least to greatest. and further to the rightous be eternal life forever and evermore Amen.
7. Look! He is comming swiftly and everyone will see him! and all those on earth will bow before him. and mourne because they are extremely afraid of the sight of Him, Nevertheless, It Must be done!
8. From My mouth, and it will be done! and there is no other way! I am the first and last, the One and only! who is God till the end and forevermore!
9. I, John speak as your fellow believer and follower in Christ now and forever, and also servant at the tests of earth, and humbly pry for all, that we all may obtain eternal life through His salvation, along with those who are already in Heaven with Him as servants, forever and evermore, all of what I am a witness to in the Holy Spirit of God, and on a land known as Pat mos, and to All who obey His words and commands be eternal life and glory forevermore.
10. I, John, had received prophecy on a Sunday or sabbath, then I heard from him, in a very bold voice, it sounded very distant but yet was all around me.
11. Saying, I am the One, and Only, Now and forevermore, What your witness to, write it down and then reveal it to the whole world which is now one (earth) to every corner of every area or continent.
12. Then he unveiled to me, all the rightous ones judged accordingly all around Him.
13. and among all the life, in the middle, was He himself Jesus Christ, wearing a pure white gown down to his feet, and also he was wearing a golden sash arrayed from his shoulder to his waist.
14. He had infinite wisdom, and he was perfectly clean all over! and everything was right in his sight!
15. and his knowledge was infinite as if he were retested over and over again, and whatever so he spoke of, was obeyed!
16. He held in His right hand the rightful Judgements of all life, whether good or bad! and his beauty was mighter than the sun in All its Glory!
17. and when I was in his presents, I John, became extrememly afraid of him in fear, but he comforted me saying, Do not be scared of me, I am here, am God, and to save! Now, and for the rightous for eternity!
18. I am the God who is, Always has been, and Look forever an evermore! And also the one Who will destroy evil for all life, and conquer Hell once and for all so it will be seen no more, Forevermore!
19. John! write down everything I command, the things you are a witness to, and the things yet to come!
20. The hidden truths and the judgements of all life, good or bad, and to prepair the rightous ones who are with God, who they themselves walked and conquered Earth also!, Who are now, in eternal glory forevermore for obeyeing my voice! that the time has indeed come to judge all living life!

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

could it be snake, that YOU think its garbage because you DON'T understand what going on? Or what is being said??

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

The same could be said of you.

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@MMarciano,

yes, yes it could! but did you actually read the above? what DOESN'T it sound like I understood about translating the first Chapter of Revelations, and what I posted? What sounds like it doesn't make sense?

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@BillRM,

Bill, I will be honest here, you call "my views" as delusional, and non-sense...but at the same token, label my views that because they differ from yours...just to traslate, I NEVER meant I thought demons were dancing in the sky...what I meant was when the plane hit I saw what clearly look like a demonic face probably Satan himself, as a SIGN so all could see him, (btw, if you had to look hard to "see it" then you were looking at a poor quality shot, to my knowledge at least, when I saw the image, (and this is years ago) I seen a Clear image, so I know AT LEAST ONE copy of this video exists that you can see an "image" clearly is present...unless, your stretching to find ways to destroy your doubt, that it was a demonic sign that was present...I am not going to debate extremists, I think their actions speak for themselves, and its clear to see their views on life and what an acceptable action as a Martyr is, is CLEARLY Satanic to me....In Christian Script, a Martyr is someone who DOES NOT do harm to themselves or OTHER people to get their points across, but rather turns the other cheek, and SUFFER till death WITHOUT harming themselves or others and is a Martyr for a "Higher cause"...So ALL the science or math in the world I don't need to see that the extremists were evil and therefor, a demonic sign done in presents of it, wouldn't be impossible! and no science or math can prove that image I call a sign WAS FALSE...just truly ones speculations as to how they explain it...If your not "open-minded" about discussions, then why are you here? what cause are you trying to benefit? do you look at others views the SAME as your own? etc...because it seems to me, to label a viewpoint as delusional or non-sense because it differs from yours, truly shows delusion, and is in EVERY way being one minded...again why are you here? and if it ever comes to the point that theist, as well as your counterparts in fellow Atheists agree that your posts don't belong here, or your not "ready" to handle these types of discussions, or message forums...then the best thing for you would be to "read" and "listen" rather, than opening your mouth...sometimes the BEST way to ''learn'' is to "listen" rather than speak...If there came a time, when Atheists disagree with EVERYTHING I post because in NO way am I being beneficial, to either them or myself, and or, almost EVERY Christian out there thinks I am misrepresenting Christianity, Such as saying that the ultimate way is NOT through Christ, then I would know and understand it is BETTER for me to look inward, and read rather than talk.... So, my suggestion to you is put down your books, which give you knowledge and learn a little about common sense, which CAN'T be learned from ANY book...(though obviously from my posts, I believe in Books, such as the Bible which teach Prudentness, and Wisdom etc...) to then BETTER your purpose on these websites, otherwise, to me your the one who "thinks" delusional, and speaks "non-sense"...and apparently your fellow Atheists agree with me on that...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

My friend seeing a shape or shapes in a cloud of hot gas and jumping to the conclusion that not only is this supernatural beings but one type of supernatural beings is not rational in any system of rational thoughts.

Let give you for fun of it that those shapes are indeed supernatural beings why label them as evil?

Could be they are angels of the lord coming down to take the goods souls to heaven as angels and demons are one and the same in shape as demons are just angels who side with the devil if memory serve me correctly.

This being a scene of the evil one agents on earth causing the lord people great pain and suffering you would off hand think that a caring lord would had his supernatural agents on hands.

To think otherwise seems to imply that the devil and his agents are either or far more powerful then the lord and this agents or the lord is uncaring about his followers and would allow the devil agents free reign at such an event.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I honestly have to agree with Bill on this one. For every single claim (that I'm aware of) that has said to have been supernatural, has at least an equivalent (and most the time better) secular explaination. As far as seeing a demonic face, I would equate that to some form of delusion whether it's that you've been conditioned to see such things from nothing or something else. I don't mean this to offend you, but when pretty much ever theistic claim has been refuted or at least has an equivalent secular answer, I tend to think that such things are irrational. I'm not saying that you are an irrational person nor is it my intention to demean you in anyway.

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...ok, well I am going to use facts and math, and science for this one...Did anyone read my links about Robert J. Spitzer? He uses math, science, physics, metaphysics etc and (according to him) he says that the odds of man evolving from absolute nothing is 1 to the 123rd power...let alone men and women who evolve and go on to write like Shakespear, or go on to be the FIRST to engineer and fly planes or go on to understand nuclear physics FROM NOTHING etc...where the odds would drastically go up...that's a 1 followed by 123 zeros, think of how big of a number that is...in a world where we live and there is roughly 6.84 Billion people (or 6,840,000,000) , and people use DNA tests which prove the certainty of about 1 in 4 quadrillion...or 4,000,000,000,000...lets think about that for a second, that would mean you would have to test one person 584 times BEFORE they would come back as a FALSE positive of NOT being a father...So its easy to understand why people believe in DNA tests and we hold them TRUTHFUL...and 1 to the 123rd power is so large that what most humans hold as truth...1 in 4 quadrillion...1 to the 123rd power would be 2.56 times more truthful than how accurate a DNA test is...so in other words (to simplify it) you would have to test someone with a DNA test in our modern day science 1460 times in the odds of 1 in 4 quadrillion to come back as a false positive...so let me ask you, if Robert J. Spitzer is anywhere close to accurate, what scientist, or physicist, or mathamatician would give ANY plausibility of life springing from the odds of 1 to the 123rd power??...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

So did he used his math to figure out the odds of a being trillions of times plus more complex then a human coming into being with out a creator?

A never ending serial of ever more complex gods it would seem is call for.

Silly nonsense...................

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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What would you ask Jesus to do for you to prove he is the savior??

Eliminating the demoKKKrat party would do for starters.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Doesn't it make you feel special to know that you're here despite those kind of odds?

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@Chights47,

it makes me feel special to know I am here, with a divine purpose intended....from God himself....

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Why does a horrible, deceitful, brainwashing lie make you feel special? What exactly is your "divine purpose" and how do you know that's from god and not just you/your pastors interpretation of this lie? For arguments sake, lets say that you do have a divine purpose directly from god. What makes you/your congregation so special that he would only chose you/your congregation to impart this purpose rather than the other 38 or so THOUSAND other denomination of christianity alone (roughly 2 billion other people)? That's not even including all of the hundreds of religions and thousands of deities and who knows have many different denominations and interpretations of all of them. How come your religion (regardless of which one it is) has so many flaws that you just ignore, overlook, or rationalize in order to keep this fantasy of yours going? There are sooooooooo many questions in which you put aside just so you can wallow in this false comfort. I apologize if this sounds mean but things don't get better just because you talk to your imaginary friend, they get better because you make it better.

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@Chights47,

simple, you agreed with Bill, so I will use Bill's analogy to destroy your logic...

bill said...

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So did he used his math to figure out the odds of a being trillions of times plus more complex then a human coming into being with out a creator?

then you said....

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doesn't it make you feel special to be here despite those odds?

So then my answer is to the both of you, if your logic tells you that its amazing to be here despite 1 to the 123rd power....than by your definiton God's existance is 1 to the infinate power of non existance...which means by your own logic, that if a God exists than he would have to be an excedingly special person then huh? despite the odds of someone writing scripts about him 5000+ yrs ago....but coincidentaly EVERY text that speaks about God, says that he is responsible for ALL the Good in the world....keep in mind that scripts were written over 5000 yrs ago, and the planet did not know that the earth was round till arguably 1492...but yet in Genesis there is mention of the words of God saying that the world was round....

as for your other response....

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Why does a horrible, deceitful, brainwashing lie make you feel special?

these are your views not mine, what makes my views horrible, deceitful, and of brainwashing? in what way is preaching to people about love and tollerance horrible? in what way is it deceitful? if we all practiced love and tollerance would the world be better or worse? so then does it REALLY matter what authority my words come from? and who exactly am I brainwashing? does ANY Atheist on here hold my preachings and experiences truthful?

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What exactly is your "divine purpose" and how do you know that's from god and not just you/your pastors interpretation of this lie?

My divine purpose is to teach the words of Christ, and LIVE MY live as best as I can to his....I know its from God, because I can actually feel and see him in my pryers and visions and dreams....it's not a lie from my pastors interpretations, because I don't need to go to church to hear or find out about God, all I need to do is seek him in the privacy of my own room....

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For arguments sake, lets say that you do have a divine purpose directly from god. What makes you/your congregation so special that he would only chose you/your congregation to impart this purpose rather than the other 38 or so THOUSAND other denomination of christianity alone (roughly 2 billion other people)?

who says that I am the ONLY one with a divine purpose from these 38 thousand congregations? if they are there (in church) then "they" have "some" faith in Christ, so therefor, they TOO have a divine purpose as well, whether they understand this or not....and I can even argue, ones who DENY Jesus have divine purposes because many will except him, even though they do not now....and I believe all life has a purpose to it, I don't think God would create life knowingly for the purpose to destroy it....the answers lie in when we in fact die....that is all I can say, or if you chose, sooner rather than later, here now on earth....while were on the subject, what is your proposed purpose to life? without a divine purpose? etc...or what would you call your divine purpose here on earth??

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That's not even including all of the hundreds of religions and thousands of deities and who knows have many different denominations and interpretations of all of them.

no one knows that answer, but honestly, does it really matter? maybe all of these thousands are the one living God portrayed thousands of different ways? and through thousands of different religions, but yet in the end we will find out it is ONE LIVING God....( read the Bible about the tower of Babel, where it explains how God created differences....)

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How come your religion (regardless of which one it is) has so many flaws that you just ignore, overlook, or rationalize in order to keep this fantasy of yours going?

How come Atheism will DENY EVERYONE of the flaws that exist with their views? such as they don't sin, or do wrong things at wrong times? or believe that basically their is no higher purpose to life only of what you make of life...which in short to me, is... do whatever you want, whenever you want, ALL the time, or submit, and it really makes no difference, and has no purpose....in the end....

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There are sooooooooo many questions in which you put aside just so you can wallow in this false comfort.

I don't have many questions, and I don't call it false comfort...having "faith" in something that is basically not provable is infinatly greater of a feat to accomplish than it is to "think" you have all the answers...or "think" that you can and will be "able to" find ALL the reasoning and Logic and knowledge that exists in the world....in EVERY instance....if your the one with MANY questions, than seek God, my friend....

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I apologize if this sounds mean but things don't get better just because you talk to your imaginary friend, they get better because you make it better.

You don't have to apologize, I value these discussions, your right, they don't get better because of an imaginary friend....because he is REAL...and guides me TOWARD being better and making things better....if I didn't use Jesus and things didn't get better for me, that would be a CLEAR indication that there probably isn't a God....but the fact things get better from him to myself with my actions, when I totally 100% put my faith "in him" and I see Jesus, in my experiences, says that he probably exists, and there is truth to what has been written and said about his life, death, and ressurection, wouldn't you agree? because the truth is, I probably couldn't make myself better WITHOUT him...so if I have to seek him in order to get better, than I will CONTINUE to do so, and Jesus or not Jesus, another name for God than I call him or not, (though I KNOW it's Jesus) it doesn't really matter does it? someone and something are guiding my life toward light....

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I probably couldn't make myself better WITHOUT him...so if I have to seek him in order to get better, than I will CONTINUE to do so, and

Silly logic on top of of silly logic.

I happen to believe in a fairy tale that made me feel better so this fairy tale must be true otherwise it would not make me feel good.

How about all the others gods mankind come up and did the same for those believers?

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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