Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@spendius,

And you're a narcissist because you admit the entertainment value of religious buildings but reject the idea that anybody else can be entertained by them in any other way than the way they entertain you.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Is the existence of gods possible...or is it impossible?

Frank that would depend on many things. example; the way someone perceives things to be, the definition being used for god, whether you are talking about in our imagination and the list goes on and on.

What I like to do is ask if the question being asked is the proper way of solving the issue, what ever the issue is at hand, in this case it has to do with gods existing.

If gods could just exist then we would know that they did not create everything because they did not create themselves. by knowing this we know that a god is not required for the existence of all things.

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@reasoning logic,

That's the reason why several people asked Frank to define god. God is in the mind of the beholder, which makes it impossible to define.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

God is in the mind of the beholder, which makes it impossible to define.

I bet Ryan and Kelly could give it a shot.

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@spendius,

Sorry I am paying for a service render nothing else.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

By your own argument you are funding the harm you make so much of. You should be in favour of demolishing all religious buildings, which not even Stalin dared to do, he only closed them, and sowing their foundations with salt. And putting all the ministers and their junior staff on road gangs on the basis that they are fit for nothing else. Like Pol Pot did.

I completely disagree with this post. Some churches and religious buildings are of historical importance and should be maintained as a sort of rememberance to our past. I wouldn't support all the dozens of churches within a 10 mile radius of my home, but, for example. I did much the same thing as Bill recently with the San Fernando Church in Texas. It a beautiful cathedral that was founded in 1731 and is a wonderful historic landmark, while I don't agree with the religious practices that are done there, I would never want to demolish a building that is significant in such a way. Not to meantion all of the other beautiful and historical churches in the USA and around the world. One of my personal favorites (as far as churches and the like) would be St. Basil's Cathedral in Moscow, Russia. It was completed in 1561 built by Postnik Yakovlev by the order of Ivan IV Vasilyevich (Ivan the Terrible) to commemorate the capture of Kazan and Astrakhan...and it is an absolutely beautiful building. I also like the Milan Cathedral, the Saint Pierre aux Nonnains basilica, and (despite my loathing towards the Islamic religion) Great Mosque of Kufa. These (and many other) structures are significantly important in our history and should be maintained in perserved like any other historic site. I may not agree with the practices that go on/went on in those structures but that doesn't remove their historical significance.

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@Chights47,

I agree whole-heartedly. I'm not religious, but enjoy visiting the many cathedrals, temples, and churches around the world. They are magnificent historical monuments as well as man's accomplishment in building large buildings with domes that seems to float in the sky. Hagia Sofia in Istanbul is a good example that dates back more than 1,500 years. The Notre Dame in Paris is a must-see as are many others including Westminster Abbey in London, and many of the Hindu temples in India.

My wife and I did a Buddhist Pilgrimage to Japan some years ago, and saw some of the oldest structures in Japan represented by temples.

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@reasoning logic,

cicerone imposter

Quote:

God is in the mind of the beholder, which makes it impossible to define.

Quote:

I bet Ryan and Kelly could give it a shot.

I'm going to take that as a compliment... Oh, by the way it's Kel and I wrote that on (one) thread only, in respect for Dutchy, letting him know that we all care, and I am a friend but you can call me Kelly if you must Smile

FS.

I think God does a pretty good job, through the "beholders" speaking his definition to anyone that wishes to listen.. Actually, the thing is, whilst each person's mind is different, the belief appears to be the same, so I think that definition is suficient. And, that works for believers and non-believers it's the same.

There you go RL Smile

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@cicerone imposter,

I adore old buildings. I adore old Churches..

The thing is though, I "think" that if I so laughed at anyone who believed in a God, I wouldn't want to walk into a Church, regardless of it's beauty, out of, IDK, my belief? They are fools? So why would I...

Just my thoughts. But, I totally agree in the beauty of them.

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Gustave Flaubert compared one of these magnificent buildings to the wing of an insect which he saw basking in the sun on it. Much to the detriment of the building.

"It's just a pile of stones", Andy Warhol said about another one in Mexico.

What pathetic, wimpy-wobbly and patronising nonsense those three posts are. It's as if there is a menu of "must see" religious buildings for the discerning tourists to choose from as they toddle from whim to whim.

From what has been said on this thread about religion these buildings are nothing less than an eyesore. What goes on in them and what they represent is their only purpose. They are steeped in human blood aren't they? Symbols of exploitation, lies, evil and degeneration. Aren't they? Keeping alive everything you hate.

And a lot of them are on prime real estate and the materials could be re-cycled to make ornamental fireplaces and garden features.

You're busted flushes. As I knew when I put the challenge up against your noses.

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@spendius,

I had better not get started on the archeology of knowledge or the everyday structures of social institutions.

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@spendius,

I don't recall saying they were an eyesore, quite the opposite. I also have never put them on my "must see" .

When I went to Melbourne, my fiance and I walked into one. It was beautiful and I wanted to go inside. I don't like what "man" may represent inside them, but I understand what it's there for.. And, it doesn't stop me from entering them. What I hate is the new building they are an eyesore... They have no old worldly charm, they are cold, they make me think of money, on like you state, a wealthy piece of land and who paid for it.

If David and I could live in an old Church, we would... He is Catholic. He gets me, and how I feel about the Bible and man, and greed and so I am lucky. Because he also gets that, that doesn't stop me, "personally" believing that there is something out there and I choose to believe that there is a God. But, you know that's me.

I am going to maintain... My distaste is all about MAN and the Greed, much like politics or those with money that attempt to out the small businesses, by creating something big, with the small business owners ideas.

And, by man I am talking human, not men specifically.

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

Your reply wasn't on the thread FS when I posted. I had not meant you.

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@spendius,

Strange strange thinking that buildings are somehow responsible for the actions of those who had them build !!!!!!

Then people who believe in fairy tales you would not expect to be logical and I had visit ruins in Mexico where it is said that the beatings hearts of young girls was cut out of them in the name of the gods.

Never feel that I was supporting the idea of cutting out the hearts of living humans by visiting such sites and finding the surviving structures interesting however.

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@spendius,

What do you expect they're just a bunch of smug self satisfied fantasists who like to blame all of mankind's woes on religion. They can't see your point, they're too busy slapping each other on the back for being so clever.

Bill's insistance on Henry VIII having seven wives speaks volumes about his understanding of History. And Chight's contempt for a whole swathe of people shows him for what he is.

Quote:

despite my loathing towards the Islamic religion

What do you think he loaths most about Islam? Do you think it is the preservation of the library at Alexandria, and all the important texts, or maybe the focus on scientific discovery that kick started the Renaissance?

In any event they've proven that fanatical fundamentalists are more of a problem than anything else, whether or not those fanatics are Christian Moslem or Atheist.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Strange strange thinking that buildings are somehow responsible for the actions of those who had them build !!!!!! /quote]

How do you explain the fundamental differences in the architecture and the art of the various cultures? The cathedral is an exercise in the mathematics of dynamic space. The calculus in stone. A light machine.

A mosque is a cave. It's interior avoids direct light. It's ornamentation is two dimensional. It lacks direction. Chinese art wanders in a flat plane. Rembrandt has depth.

Buildings are not responsible for actions, they are a symbol of a world feeling.

Quote:
Never feel that I was supporting the idea of cutting out the hearts of living humans by visiting such sites and finding the surviving structures interesting however.

That's a bit ghoulish like visiting the Tower Of London to view the torture instruments.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

That's a bit ghoulish like visiting the Tower Of London to view the torture instruments.

It's also wrong, Bill is mixing up facts with his own fantasies.

Quote:

I had visit ruins in Mexico where it is said that the beatings hearts of young girls was cut out of them in the name of the gods.

They didn't sacrifice young girls, they sacrificed warriors. The main bone of contention is whether or not those warriors were being rewarded or punished. Then again, what else can you expect from someone who lives in a fantasy world, where a belief in the hereafter is responsible for all of mankind's ills?

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

That's a bit ghoulish like visiting the Tower Of London to view the torture instruments.

It is part of human history/human nature and so is the torture instruments in the tower and so is the Germany death camps and so on.

Trying to pretend otherwise is just the same magical thinking mind sets that is needed to be a true believers in fantasy beings.

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@FOUND SOUL,

FOUND SOUL wrote:

I think God does a pretty good job, through the "beholders" speaking his definition to anyone that wishes to listen.. Actually, the thing is, whilst each person's mind is different, the belief appears to be the same, so I think that definition is suficient. And, that works for believers and non-believers it's the same.

If the belief appears to be the same then would you care to explain why there are about 36,000 different denominations of Christianity around the world instead of just being 1...as there is just the same singular god that is worshipped by all of these different denominations.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Gustave Flaubert compared one of these magnificent buildings to the wing of an insect which he saw basking in the sun on it. Much to the detriment of the building.

"It's just a pile of stones", Andy Warhol said about another one in Mexico.

What pathetic, wimpy-wobbly and patronising nonsense those three posts are. It's as if there is a menu of "must see" religious buildings for the discerning tourists to choose from as they toddle from whim to whim.

From what has been said on this thread about religion these buildings are nothing less than an eyesore. What goes on in them and what they represent is their only purpose. They are steeped in human blood aren't they? Symbols of exploitation, lies, evil and degeneration. Aren't they? Keeping alive everything you hate.

And a lot of them are on prime real estate and the materials could be re-cycled to make ornamental fireplaces and garden features.

You're busted flushes. As I knew when I put the challenge up against your noses.

Why don't we completely level Auschwitz as well then, or any other place that is steeped in human blood and are symbols of exploitation, lies, evil and degeneration? History is important for numerous reasons and if you are too ignorant to see that, than I truly pity you.

3 Replies

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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