52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:10 pm
@Cyracuz,
Quote:
The answer is a choice. With the information at hand, one can chose any answer and it will be correct as long as one can explain the reasoning to satisfaction.


So...the question is, "Is it possible for gods to exist...or is it impossible for gods to exist?"

And you are saying you can choose any answer and it will be correct as long as you can explain the reasoning to satisfaction.

Okay, Cyracuz, I would like to accept that, but obviously I would have to test it. So I will choose one of the answers possible...and I would like you to explain the reasoning to satisfaction.

Here is the answer I am choosing (it was by a coin toss):

It is impossible for gods to exist.

So...since you say this is one of the answers that will be correct as long as you can explain the reasoning to satisfaction...I'd like you to do it.

Explain it to me.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:12 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I ask you, "Is the existence of gods possible...or is it impossible for gods to exist?"



Oh dear!! Not again? How many times is that Frank? We've got it. You have no evidence blah blah blah on a continuous loop.

Your variations are like those of a speak your weight machine.


Spendius, since you have mentioned on several occasions that you do not like my posts, why do you read them? Why not just ignore them?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:15 pm
@wmwcjr,
Wmwcjr, there are decent people who are theists, atheists, agnostics, and simply not willing to label themselves. There are also scumbags who are theists, atheists, agnostics, and simply not willing to label themselves.

One's theism, atheism, agnosticism...seems not to play an important part in the kind of individual one is.

That seems to be what you are saying here.

I agree.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'll give that a try just for the fun of it, but it will have to wait. Evening plans are calling. Have a good one.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You are ready to argue anybody else's point without any from you except "I don't know." If you truly don't know, what are you arguing for?


ci, if you have a point to raise for consideration, I will gladly comment on it.

If I want to respond to comments made about my "I do not know"...I will.

Not sure why that seems to be bothering you, but it is something you have to deal with. I will continue to discuss anything I want for whatever reasons I want.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
If you define what you mean by the term 'god' or 'gods' and what you mean by the term 'exist' then I'll have a go at answering your question.


Have a go at it...do not have a go at it.

We all know the answer...and we all know who is willing to answer and who will not.

Here's my problem, for something to exist it has to: Start to exist and/or remain existent for some length of time. Give me an example of something that starts to exist and/or remains existent for some length of time?

Everything is preceded so there is no beginning; even common sense shows us that. Everything changes in every moment, science tells us that. If this is the case and existence is defined as something that starts and/or has duration then defined in that way nothing exists. But is everything therefore nonexistent? No, because it appears. Existence is a concept defined by language and made up or words. The words are all trapped within their dependence on other words and ultimately only refer to themselves never to reality itself. Ultimately existence and gods are just words made from sounds that relate to other sounds with arbitrary meanings. Are you getting my drift Frank?

God or gods need to be defined e.g. what is a god? For example if a god created everything then how was that accomplished. Logically it would have had to create by using itself or something other than itself, both, or neither. How could this be accomplished? Every question is pushed back to the creator of everything or everything being uncreated.

What always happens is if someone is brave enough to state their case clearly e.g. agnosticism; define what they mean by the terms they use then the result is that one or more readers are able to pull apart that case without too much trouble. If someone just repeats an ambiguous question over and over again then the 'wriggle room' allows for infinite... time wasting.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:29 pm
@igm,
igm, you wrote:

Quote:
Here's my problem, for something to exist it has to: Start to exist and/or remain existent for some length of time. Give me an example of something that starts to exist and/or remains existent for some length of time?

Everything is preceded so there is no beginning; even common sense shows us that. Everything changes in every moment, science tells us that. If this is the case and existence is defined as something that starts and/or has duration then defined in that way nothing exists. But is everything therefore nonexistent? No, because it appears. Existence is a concept defined by language and made up or words. The words are all trapped within their dependence on other words and ultimately only refer to themselves never to reality itself. Ultimately existence and gods are just words made from sounds that relate to other sounds with arbitrary meanings. Are you getting my drift Frank?

God or gods need to be defined e.g. what is a god? For example if a god created everything then how was that accomplished. Logically it would have had to create by using itself or something other than itself, both, or neither. How could this be accomplished? Every question is pushed back to the creator of everything or everything being uncreated.

What always happens is if someone is brave enough to state their case clearly e.g. agnosticism; define what they mean by the terms they use then the result is that one or more readers are able to pull apart that case without too much trouble. If someone just repeats an ambiguous question over and over again then the 'wriggle room' allows for infinite... time wasting.


I think your "problem" is a great deal more complicated and widespread than what you mention after your first sentence.

Is it possible for gods to exist...or is the existence of gods impossible?
igm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 02:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm beginning to worry about you Frank...I really am... never mind... just repeat yourself one more time... don't bother to elaborate... ignore everything everyone replies to you...

I answered your question and your reply was... to repeat your question... and ignore my answer... Frank... Frank... Confused Confused Confused

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You ask other people to deal with your nonsense, but fail to accept what everybody says to challenge your position. Pretty good game; you make up all the rules.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:19 pm
@igm,
Quote:
Everything is preceded so there is no beginning; even common sense shows us that


Everyday commonsense only function fully in the everyday macroworld and as an example see the subject of quantum mechanics probability wave functions.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Spendius, since you have mentioned on several occasions that you do not like my posts, why do you read them? Why not just ignore them?


I'm an optimist Frank and I haven't given up hope that you might have something interesting to contribute if I can jump the needle into the next groove to the one it's stuck in.

And you criticised ci. for not being very good at insulting you which I naturally took as an invitation.

Does an agnostic do the business for a lady who is coming on strong at him and whose husband is on secondment in Hong Kong for 12 months. A Christian doesn't and an atheist does assuming the husband doesn't scare him. What does an agnostic do? Bearing in mind he has no evidence that there is a Hell for adulterers (see Dante) or that there in no Hell. And bearing in mind the conditions in Hell.

She's gorgeous by the way.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:22 pm
@igm,
Quote:
I'm beginning to worry about you Frank...I really am... never mind... just repeat yourself one more time... don't bother to elaborate... ignore everything everyone replies to you...

I answered your question and your reply was... to repeat your question... and ignore my answer... Frank... Frank...


You mustn't worry about me, igm. I am just fine.

You might try answering the question, though. I think if you do, you will feel better.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You ask other people to deal with your nonsense, but fail to accept what everybody says to challenge your position. Pretty good game; you make up all the rules.


Read through all the posts, ci...and tell me who is spouting nonsense. Read through some of the back and forth YOU go through daily.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:23 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Why would you donate money to support it


I believe in paying for a service anyone provide me even by a religion organization and in this case the service was a tour of a historical church for myself and my wife.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:25 pm
@spendius,
Spendius...

...why don't you have a go at the question.

Is it possible for gods to exist...or is it impossible for gods to exist?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:29 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Gods exist because thoughts are material objects unless immaterial objects can exist and so if people think Gods exist they do. And if there are immaterial objects then God can be one of them.

The question is barmy because it uses language for something language has no words for.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 03:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Considering the fact that more people question you over me tells me all I need to know.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 04:11 pm
@BillRM,
Why would you want to see a "Historic Church" if you are so anti Christ.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 04:35 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
An why would I not wish see a historic building?

I would not turn my nose up at visiting a temple to the god Zeus if I was visiting Greek for example and to me Zeus is just as real or unreal as a supernatural Jesus.

If the temple was being upkeep by a private firm I would also donate funds for it upkeep.

Sorry you can not hate an unreal being or that being temples no matter what your opinion might be of the harm that had been done and is being done by people who believe in this unreal creature.

Hopefully Christian churches and cathedrals will someday be view in the same light as temples to the old gods are now view.



spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2012 05:05 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
An why would I not wish see a historic building?

I would not turn my nose up at visiting a temple to the god Zeus if I was visiting Greek for example and to me Zeus is just as real or unreal as a supernatural Jesus.

If the temple was being upkeep by a private firm I would also donate funds for it upkeep.

Sorry you can not hate an unreal being or that being temples no matter what your opinion might be of the harm that had been done and is being done by people who believe in this unreal creature.

Hopefully Christian churches and cathedrals will someday be view in the same light as temples to the old gods are now view.


Have you really no idea what a complete cop out that post is Bill.

By your own argument you are funding the harm you make so much of. You should be in favour of demolishing all religious buildings, which not even Stalin dared to do, he only closed them, and sowing their foundations with salt. And putting all the ministers and their junior staff on road gangs on the basis that they are fit for nothing else. Like Pol Pot did.

You're a ditherer Bill.
 

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