Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

I can not see how anyone honestly, would look at someone like Mother Teresa as a sub god, rather , someone "used" not to be tacky, to show that "A God" can exist, ie) Miracles do exist... It's how supposidly Jesus showed people, how else can the deceased show that faith and belief can create miracles? Etc.....

It really can not....And is not reasonable to claim that people "think" a Saint Or anything else are a sub-god...

Do not know why Bill thinks this is the case...Especially is he does not embrace a theism...

0 Replies

Found Soul, And Others this is the song I will be singing when I am drinking on my 30th Birthday in 3 days!! Wink

Don't be afraid to turn the volume up and sing this song! Wink

0 Replies

@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

I think God does a pretty good job, through the "beholders" speaking his definition to anyone that wishes to listen.

I think that many atheist and agnostics have tried just as hard as theists, to believe there is a God but something happened and they were not able to logically believe in a God, because logic got in the way. I am not saying that you do not use logic because everyone does but when it comes to religion theist seem to turn it off because it gets in the way of believing.
That may not necessarily be the reason they do not use it.
The real reason is that the belief in a God is probably a survival component for us humans. it seems to help us deal with very hard times and it is part of a very old superstition component that also helps us to survive.

I do have a question though, Do you think that there is any criteria that both an atheist and a theist can agree on that would demonstrate that a person is believing something that is not true? Example someone who thinks that they are Jesus and will try and prove to us that they are.
Is there any type of system that both theist and atheist can use to demonstrate that it is only in that persons head? I would Hope so but I would say that we probably would not be able to show the person who thinks that he is Jesus because that person will not be able to use logical reasoning in that part of their life but they will be able to use it in many other parts of their life.

Many people in other cultures believe in all sorts of crazy things but to them it is normal.

4 Replies

@reasoning logic,

One thing you don't use is logic. You may believe that you do, but that's all it is, a belief. When you stop believing mad women with megaphones, who claim that America is still part of the British Empire, you might sound a little less delusional. I can't see that happening though, because you just can't let go of your fantasies.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Come on silly Izzy you are here looking for attention, why not show us how smart you really are and be a part of the conversation. "add value if you can" Any of us can belittle another person, it is the easiest thing to do, it requires no self control.

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

I will give my perspective to add to the post...Even though it was not addressed to me....

Quote:

I think that many atheist and agnostics have tried just as hard as theists, to believe there is a God but something happened and they were not able to logically believe in a God, because logic got in the way.

I disagree with this post...If they actually tried as hard, would they still not be believers??

Quote:

I am not saying that you do not use logic because everyone does but when it comes to religion theist seem to turn it off because it gets in the way of believing.

I disagree with this too...

You have told me you think I am one smart dude...But when it comes to religion I seem to turn the logic off...Could it just be that people like myself and found soul...Are actually thinking on a higher level than most? And that is why we can see and experience thing we do?? How could someone be very intelligent and logical but switch it off?? It does not make sense to believe that they do that...It makes more sense to believe, (if you believe they are intelligent) that they have inner intuitions that most do not...And that they are not turning off the logical switch...It is something that they can not fully 100% prove...So it is others who "believe" they are turning this switch off...But in reality, they could be logical in other things, and their experiences could be real...It does not have to be divided at all...

Quote:

That may not necessarily be the reason they do not use it.
The real reason is that the belief in a God is probably a survival component for us humans. it seems to help us deal with very hard times and it is part of a very old superstition component that also helps us to survive.

If this is true, Why would a God be such a bad thing at all?? Why would people who "believe" a God is real, be thinking illogically??

Quote:

I do have a question though, Do you think that there is any criteria that both an atheist and a theist can agree on that would demonstrate that a person is believing something that is not true?

Not by the way you question it...If you were to say, is there a way we can all agree on something?? then, Yes! Your conscience...

Quote:

Example someone who thinks that they are Jesus and will try and prove to us that they are.

Is there any type of system that both theist and atheist can use to demonstrate that it is only in that persons head?

Not by what you are asking, Because it is not only in their head...And everything you see and feel and others atheists is not only in their head as well....Are there things that both would agree are not real? Yes...And how do they come to those realizations?? Simple, the same reason why your flying Spaghetti Monster analogy does not work...Because to try to limit this voice inside your head that you believe is only inside your head...But yet you still believe is helping humanity get through tough things....Are the ones who make a mockery of this voice...And are the ones who most times can not deal with tough things...And are quick to label others who disagree, as delusional...When it is easy to see, that if we all have this inner voice....If one side was to reject it, they are the ones acting like the fools...And are trying to work against the grain...

You can not pick up the vibe that many atheists on here to be more concerned with saying how pissed they are at God....Rather than TRULY believing he is not real??

This is shown by Found Souls post of...people ultimately see things different, but agree on one common thing....

Quote:

I would Hope so but I would say that we probably would not be able to show the person who thinks that he is Jesus because that person will not be able to use logical reasoning in that part of their life but they will be able to use it in many other parts of their life.

You say this as though you believe that an atheist could not be the one who is ultimately faulted in trying to say that people who believe in a God, are not using logic...

If the person was that delusional....And thought they were Christ, and something wasn't happening....Why would/Or what would stop them from being delusional about everything else?? I am not saying I believe all people who say they are Christ are...But if something important was not happening with these experiences...Rather than "professionals" saying they are insane....Why or in what way would they be grounded at all?? Concerning anything else?? Why would they be using logic in other areas...But not be in that one specific area??

Quote:

Many people in other cultures believe in all sorts of crazy things but to them it is normal.

Just because we do not do it...Does not mean it is "crazy"

4 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Could it just be that people like myself and found soul...Are actually thinking on a higher level than most? And that is why we can see and experience thing we do??

Do you also see Harvey the invisible 6' 3.5 '' tall rabbit?

Now I can only wonder how many of the readers of this thread are old enough to get this question?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8dT53c2_Ko0NZt7HMoa3FjlZLRETrm1Fq8Xe0zlTXHFxmfR31

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I think that many atheist and agnostics have tried just as hard as theists, to believe there is a God but something happened and they were not able to logically believe in a God, because logic got in the way.

Like kids at school laughing at the thought, or stated "ahha, you go to Church Nerd" ... Or, a death... If there is a God why the heck didn't he save her/ him? Or long suffering... I don't know if it is logic, or a logically reason or whether it "became" non belief due to individual circumstances, or fear of looking "stupid".. If we look at the very religious, not a Sunday is missed, Easter, Christmas, Mass and whom they associate with, how they believe in a girl being a virgin... All sorts of worshiping and sacrificing.. Most of us have a cheeky side, or some call a slightly evil side, rebelious.. It is better to live a life how you want, than to follow all this "Bible" rules... I think that is why people reject it.

Quote:

I do have a question though, Do you think that there is any criteria that both an atheist and a theist can agree on that would demonstrate that a person is believing something that is not true? Example someone who thinks that they are Jesus and will try and prove to us that they are.
Is there any type of system that both theist and atheist can use to demonstrate that it is only in that persons head? I would Hope so but I would say that we probably would not be able to show the person who thinks that he is Jesus because that person will not be able to use logical reasoning in that part of their life but they will be able to use it in many other parts of their life.

IDK RL... If Jesus was to turn up today, I bet my life on it, that this time, his proof would be so overwhelming that people would know... I somehow don't think that will happen, not in my lifetime in any event. People, do claim to have seen him, felt him, talked to him and things have changed dramatically in their life as a result.. And, a sense of calm and peace overwhelms them... To be honest if someone approached me and said they were Jesus, I'd try very hard not to smile or be rude but I certainly would think it's in their head. To me, as you know, I am convinced of things that I have seen can't be explained (some things such as how our mind works, can for sure be explained) But, my mind doesn't see ghosts, especially whilst I am not thinking, rather talking to someone about nothing in general...I would suspect or expect if I was ever to see Jesus, it would not be in the flesh..

I am happy to walk this Earth, with that feeling of peace, except when I stress the shirt out of myself over work Smile

I'd rather feel that, and believe what I have seen means something, as it does, to me, and I like that feeling, than to walk the Earth, angry, cheated, and say "hey, when I die, I just go in the ground ,that's it, let the worms eat me, "... I would rather feel that if my mind can and anyone's can, can visualise and create pictures, stories, prior to drifting right off to sleep than when our mind is no longer active, those types of pictures become reality.... It's a nice dream isn't it.. Much better than the Devil got ya Smile

I believe I can't explain anymore than that, and again, as you know, I love old Churches but I'm not going to start going to Church... I don't feel I need to and I don't want man to preach... not interested.

Sorry I can't offer more ... But, I've offered something Smile

SPADES 2 DAYS TO GO TILL YA BIRTHDAY Smile

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Do you think that there is any criteria that both an atheist and a theist can agree on that would demonstrate that a person is believing something that is not true? Example someone who thinks that they are Jesus and will try and prove to us that they are.
Is there any type of system that both theist and atheist can use to demonstrate that it is only in that persons head? I would Hope so but I would say that we probably would not be able to show the person who thinks that he is Jesus because that person will not be able to use logical reasoning in that part of their life but they will be able to use it in many other parts of their life.

You can not prove something, By using a negative connotation to prove a positive one...

That is why even if Creasy was right, he was wrong...You can not say an atheist life is pointless because...Or say your wrong, and God is real because of this...

You have to word it...Can we all agree to disagree on something? and the answer is yes...If a God is real, we will all see him different, because a true God would reveal himself to us all differently based on our own relationship with him....But we ultimately agree he is real...And here are the reasons why....etc...

0 Replies

@reasoning logic,

Not by what you are asking, Because it is not only in their head...And everything you see and feel and others atheists is not only in their head as well....Are there things that both would agree are not real? Yes...And how do they come to those realizations?? Simple, the same reason why your flying Spaghetti Monster analogy does not work...Because to try to limit this voice inside your head that you believe is only inside your head...But yet you still believe is helping humanity get through tough things....Are the ones who make a mockery of this voice...And are the ones who most times can not deal with tough things...And are quick to label others who disagree, as delusional...When it is easy to see, that if we all have this inner voice....If one side was to reject it, they are the ones acting like the fools...And are trying to work against the grain...

Even though I said yo u in there...I did not mean you act like a fool, or can not deal with tough problems...I meant some atheists...You seem to be open to learn... Wink

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

Do you also see Harvey the invisible 6' 3.5 '' tall rabbit?

The analogy does not work...If I did, Can you say you can "prove" it is not real?? Or I am not using logic?? Or switching it off?? (No you can't)

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

SPADES 2 DAYS TO GO TILL YA BIRTHDAY

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Happy Early Birthday!

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3662/67136106242804692.jpg

2 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

The analogy does not work

The analogy is 100 percent and a invisible 6 ft plus rabbit is just as likely as a three in one god happen to be.

So claims of "seeing" such a rabbit or such a god had about the same creditability.

2 Replies

@Ticomaya,

lol thanks!

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

The analogy is 100 percent and a invisible 6 ft plus rabbit is just as likely as a three in one god happen to be.

So claims of "seeing" such a rabbit or such a god had about the same creditability.

I am sorry to tell you this...But I agree with Izzy a lot about this....You happen to have a very simplistic worldview....And not simplistic as in a good way....But simplistic as in childish, and whenever someone confronts you about your views...You become loathsome of others...

And try to post in condescending ways, that belittle others, which tells me more about your insecurities...Than they are delusional....

I still do not understand why you come here to debate hypotheticals If your not willing to think outside your box, nor accept anything anyone else offers to the table...You seem to think your right about everything and will never shake...So I do not understand what you intend to do in a thread like this one??

Because time and time again I have said, But you repeat yourself as if I had not heard what you said, it is not that I haven't heard, It is that I do not agree with you...And you can not or will not impose your simplistic views onto me....

You say you use math probabilities, and science to get a good understanding as to truth and reality or not....

But the bottom line, is you use them and everyone else does to get rational deductions and formulate an opinion...You do and can not live solely off of a math probability...You use that info to rationalize and form an opinion....

You say all the time that the probability is close to zero for all those things...But you did not rebuttal what I said about not being able to disprove they are real, and prove it is bogus, and someone is not using logic, or turns the switch off....(because you can't) then you go on to throw out there how ridiculous God is based on it existing based on your "own opinion" with comparison to the Easter Bunny, Santa, Great Pumpkin, Tooth Fairy etc....

But what you do not realize time and time again of me saying this...Is that you have rationally formed and equated a consensus you "think" is right in your own brain....You may have used math, and science to form it...But in the end of the day, you are making a guesstimation as to why you think those things are real or not, and the same goes with God...Just because you throw out there, that in your own "opinion" God is just as likely as the tooth Fairy, Eater Bunny, Santa etc...Does not = that it is true....That is your own opinion...Nothing more or less....

You are using math and science to form an opinion...and use your conscience as to why you believe it is real or not...That's it...Nothing at all to do with living off of what a probability says.....End of discussion....

Or are you going to tell me, That you believe a God could exist "in you" as much as .00000000001%??? Because math says so??? I did not think you would!) And if you honestly do, then your not someone who believes God is non-existent....But believe it is possible....But are not sure....Which = some kind of faith.....anyway you wish to break that down with science or a math probability....

Once you realize you own brain and consciousnesses = what you believe or do not...I will discuss things with you....And until you stop being loathsome, and condescending...I have nothing really more to say about it....Or these threads in general....

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

As far as I know this is your first post in this thread! So welcome! If you would like to discuss...I would love to hear your opinion!!! I like what you have said in other threads!!!

You never answered my question I posed before, perhaps you missed it...Is your pic, a Picture of Arnold in the movie predator??

0 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

The subject is however not complex the idea of a three in one god of the Christians is no more likely to be "real" then the tens of thousands gods mankind had come up with in the past or the new gods mankind are still coming up with for that matter.

Second if he somehow did exist and is of the character that the bible had painted him as having the universe would be in the hands of an evil being indeed by human standards.

All in all I still find such silliness of such a nature that it had amazed me from age ten or so and still amaze me at age 62 that anyone would in all seriousness could be a believer.

0 Replies

@reasoning logic,

I'm not belittling you, I'm challenging your assumption thast you're reasoned and logical. Most of your posts start from the smug premise that, you're correct, you know the truth because you reason things out. Those who think differently from yourself don't dfo that and therefore must be stupid.

If you really were reasoned and logical you would have considered the aforementined video logically. It wouldn't have taken long, had America been part of the Empire, they would have supported Britain during the Napoleonic Wars. There would have been no war of 1812, America would have entered both world wars at the outset, and would have supported Britain over Suez. A logical person would have dismissed the ridiculous claims in the video straight away. You didn't, you posted it, and in a stroke proved that you'll give serious consideration any mad bollocks going.

So when your posts constantly claim that you arrive at the position you have due to your superior logic and reason, I need to shatter those beliefs, and point out how lacking in reason your thought process really is.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

So claims of "seeing" such a rabbit or such a god had about the same creditability.

As does believing that a man with a gun can feel threatened by a child with a packet of skittles, yet you believe that.

0 Replies

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know