Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

I do not really understand what you are saying here...

Are you saying you think I am easily fooled, and claim to have an epiphany?

You are doing such a good job of discrediting Christianity Spade that I am beginning to wonder whether that is your objective.

It is not, And you know it is not, I do not believe you were being truthful there, no offense....Just look at my pic! It is a constant reminder to anyone who slams me to look at that pic in the face to see who they are insulting, because it goes deeper than me....And I do not know what makes you think judging people is a Good thing....

I have said this maybe 3 times already, and will say it once more....Because you seem to dismiss it, or you're not listening, and thinking about what I am saying....Please listen to what I am saying very carefully....

I do not know exactly how you feel about me....But I know that I like you, because we are not against one another....The battle is not between you and I....If Christians can not trust other Christians, then all hope is lost....

You believe in the church highly, I do too, but believe they have somethings wrong....Well in any event, the Catholic Church believes you must do three things to be saved....

You must believe in your heart

You must confess with your mouth

And if you believe Jesus Died, and was resurrected you will be saved....

Which we both do all 3 of those things

So no matter what else you agree or disagree with what I say, you are not my enemy, and I am not yours....

The Miracle I consider with the tree, may sound ridiculous to you, because it does not look authentic today....

But think about it, First, It was 20 years ago when it appeared....And two, much more important....The miracle was not the image in the tree, but the fact it brought a sinful city together for about 3 or 4 solid years I would say if not more....You can think a tree is ridiculous if you really want to, if it brings thousands together, and people stop doing evil, People travel far distances just to see it...and people get to know one another, light candles, sing, praise Jesus etc...From it....It WAS A MIRACLE! It would not have ordinarily happened...

And second, Again, I am not against you, but you seem to be against me....

I don't know what to tell you to make you feel better about my personal epiphany experience....If you truly believe it is all hogwash, than that is fine...But please leave it alone now....I am not trying to rub your face in the dirt, but you keep trying to do it to me....

All I am doing is what I believe is right in telling people what God has told me to do so....

Is there a chance I could be telling the truth about that?

If I am a sick person, I am in Heaven anyways, For the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs....

If I am not sick, then I am spreading the words of God, that he has told me, and sent me here to do and say....

I never said you have to believe it, I never tried to force you to accept it etc....

Your opinion is yours...and I respect that, so please respect mine....

I am not gonna change you, and you're not gonna change me....

I am not against you, or a threat, and the same for you toward me....

I may say things that go against the Christian scripture, but that is my punishment if I am wrong, not yours....

I claim to be Christian despite the difference in what God tells me, to what others believe....

If a Prophet was to come, what do you believe they would do??

Lastly, think about this one for a bit, before you respond....If what I am saying is in fact not truly happening to me....and there is no purpose for it to be....

Why would I say what I say, and still claim to be Christian???

Why would I not just claim there is a God, but this is what I believe??

Why would I specifically say these things, AND promote Christ is the way, life, truth? If everything I say about what God tells me to speak is not real???

If I wanted to be Christian, and it was not happening to me, Why would I not just preach exactly what is written in the Scriptures???

Do you really believe you can live your life based upon a book??

The Bible even says in the end...Last 2 or 3 paragraphs....ALL OF GODS WORDS CAN NOT BE SUMMED INTO ONE BOOK! GODS WORDS ARE ONGOING>>>BECAUSE HE IS ONGOING....

I have read it all, and know them well....

Don't you believe if Christ was here, he would tell people about hope, love, mercy, acceptance, forgiveness, piece etc....

Or do you really believe he is going to come and just cast people into Hell forever??

So what exactly am I saying that makes Christianity look foolish??

That everyone has a chance, and it is up to the mortal??

God would give everyone a chance, or not create them....and if they condemn themselves....Then he never was in the wrong either way....

Reincarnation may exist??

Sorry, but this is what I feel God is telling me, as to how it may be....But I am honest about it, just like he tells me to speak....It WILL NOT BE THE FIRST CHOICE, it is a multiple option to be saved....

There may be no such thing as Hell or the Devil?? And everyone may make it into Heaven??

Is that really a bad thing?? Please Think about it, will you??

This is the only one you can argue to me...

You do not need to know Christ but God to get to Heaven....

Let me explain, perhaps I said it wrong....YOU WILL NEED TO KNOW CHRIST>>>NO DOUBT.....

But there will be billions and billions who do not know Christ right now, who will be smart enough to accept him, and make it....And there are ones who know God, but not Christ...who God says will ultimately fall....

So you need Christ....Always....But if you Know God, you know God it is simple to see in people if they know God or not....

God is going to save, he is not going to condemn

Jesus says, the gate to Hell is wide, but the gate to Heaven is narrow???

Do you believe he is saying many more will go to Hell than Heaven??

I don't think so....

He is saying, there are many ways to stray off the right path, but there is only one way to make it to Heaven, and is is direct, and straight, right to the right way....Directly to the point....thru Christ....

If you really believe I am blowing that much smoke, that is fine, I respect that....But please leave it be....I am not here to flip your beliefs around....and if I embrace Christ, which I do, you should not be trying to do it to me....That is all I am asking, once again....

I know what God has told me to do, I know why I am here, and I am gonna do it....

When you go public with a religious message you are offering yourself up for judgement. And with any other message. Being judged, whether a good thing or not, is a lot better than not being judged which is always Bad.



Not at all.



I don't think it has anything wrong. To think it has anything wrong soon arrives at the conclusion it has everything wrong.



Which we don't.



In a general sense I am not your enemy but in relation to what you are saying here I am your enemy.

The Church is a powerful institution going back many centuries and during that time it has become well used to wild-eyed messianic types with the gift of the gab taking advantage of a certain section of the population in the service of separating themselves from the crowd. To get an easier job for example. They will adhere to selected parts of the Church's doctrines in order that they seem more plausible. The Church employed various methods to deal with these loose, self-appointed preachers such as inviting them to join the Church and undergoing the long years of theological training with a view to them taking the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience and becoming authorised to preach and conduct rituals of one sort or another as the population requires.

If the population accepted that these important rituals could be left in the hands of anybody who claimed a vision of Jesus in a tree and was hearing God's own messages we would very soon have more messiahs than shopworkers. And the whole Christian edifice would fragment as the most beautiful chandelier in the world would fragment if it fell from its fastenings.

Another method was to explain the way the cookie crumbles to them and if they carried on preaching after that to hand them over to the Inquisition. The severity of the Inquisition, which is possibly exaggerated by pantsdowners for obvious reasons, is a function of the insecurity of the Church at any particular time. With hordes of pagans and barbarians massing on the fringes of the Empire one might readily appreciate the level of insecurity being palpably felt.

In our times the worst that can be expected is some opposition and heckling at the preaching point which is not much of a deterrent.

The situation is a logical and quite natural outcome of the separation of Church and State.


I have seen a sinful region brought into temporary togetherness by a dog falling down a disused mineshaft.

When you go public with a religious message you are offering yourself up for judgement. And with any other message. Being judged, whether a good thing or not, is a lot better than not being judged which is always Bad.



Not at all.



I don't think it has anything wrong. To think it has anything wrong soon arrives at the conclusion it has everything wrong.



Which we don't.



In a general sense I am not your enemy but in relation to what you are saying here I am your enemy.

The Church is a powerful institution going back many centuries and during that time it has become well used to wild-eyed messianic types with the gift of the gab taking advantage of a certain section of the population in the service of separating themselves from the crowd. To get an easier job for example. They will adhere to selected parts of the Church's doctrines in order that they seem more plausible. The Church employed various methods to deal with these loose, self-appointed preachers such as inviting them to join the Church and undergoing the long years of theological training with a view to them taking the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience and becoming authorised to preach and conduct rituals of one sort or another as the population requires.

If the population accepted that these important rituals could be left in the hands of anybody who claimed a vision of Jesus in a tree and was hearing God's own messages we would very soon have more messiahs than shopworkers. And the whole Christian edifice would fragment as the most beautiful chandelier in the world would fragment if it fell from its fastenings.

Another method was to explain the way the cookie crumbles to them and if they carried on preaching after that to hand them over to the Inquisition. The severity of the Inquisition, which is possibly exaggerated by pantsdowners for obvious reasons, is a function of the insecurity of the Church at any particular time. With hordes of pagans and barbarians massing on the fringes of the Empire one might readily appreciate the level of insecurity being palpably felt.

In our times the worst that can be expected is some opposition and heckling at the preaching point which is not much of a deterrent.

The situation is a logical and quite natural outcome of the separation of Church and State.

I have seen a sinful region brought into temporary togetherness by a dog falling down a disused mineshaft. During the last phases of its rescue I daresay a lot of evil was put on hold.



As I suggested at the outset, if you stick your fissog over the parapet you will get dirt rubbed in your face. It's called peer-reviewing ot the Devil's Advocate.

On these matters my opinion is not mine. It is the Church's. You are not in the slightest a threat to me. I am a threat to you though.

With all due respect of course.

Apologies for the finger trouble.

I bet you say that to all the ladies.

Not a statistically significant enough sample to draw any hard and fast conclusions from. Possibly barely sufficient for a tentative hypothesis to hold any water.

So then, would it be fair for me to judge you??

Even though scripture says judge not be not judged??

So then, you follow your own rules at times, and deviate from scripture??? How is that different than what I am doing???

Pretty dam close, and if you argue the other way, you prove my points....It would not matter what is taught so long as you have faith in Christ....

Which we both do all 3 of those things

So sorry, So then the Catholic Church is wrong about that??

Which you think the church has somethings wrong then!

The Catholic Church says....If you believe in your heart, confess with your mouth, and believe Jesus died and was raised from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED....That is salvation in Christ....

Do me a favor, from an intelligent Christian perspective please answer these questions I posed earlier....

Since I have already been here, and done this...What am I supposed to do, When I am in Church, or hear someone else preaching....And I can hear or feel God saying that is not how it was, but this is how it is....Or Go and tell them that God says this....

What am I supposed to do when that happens?? Believe in what a Mortal man does and says, because he thinks it is right, Or listen to God telling me to tell him or them otherwise??? If you heard God's voice, are you telling me you think you would be able to silence it???

What would you do??

You believe in the church highly, I do too, but believe they have somethings wrong.

Scripture says, When you have 100 sheep...and 99 are fine, and one goes astray, do you not leave the 99 alone and go after the one who is lost?? Of course you do, because you do not need to worry about the 99, they are fine, they already made it! You need to go after the one who is lost....

The Church says, that around 1 percent, or less than 1% of fathers molest children....

You do not believe it would be wise to make the creed say that a Father would be able to marry, and still be faithful to God? He MUST be celibate??

The 99 who are faithful, are still going to be celibate....Where as the one who are lost, will marry, and that percent will cut in half over night, because Fathers will NOT BE SEXUALLY frustrated....

Is God wrong for telling me to tell this to the Pope?? Or is it better to keep that in the Church doctrine, and watch children be molested?? Because 1 out of 100 are lost?

Is it better to help the one lost one? Or preserve the 99 saved??

Judge away Spades. I am not deviating from Scripture. Your quote is qualified. If I am prepared to be judged I may judge.



That's heretical for the reasons I gave.



Where?

Who is this other person you hear preaching?

I would go talk to a seasoned Jesuit priest.

You would send him to a Jebbie?

I never realized you would resort to cruelty.

The problem with the argument from those sinning priests is that if they did not do what they do your case based upon them falls down. So you need them.

And there is the possibility that they are not really priests but people who have conned their way into the Church and are masquerading as priests.

Which is a failure of the Church it must be admitted but in terms of recruitment and discipline.

I didn't say I would send him. I simply offered the advice.

Somebody like the character Karl Malden played in On the Waterfront.

If that is the way you look at it...I do not...So I will say I bless and forgive you...and rebuke you...For it is not right for a mortal to judge a mortal that is God's hand

If you wish to judge, then remember all those others who judge you in return! and that includes atheists and agnostics as well...

I will chose not to judge you, so you have no reason to judge me anymore....

Go look up what the Catholic Church believes is the simplest, and smallest thing you can do to have salvation...And you will find it...

I have heard dozens of Catholic Priests say it in my time....

And how do you think this will ever happen??

First, I am not wrong and scripture backs this up too! First, the First Priests were able to procreate, or there would be no Priests today, So being celibate, is not a requirement to be faithful to God....As no one truly is anyways...

Second, It says in scripture, that if you even think about adultery in your mind, your guilty of doing it....

So it stands to believe the same is true about celibacy.....There is almost half if not more of Catholic Priests who are guilty of not really being celibate....or adultery, because I imagine they have thought about having sex with a women...Some with men, and Some think about others wives and spouses....

So it is not a small percent...It is a lot higher than that based upon scripture....

So is it better to be faithful to God, and be married, and preach his words? Or is it better to claim your celibate, when according to scripture you are not???

What credit is it to a man, to claim he is celibate, and being judged because he lusted? Over being married, and faithful to his wife, and preaching the words of God??

The second is better, because your not trying to lie to God about who you are...

If you claim to be celibate, but are not based on scripture, it is worse, than being married, and preaching the words of God....Because at least your not trying to trick God into something you're not....(this is not me, go read scripture, if you do not believe me)

Celibacy was something adopted by one of the earlier Popes...It says nothing of the sort in order to be a preacher of God, in the Bible....Like I said, If my memory is correct, the first ones...The Ammonites or whatever they were called...were procreating...

It started in 1123...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Were_priests_once_allowed_to_marry

The Vatican adopted something they thought was important....But it is a mans heart...not his penis....that makes him holy or not....

Priests should be allowed to marry, and so it would cut down on the lost ones....

If priests get in, and are reprimanded, and cast out, which is not that bad of an option honestly, How would you do it??

And as we get closer to the end, would that not be Satan trying to destroy the Church, based on things like this one?

Does it not make more sense to update the creed of the church to allow them to be faithful, and saved from sin...rather than condemned, and cast out??

Or do you believe God is vengeful? Or merciful??

Would Jesus forgive them? Or send them to Hell for it??

If your answer is Hell, Who among us is not going there??

What kind of discipline do you suggest that you think would work? Even if they were cast out of priesthood, it still does not stop a molester on the loose now....and now, they can hide in the shadows....If we embrace and update the creed to stop it...It more than likely will be men coming to terms with the fact they have a problem....The number would be cut in half....And they would feel forgiveness, because they would not hide it....And seek God for repentance, and therefor, be forgiven by God...Not men, But God....

Other men will always cast stones, But faithful ones will understand everyone falls short of perfection, and all our hands are just as bloody in other ways...

You are not supposed to suppress sin, but accept it, and repent....

If we do nothing, the number is only gonna grow...If you change the creed....Then it stands to believe the numbers would drop...Save the lost ones, not better the found ones....Better solution....

The Good priests have no need for change....If they wanted to be clean of sex for God, they would....The bad Priests are always gonna do bad....You have to help the bad ones, not advance the good ones....

New International Version (©1984)
Luke 15:3-15:7

3-Then Jesus told them this parable:

4-"If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them gets lost, what will he do? Won't he leave the ninety-nine others in the wilderness and go to search for the one that is lost until he finds it?

5-And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders

6-and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.'


7-I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

And if you say something to me like, Do you not think these Priests should be punished??

That is not my call....You would be putting me in an awkward position....I do not judge, and so I won't be judged...even if by men, I will not by God...Says the same book we both embrace...

I also know I am not without sin, so I will not be the first to cast a stone...

If you chose to judge people...And cast stones and condemn...Then understand, that is the same measuring stick and reed God is going to judge you by...

That is why I do not believe it is smart to do that....

Whether You or I think they are evil is irrelevant...God is the one who is supposed to judge....

And I also do no have a problem with speaking about a God of Piece, Mercy, Love, acceptance, Forgiveness, Patience etc...

Because what ever you sow out in Christs name, you reap 100 fold....

And those are all the things I want from God in return here on Earth...

If you go the other way, which you say you do...Then that is what you will reap in return....

This is what the Bible says....The same book we both embrace...

This is not me here...Or my own perceptions....

Its all cool I know how busy we all get and everything so don't get in a rush because it does not need to be the first thing you do tomorrow just when ever you find time and do not have more important things than talking about ethics. Then you can let me know what you think.