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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 07:45 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
You may find that this squares the circle between Christianity and Buddhism.
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/freke_Gandy_lostGoddess.php
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 07:57 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

ok, I am sorry, please explain what specifically ignoring true nature of reality is? and if you think I don't understand (for taking in "new teachings" is NOT easy) please simplify it for me...

thank you!


Don't worry I understand.

When you meditate we can get a wordless understanding of the true nature of reality, but until we do we think that reality can be elaborated and because it can't then naturally our attempts at elaborating it, ignore that it can't be elaborated. This type of ignorance leads to us thinking and acting in ways that are at odds with the way reality really is and so many of our actions are based on negative emotions such as (in the worst cases) murder, rape, etc.. etc.. We feel something is missing but we don't know what, so hatred and unquenchable desire naturally arise due to this ignorance and we suffer over and over again until we understand the root cause and remove it. Again this is my explanation of the 'Relative Truth' from a Buddhist perspective on the meaning of 'Ultimate Truth' which can only be experienced not explained.

You'll see from what I've said that I'm really only making the same point over and over again but some angles work better than others; that’s why the Buddha was said to have given 84,000 different teachings with basically the same message but from different angles and different amounts of detail and focusing on different aspects of his realization.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:08 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

so whatever you reality is reflected back from your mind "decides" your rebirth? from one life to the next?

Yes, you could put it that way if I understand you correctly.

The state of our mind and how alienated we are from reality’s true nature is the cause of where in reality we should be e.g. if we are mainly humane in our view when we die should be human in our next life. If we were human but during our life we increased our hatred for others then we may (if it's not to strong) still be human but our life will be less pleasant than in our previous life. If hatred is strong then we cannot be human our mind would not be suitable for it. So this is how I would try to explain in words and you have also shown that you have understood something about this 'Relative Truth' way of thinking about it.

These states of mind are temporary so we go from on life to the next and one type of life to the next due to the state of our mind.

0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:13 am
@igm,
it is just VERY difficult for me to "understand" the root causes of our suffering if it can't be explained...other than meditation it which it is wordlessly explained...

from my "perspective" I would follow Buddhist religion that accepts a HIGHER being, because it makes more sense that someone of higher understandings can "decide" our rebirths....I don't understand the whole mind is matter and reflects and decides our rebirth...how can we not deceive ourselves? ex: I act prideful, but honestly think I am helping people...with a Higher being it makes it "to me" appropriate to see that "they" would show us our negative actions and or positive ones, and then there is NO DENYING our rebirth...Also, what if one was to be split half way with negative and positive reflections, how would they be reborn?

Also, what are your beliefs as to deaths, and or burials or grievings? there was a Buddhist who lived in my complex and he pasted on and there was a monk seen walking, just curious as to what he was doing?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:33 am
@izzythepush,
this, is someones hypothesis, with which it can be shown that by following this false mythilogical being (Jesus) people value and show reflections of light...in their lives...also look up miracles of Mary, and it can be seen, that Christian text is "right on" you never see Mary as a prostitute or evil, but you ALWAYS see her as described in the Bible...
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:37 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
It makes a far more intellectual case than any 'mainstream' Christian writings I've come across, just my opinion.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:37 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Put simply we are responsible for our own actions. We will experience the results of those actions. When you see someone getting away with a crime in this life...they don't because their mind is altered and they will then have a lesser life when the effects of their crime is experienced...in some future life.

So Buddhists try to be virtuous because they know that they will 'reap what they sow' and if it's non-virtuous they damage their mind and suffer for it. It's cause and effect - no need for a God to punish. Rebirths mean plenty of time to learn not just one short life, (no christening and so no heaven doesn’t seem fair but if your short life didn’t manage to fit in a christening then that’s hard luck). Again this is all 'Relative Truth'.

So based on a 'Relative Truth' understanding we meditate and then we eventually know reality's true nature and are untouched by worldly concerns but can show others how to do the same thing because Enlightenment is not a place but a state of mind.

Ordinary humans can be Buddhas because our nature is the same. Buddha's are far from ordinary so humans and all sentient beings are far from ordinary when Enlightened... according to the explanation of the qualities of a Buddha.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:41 am
@izzythepush,
also. since you brought it up I DO see "in my perceptions" that Satan has ONE MAIN bride, and her name is Satania....just like (the Father) has Mary, but I do not see they were one, who were split...So I don't accept this hypothesis, but the reading was interesting...

thank you
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 08:51 am
@igm,
I feel the same way in ALL will reap what they sow....and believe it is not ness. God who punishes, but they themselves who punish themselves, rebirths do give plenty of time, and I have said that it may in fact exist, but if one reaches in Christianity their enlightenment in one life (HEAVEN) there is No need for them to be reborn either, "in my perspective" Also I don"t agree in the fact of not being christening you can't make it to Heaven...the fact of Excepting Jesus IS BAPTISM, and Conformation in my Eyes...not the symbolic action itself...(water etc...)
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 09:04 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

... but if one reaches in Christianity their enlightenment in one life (HEAVEN) there is No need for them to be reborn either, "in my perspective"

But have Christians had time to learn to be able to cope with an eternity in heaven? Some others go through life learning very little and then if you let them off their sins after a purge in hell they don't seem qualified.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Also I don"t agree in the fact of not being christening you can't make it to Heaven...the fact of Excepting Jesus IS BAPTISM, and Conformation in my Eyes...not the symbolic action itself...(water etc...)

What if you're too young to know how to accept Jesus as your savior. The Catholic Church says you must go to purgatory and can’t be buried in church grounds! The Roman Chatholic mothers of these children are devastated at a time of their greatest grief at losing their child!
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 10:31 am
@igm,
Quote:
But have Christians had time to learn to be able to cope with an eternity in heaven? Some others go through life learning very little and then if you let them off their sins after a purge in hell they don't seem qualified.

why would they "need time to cope"? how does it not qualify them? "from your perspectives"

Quote:
What if you're too young to know how to accept Jesus as your savior. The Catholic Church says you must go to purgatory and can’t be buried in church grounds! The Roman Chatholic mothers of these children are devastated at a time of their greatest grief at losing their child!

you'll probably be an Angel or something great in Heaven, or possibility of Another life, I don't agree that the rest of your posts concerning how the church says they will go to purgatory is correct...simply put, Jesus loves more than "they" could possible fathom is my response to "them" and its probably not done the way they say...

here are my problems with Buddhism and rebirths myself, I believe if you reflect light for the most part your worthy of live eternal, if you want it, if you do not reflect light, you are shown your faults by (God) and reborn for "another" chance, for God wants all to be with Him....but about rebirths, if your mostly negative I can sympathize with God "giving you another shot" so that you don't fall, all the way up until the end of time....problem is I don't see "in my perspective" the "need" to be reborn in a lower life form such as an animal...think about it, if your human and bad, chances are or could be you were an animal before you were human, only to do bad and again and be an animal, only to do good and be human again? it's self defeating to me...if the goal is to be enlightened like a Buddha, then it's easy to see that the animal or lower life form is NOT a NESS. step to happen, one being human and being mostly bad makes sense to get "another chance" even if it's done in an enviroment where it's easier for them to be good, (still plausible) to be human and then less than human only to be human again shows it defeats itself...if Buddha is enlightened, he could surely understand the importance of the fact of staying human to understand the "root cause of suffering to the highest regard" where as if your an animal, how do you meditate to be brought closer to Buddhas ways and reach enlightening so that you can in fact be human again?? has anyone ever heard or seen of an animal who does mostly bad things so that they are reborn EVEN lower?? I haven't from my "perspective" therefor, if they were animals the ONLY way is up, showing this step makes no sense...humans are no doubt the HIGHEST life form possible, therefor, if reincarnation exists it would only make sense it is because we "failed the first time" but should try again...as (Humans), and if we succeed, rebirths, or life eternal, whatever exists after death, if we fail, again Another chance as humans to "try" to succeed again till we get it and do it right....I don't see a need to be a lower life form at all...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 10:37 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
also please, I am not angry or wish to be, I am actually trying to understand or have a meaning ful conversation...please reread and answer my question about the death of a Buddhist, and why the Monk was walking about my complex? what are your beliefs as to burials and or grieving?
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 12:26 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
igm wrote:

But have Christians had time to learn to be able to cope with an eternity in heaven? Some others go through life learning very little and then if you let them off their sins after a purge in hell they don't seem qualified.


XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
why would they "need time to cope"? how does it not qualify them? "from your perspectives"


As a Christian as long as you’re happy with that and it makes sense then that’s fine with me.

igm wrote:
What if you're too young to know how to accept Jesus as your savior. The Catholic Church says you must go to purgatory and can’t be buried in church grounds! The Roman Catholic mothers of these children are devastated at a time of their greatest grief at losing their child!



XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
you'll probably be an Angel or something great in Heaven, or possibility of Another life, I don't agree that the rest of your posts concerning how the church says they will go to purgatory is correct...simply put, Jesus loves more than "they" could possible fathom is my response to "them" and its probably not done the way they say...


Yes, I’ve check: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/221601/pope_benedict_xvi_changes_catholic.html

Babies used to go to limbo not purgatory and the Pope has now changed the belief that babies don't go to heaven but it has been limbo for all those babies in the last 800 yrs and all those grieving mother’s had to live with that in the past. Limbo is quite nice but separate from heaven entirely. Of course I don’t believe in any of it but I find it odd why they’d have these outcomes for babies probably because it means the church has the gateway to heaven in their power through christening and baptism.

I must say you do seem to have your own unique Christianity that seems to be accommodating to all. This would have to be backed up with scripture to be truly Christian otherwise it could be seen as changing the faith to suit everyone so as to convert them but frowned upon by those who uphold scripture.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
here are my problems with Buddhism and rebirths myself, I believe if you reflect light for the most part your worthy of live eternal, if you want it, if you do not reflect light, you are shown your faults by (God) and reborn for "another" chance, for God wants all to be with Him....but about rebirths, if your mostly negative I can sympathize with God "giving you another shot" so that you don't fall, all the way up until the end of time


Again, if this is your view and not based on scripture then you can’t really say you are defending Christianity.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
....problem is I don't see "in my perspective" the "need" to be reborn in a lower life form such as an animal...think about it, if your human and bad, chances are or could be you were an animal before you were human, only to do bad and again and be an animal, only to do good and be human again? it's self defeating to me...if the goal is to be enlightened like a Buddha, then it's easy to see that the animal or lower life form is NOT a NESS. step to happen,


For Buddhists it is taught that it’s not a progression to Enlightenment like climbing a ladder. We go round and round born where our mind is best suited its just cause and effect … no escape at all… no progression is certain falling back is much more likely just because that is what happens if you're confused about what to do. Buddhists don’t believe in a start to life so we have had uncountable lives before and done uncountable virtue and non-virtue all of which can ripen into an effect at any time. So it’s all very… very uncertain but its following simple cause and effect. Enlightenment steps out of the framework of cause and effect so your past actions can’t ripen. As usual I end with the qualifier that this is ‘Relative Truth’ a way of using conventional language to make some sense of reality in contemporary words.

To be an animal is said to require a mind of fear at death due to giving up on a belief in cause and effect so you believe just about anything could happen at any time which of course engenders fear.


Humans are best suited to meditation but to be one you have to have a mind dominated by humane characteristics if you don’t then Enlightenment is almost impossible so that makes a Buddhist try to be virtuous because it can take many…many lifetimes to become human again if you spend this life undermining you humanness. You have to wait for previous humane actions done perhaps many lifetimes ago to ripen. I think you can see that mind can be in a state from hell to animal and human and wherever else because of the ripening of the seeds of past actions. They ripen when the conditions are right but they come from all the past actions in uncountable previous lives of virtuous and non-virtuous actions.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 03:29 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I ran across a video last week that has a preacher preaching a message I have never heard before, I think that he has some things wrong but at the same time I think that he also has allot correct!


I do have to say I hate how he stereo types us white people though, He certainly has that part wrong!

I wish others would listen to him and comment on what he has to say. Please try not to give up on him right away because he does speak of some things that I do think should be questioned.


One or two of his videos are of poor quality!




0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2011 09:51 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

...please reread and answer my question about the death of a Buddhist, and why the Monk was walking about my complex? what are your beliefs as to burials and or grieving?

I don't think that it will help this topic. If you send me a PM explaining why you'd find this useful to you then I can consider it and reply to your PM.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2011 12:23 pm
@igm,
Quote:
I must say you do seem to have your own unique Christianity that seems to be accommodating to all. This would have to be backed up with scripture to be truly Christian otherwise it could be seen as changing the faith to suit everyone so as to convert them but frowned upon by those who uphold scripture.

Simply put, the ONLY scripture I can say backs up what I am in fact saying, is in the Book of Revelations, or the Revelation of Jesus Christ as it is called the last book of the Bible says, that ALL of Gods laws and or ways can NOT simply be put into one book, and that Gods words are ongoing, and therefor, you understand more when either you die or choose to accept more in your life....for me personally, I have the gift of Prophecy so it is easy for me to see how deep the rabbit hole goes so to speak with a lot of things that don't add up or can't be explained, or in fact may even be done incorrect just because the initial viewpoint of how it is SUPPOSSED to be done may be wrong...I have trusted Gods voice in me as to certain things I Have said things and have gone back and reread the Bible and found out that my perceptions were correct, so therefor, simply put in terms of actual factual scripture that exists to prove these things, can't be done, and I don't mean to offend anyone even other Christians, I don't also want to be viewed as a soothsayer, which by me stating that one may have to fight demons to reach Heaven, or even be purged shows that I am in fact not being a soothsayer, "in my views"...I am just stating things from my perspective that I see deeper than most, and embracing every form of belief, which is how I think Christ himslef would do things if he were he walking the earth today himself....

Also, sorry I left our discussion in the balance there for a few days, I was busy, I WILL send you a pm and ask you about your burial beliefs in a few days....thank you have a great day, also, for the record if your happy with your beliefs and are mostly a reflection of light in your life, your doing a good thing "trust" me....
Josef cv
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 01:52 pm
@Ragman,
Is it hard for you to get laid as often as you'd like?
0 Replies
 
Josef cv
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 01:54 pm
@boomerang,
I say feed the homeless to the hungry.
Josef cv
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 02:22 pm
@hingehead,
Who would want to exist for eternity in a place where there is no sex, where there is constant singing of hosannas, constant cacophonies of harp playing, men who hate to sing wailing away for eternity, a place where all the nations of earth are mixed into one common jumble. All are on equality absolute, no one of them ranking another; they have to be "brothers"; they have to mix together, pray together, harp together, hosannah together - whites, blacks, Jews, everybody - there's no distinction. On earth, all nations hate each other, and every one of them hates the Jew. Yet every pious person adores that heaven and wants to get into it. They really do. And when they are in holy rapture they think that they would take all the populace to their hearts and hug, and hug, and hug!
0 Replies
 
MMarciano
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2011 02:29 pm
@Josef cv,
I see you're over here acting the fool now.
0 Replies
 
 

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