Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

Lol's you are as old as you feel Spades, 35 I reckon... I have one more year before I turn the big 50, If Elle McPherson doesn't care neither do I I just don't need a fuss, so I am not going to remind you what date it is

Thanks for the thought, appreciated.

That is how old I thought you said you were! Though you look far from it indeed! I just turned 30...And I think I know the date anyways, but was not positive...

I understand the no fuss, I had a very small party when I turned 30...

Gawd,

Don't be silly I am going to party like it's 1999

It's also David's birthday two weeks later, so we get two parties

No "fuss" here is what I meant....I expect you to now forget, you are getting sleeeepy.................................

I promise, I can do that for you, as a gift from me...

After that, I can not make that promise...

I will forget the whole thing, once they go, or stop perpetuating it...

After? lols ...

Ok, double ended, I am going to lose I can tell. I won't, I will.

Lose what? I do not understand....

You will never lose anything from me, as your friend on here!!!

You will win, As I will back off, for you as a gift and a token of my appreciation of you as a friend on here...

Because you have shown nothing but love, and friendship, so I can only show the same in return...Which I will do....

After that, I am just saying, I can not fully guarantee that I will not tell them how I feel, as they are not holding back how they feel...

I am sorry, But I just do not have the patience you do, and I can not pretend to like someone who I genuinely do not...That is not saying that you do....You have the patience of a Saint....I do not....

For you see, even as we speak, and I talk to you about your birthday...

One of them continues to perpetuate the anger and hatefulness with the votes...

They voted Spendi down, and he had nothing to do with any of it, at all...

It did not even matter to them...

At least half of them, I have never even seen before in my life, and they came here, and backed a friend, who was caught red-handed, asked a simple how come? And dodged it...

They came to a thread I created, and looked to tarnish my appearance...Just to prove a point...

When again, I do not even know half of them...

That tells me, they are just as evil as these other people they "think" are evil

I have no reason to be any of their friends...

I am sorry if this offends you...As they may be yours...

But I am just being honest with you, like a friend should...

They are continuing to perpetuate the situation...And will not back off, after I dropped it...

And they may not have said anything hateful directly to me, but 4 or 5 of them coming in here...and purposely voting me and Spendi down, when they do not know me, and I do not know them, is hateful in my book...

So it will be hard for me to forget that...

I do not need everyone to like me...

I only need one person in my life, to help me have some kind of explosion in my life, to make it worthwhile...

As a matter of fact, you, Izzy, and Wmwcjr, Logic etc....being my friends...

Makes up for 10,000 adversaries, each friend...

So the reason I act good is because of you guys, and nothing else...Which incorporates God....And keeps me going on here...The rest of them who do what they do...

And could care less about me...Are just another adversary...In my mission of Jesus...

If they have no desire to even get to know me, or like me...I feel no reason to do the same...

If that is how they want things, then that is how they will be treated...

I'm not really sleepy at all...

Just very saddened at the way this whole thing has gone down, and continues to do so....You know what I mean...

As a matter of fact, you, Izzy, and Wmwcjr, Logic etc....being my friends... Very Happy Very Happy

Makes up for 10,000 adversaries, each friend..

Sorry, forgot Rex, and Ddj in there as well...

Dearest Mr Spades...

The World is made up of a whole lot of different people. Some are patient, some are not..

Do you really think that you could be friends with everyone you meet in life? In real life or via the Internet, as some definately become friends in real life.. But, no, that's not possible, we can't be friends to everyone. Not everyone likes me, not everyone will like you.

Does it really bother you that much ? It honestly shouldn't. Don't you only want people in your life that give you the time of day? If they don't want to, then maybe they don't belong in your life, ever thought of that?

People have opinions as well and you know I strongly believe that people should be themselves, regardless.. We live only once so why be someone we are not.

What you have to understand is acceptance. Reading all of that, and the past two pages Accept people for who they are, I'm no Saint.. I'm a bad girl, sort off But, I accept everyone for who they are. I would have laughed, I see no need for anger.. Well except for my Property Manager and her bitchy thing she's doing, but even then it's more of.. What comes around goes around and I'll work as hard as I can to stand by my belief.

Anyways now you've got me rambling.

If you feel that you want to succeed on your particular journey. I don't see anger, swearing and needing to be part of it. In fact quite the opposite.

I don't know if I have patience, doubt it...

Are you speaking for yourself or are you speaking for most Christians? Don't most Christians teach that Homosexuality is wrong? Is this one of Jesus's teachings?



Atheist that are ethicist probably will not be doing the things that Bill was questioning Christians about.



Sure most of them do fail at what Marvin teaches but do they open synagogs or types of institutions claiming that their morality comes from some type of God or that it is empirically correct and that there will never be a better way to understand morality than the way their god or their thinking has revealed it to them?




I think that what atheist like Bill are saying is. "wake up Christians, "look at how your Christian leaders are teaching you it is OK to go to war and how to commit other grave sins against your neighbors.



If Dr katz was teaching morality but also taught that homosexuality was a sin or that going to war with Iraq was a just war, I would think that it would only be right for people to make fun of his ability to not see his own ignorance. Some times comedy is a teaching tool.

If Christians try to claim that they get their morality from a moralist such as Jesus and then say things like what is written below, should it be brought to their attention even if it hurts to see their own behavior?

Your stubborn refusal to understand these things rl, despite them having been explained to you a few times, presents a severe limitation on your intellectual growth.

Christians teach that robbing banks is wrong. You seem unable to understand that a moral doctrine has a pragmatic purpose and that the pragmatic purpose is the genesis of the moral doctrine which is merely a method of inculcating it.

On your argument drug taking and trafficking is legitimate. Where does Jesus say that they are wrong?

Why wouldn't they? stealing is wrong isn't it?



If it is harmful to yourself or others I would not think that it would be good but I guess in your mind that a moralist such as Jesus may approve?.

If it is an addictive drug "not Food or a required substance" and you want to take it, that is your business or your choice, but when you try to profit from getting people hooked on drugs then it becomes a sin in my opinion, I would love to hear your view.

That is exactly what I am saying....No I do not think everyone will like me, and I am fine with it...the ones who are my friends, are the ones who make it worthwhile to even get up, and come on here to talk about God....

Yes, I have, and said I agree with this...I am not concerned about them, just as they are not concerned about me...That is also why I said I can not pretend to like people, who I do not...And act like an adversary to me...The ones who support me, or give an ear, are the ones who make it worth it, and the reason I do it...It honestly does bother me...As it should not even be an option to vote someone down, because it can be easily manipulated to make someone look like an Idiot...When all I have ever done is discussed things with atheists for the majority of this entire thread...They voted each other up to puff out there chests and said nothing beneficial...And called this thread a joke...When I discuss things and they did not...

And if they are not even going to explain the vote down, and just vote me down, and run away...That bothers me...If they were interested in me, or anything about me, they would keep the vote in their pocket, and explain there problems with what I have said...

That is exactly why I do not regret telling them how I feel about them...I regret the anger, as it is not necessary, but they understand my view...Just like I got theirs....

So sorry to hear your a bad girl!!! And have no patience, it seems like you do to me!!!

I gave my view and that of the Church in my last post. Can't you go from there or dispute it. The pragmatic gives rise to the proscription. The pragmatic can only be decided by an authority if anarchy is to be avoided. Reject the authority and you automatically licence everybody else to do the same in regard to any matters they choose.

The Church authority says that homosexuality has negative consequences for society as a whole and thus it is not only pragmatic to condemn it, it's a duty. The methods to condemn it follow from that and only serve the purpose of trying to avoid the negative consequences.

So instead of continually attacking Christians, a complete lily-livered cop out, you should be extolling the positive pragmatic consequences for society as a whole, and in the foreseeable future, of homosexuality becoming acceptable and not just to those who are homosexuals but also for those who might find it more convenient than heterosexuality or, as with the libertine, something to try out either for fun or to take up T.S.Eliot's challenge that women were too easy to seduce and as such beneath the dignity of an intellectual gentleman.

You should be arguing that the consequences are not negative. That they are positive or at least neutral. But doing that requires you to consider life in 50 or 100 years and not just your present personal circumstances which I am not convinced your capacities are up to.

If you could show that the consequence were merely neutral you would cut down the props of Christian teaching on this subject. That you can't is the reason for faulting your opponents and keeping the spotlight off yourself except in regard of flagging up your sympathies with homosexuals.

What does it matter what the Church teaches to those who reject its authority? You are never going to change the Church's view on this issue.

Are you cruising?

Why does it matter? I am speaking, and am a Christian...

Yes...

It came from God, but from a biblical standpoint, And what Jesus said, despite the laws, probably not...And I have explained what I think it means...Just like the law said to stone adulterers, but Jesus did not do so with the woman at the well, now did he??

So then, you are saying that Bill was not being Moral then, right?

Nope, but they may very well do that some day in the future...

And again, you keep beating around this...Just because someone claims to have morals from a God, and institution, does not mean that people do not suck at keeping them...It is an intellectually honest thing to admit, you are not being moral...An atheist, listening to Jesus' ethics, and morality, and thinking they have a free pass, because they know they can not keep the morality, is even worse...Because you ultimately are not being honest with yourself and others...Either you see no relevance in what Jesus actually said, or two, you do, and think that because you are an atheist, it gives you the automatic right to dodge what you think is morally correct...It is not logical thinking...

And I think what Bill is doing, is saying you guys are friggen Idiots, and I think it is funny...But I will do the same, and I am right, because I am not a Christian, just like you guys are...I find relevance in what Jesus said, but it is acceptable for me to think violence is a good thing, because I do not fully embrace Jesus, and you guys can not do the same, as your god forbids it...

Well, I disagree, I do not think anyone laughing at anyone, will ever get anyone to wake up, all it will do is piss them off, and jade them farther, that is why I do not believe Katz, and Bill are on the same side...Katz does it morally correct even by this Christians standard, Bill does not...That is why no one would ever laugh at Katz, as he does not do it to others...And why I would not have a problem with someone laughing at Bill, Since he thinks it is funny to laugh at Christians...So, am I wrong? Or is that my learning tool for ignorance? And a comedy teaching tool?


Yes, it should be! And I have said I was wrong about it, and will continue to do so...That is the difference you do not seem to understand...That is what makes me an honest person...How many people have you seen me get very verbal with? (a lot right?) (and how many of them, have said they were being immoral when we fought? other than me?) (not many right?) I may act like an asshole, but I have no problem listening to people tell me so...When an atheist, who claims to be progressing humanity comes to me, and says they were morally wrong, I will welcome them with open arms! Till then, and when they keep thinking they are always moral, or it is a flaw to submit yourself...Or think they are above morality, As they never say they think they are morally wrong...Or even laugh at a Christian, I have no value in even listening to them about my morals and morality...I have taken the steps it takes to be a better more moral person...Them denying that they even are immoral, or have a problem...Or thinking being immoral is moral, because you do not fully believe Jesus, but like what he had to say...Is even worse...

Now, can I go pick out about ten posts from ten different people, who act the same, and think they are not being immoral, and ask them if they have a problem with it? Or need to realize they are immoral? I bet 8 or 9 of the ten are atheists...What would you say to them about what they think they are doing? As you have pointed out my flaws? Would you suggest something like Marvin Katz to them? Or is it acceptable for them to do, Because they do not embrace Jesus fully, or go to an institution??

Even though, I may have anger problems on here, as I am not like this in person...I am an honest person, and tell people what I feel, and recant or apologize when it is also needed...Something very few others do on here....

So even if I am wrong, Am I being immoral? At the end of the day, no I am not, because I have come to terms with the fact I was being immoral...If someone presents themselves as not being immoral, that is a bigger deal...Because we all know we are immoral, and some think that they never are...

It is better to be immoral, and free yourself, but accepting it, and saying it, and apologizing if needed...Then it is to deny that there is even a problem there, in the first place....Which many many on here do...

Render to Caesar etc.... and Caesar was about nothing else but stealing, thieving, spoil and loot and a number of other things. If there's to be no rendering to God there's only Caesar left.

Such things became wrong because they had negative consequences. Namely: a profound sense of hopelessness that Rome had foundered and the Pagan hordes were massing on the fringes.

One might argue that they still are on the basis of the map of Europe showing the locations of societies in need of banking bailouts and those providing them.

Of course we will change the church's view on morality, it is our job silly.

It is after we educate the majority on any given subject that the church leaders stop calling things that are incorrect, "correct" or things that are immoral, "moral" because if the church did not change it would lose even more followers.

It not only matters Spade, it is the crux of the argument.

As I have explained.

That may be true with people, but it does not mean you will ever alter the Church...

People will become more and more wicked as times goes...The Church is not gonna fall...

Church will stay the same, just almost no one will go when things get bad...

People are the ones who are gonna change...You look at it as a great time of optimism, I look at it as depressing...

That people say some of the things that they do...

I can only guess that even you would agree with Bill about what he thinks that the Christians are being idiots about, when they do the things he was talking about and if not please explain.

I was not trying to go into a discussion about Bill's morality but rather was curious if you thought that what he was stating about "most" Christians was accurate and if it is true is it possible that the church that they are going to is teaching them this immorality?