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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:56 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Not all people are bitter with their parents, nor take stance as a result, they won't have kids or else they would be an idiot...


I wasn't bitter. I had a privileged upbringing in the country and ace parents. My father was extremely easy going and my mother understandably saw me as a vehicle to manifest the excellence of her genetic material more than she had managed herself. Some fathers are like that as well.

I am inclined to think these days that it is more than idiotic having children. I think it is an imposition. The risks are ridiculous. The idea that children owe their parents anything is preposterous. Spending their inheritance on self-indulgencies is downright ignorant. And that includes further children to split the inheritance with. If changing nappies, listening to the bawling and worrying about whether the mite will be an abject failure, or a complete nuisance, possibly both, is not enough to convince any sane person to pack it in then they must be idiots.

The first smile and the first faltering steps are no doubt wonderful but they are soon forgotten when the cops knock at the door or the report card shows a string of Ds and there's a pair of size 11 trainers on the coffee table and some Gothic posters on the bedroom wall.

I don't know that I am all that glad that I exist. I would need a blank sheet of paper with a line down the middle to come to a conclusion on that. If I didn't exist I might arrive in 3500AD when all the difficulties have been straightened out.

I could have done without existing in the same way I did without existing in a colony of the Roman Empire. Or a school of cave painters. No sweat.

The Bible does give us a faint taste of what existing was like in colonies of the Roman Empire. Maybe in 3500 AD there will be people who think themselves lucky not to have existed in 2012 as I do not to have existed in Judea in 300 BC. Most people then must have been frightened of waking up.

Think of all the kids born after Hitler got on the rampage. Idiotic doesn't do justice to it.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 07:05 am
@Chights47,
Quote:
So are we suppose to assume that the next elephant we see will be purple or something then? Induction doesn't have a problem so long as you don't use it in an absolutist sense. Let's say that about 90% of people are right handed. If you had to guess as to which I was, what would you geuss? Just about everyone would guess that I'm right handed because there's about a 9-1 shot that I am...it's logical to think that way. Now let's stretch those odds to 900,000 to 1. What would your guess be then? Now what about the odds of the supernatural being proven? How many times has the super natural been under the microscope (figuratively)? Too many to actually count, but numerous over the course of centuries. Now how many times has the supernatural been proven? Zero...Now I know this doesn't completely eliminate all other possibilities, but when you look at it the way I do and seeing the horrible failure rate the supernatural has, it's hard to see why people support it so fervently.

So what do you say to this??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

What do you believe about roughly 1 out of every 6 are atheists?? 1.1-1.5 Billion...Out of close to 7 Billion

Which one is more likely to be true??

And by the post about proving a God is real...It can not and never will be done...

Anyone who thinks they can since it is a baseless thing....Is a fool to even attempt to do it...

The world will go on, and atheists will grow, because the world is headed in that direction toward another ending...

There will always Be people who believe in a God! No matter how low the number is...If you believe atheism is heading in the right direction, then I am sorry to inform you, one side will never win out....

And the only way it could ever win out, Is if a God is real....

Because if he is not, no one will ever be able to explain to others that there is no God...And if there is no afterlife, there is no way of ever coming back, or totally destroying the fact people will "believe" in a God...

Just another reason why theism, has a purpose to it....And atheism can not be similarly explained....
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 07:05 am
@reasoning logic,
That was a decent video rl. Good old Christian music. You can't beat it.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 07:11 am
@reasoning logic,
I think this post said it perfectly, But I will try...

http://able2know.org/topic/176688-174#post-4955366

Frank, Logic is asking you, If your answer to the question as to whether or not a God "Could" exist is "possible"

And your answer to the question of "Could" God create anything is "Yes, you assume anything he wanted"

Do you believe that a God Could/Would create Elves, Leprechauns, Flying spaghetti monsters etc...?? Why or Why not?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 07:27 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
his logic including such things as elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth as being possible?


How dare you leave out the great pumpkin?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 07:46 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
@Chights47

Sorry wrong way for me to explain it...

Anyone who thinks they can since it is a baseless thing....Is a fool to even attempt to do it...

This is what I mean...Anyone who thinks they can prove the answer to God's existence that is not predicated on the same principals as base things are.....Is dumb to even attempt it....

Because If God is real, there is no way to ever out smart a God....Obviously....And if a God is not real....How would you "prove" it So that everyone were to drop their faith??

There will never be one side winning it out...Unless, atheism advances to become a religion, and accepts that no afterlife is the answer...Which is just illogical by our standards today...But it is still illogical...Because if there is no afterlife in this new religion, then it still does not matter in the end how faithful you are here...And the only other way is if theism is true, and one side wins out as described in the final Judgement....

If things stay the way they are, one side will never win out, and completely wipe the other side out...Because both need both to operate....If everyone accepted science, what would science be trying to prove and disprove?? If everyone accepted a God, what is the purpose of God having "faith"

And the only exception to this. Is we all rot in the ground, or we will be judged accordingly, or we all make it in the end....thats it...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 08:12 am
I forgot another thing in there too Damn it!

Sorry to all my Agnostic buddies out there!

For one side to win out on Earth...One side would have to convince every agnostic on the face of the planet in one direction over the other....Which I do not believe will ever happen...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 08:38 am
@BillRM,
It has nothing to do with elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters, Santa, God, pumpkins, nothing, bunnies and so forth.

It has to do with belief in them and how the belief affects future prospects bearing in mind a mass belief as well as an individual one.

As atheism is trying to supplant belief the onus is on atheism to prove, or even offer the hope, that it will work out okay if we all convert.

Or at least start the debate about the matter, which is not without some importance, instead of gyrating on the spot for ever and ever about non-sensical entities.

A belief in elves is not an elf. Although a belief in the tooth fairy might conjure up $10 under the pillow one fine morning. A way of getting $10 without having to feel you owe anything to anybody.



0 Replies
 
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 08:42 am
@FOUND SOUL,
FOUND SOUL wrote:
There are so many what if's Chights.. I choose to live in that world of wonder and wonderful...
There are so many what if's in this world, but if you can't find wonder and amazement in science, then you aren't looking hard enough and are incredibly ignorant (as in you are not as knowledgable as you could be) of science...no offense. Science, and all it's various branches are full of so much wonder that, oddly enough, the supernatural can't compare to it! Here are a few examples of the wonders of science and this doesn't even cover a fraction of the fraction that actually know!






This one is three parts and if you like Star Wars, then you should like this:
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 09:25 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
That's where your assumptions goes wrong! There is no "pure" agnostic or anything else; they are always extremes and moderates in any belief system similar to all the religious in any one sect. e.g., All Catholics are not equal in any way or form.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 11:01 am
@cicerone imposter,
In height or weight? Inside leg measurement?

They are all equal in respect of a belief in one God. Due to internal logic. That's the point.

What a silly ass ci. is. Fancy posting that shite from Dubrovnik.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 11:54 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Frank, Logic is asking you, If your answer to the question as to whether or not a God "Could" exist is "possible"

And your answer to the question of "Could" God create anything is "Yes, you assume anything he wanted"

Do you believe that a God Could/Would create Elves, Leprechauns, Flying spaghetti monsters etc...?? Why or Why not?


But if that is what he is asking...why is he not accepting my answer. I've said a couple of times now that of course a god could create what it wants. If it wants to create elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters, etc....OF COURSE THE GOD COULD.

Now...what is the point?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 12:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
RL seems to find it hard to comprehend that someone could believe in God without believing in spaghetti monsters. As far as he is concerned it's the same thing. He believes this is a logical position to take.

That's his point.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 01:12 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

RL seems to find it hard to comprehend that someone could believe in God without believing in spaghetti monsters.


This is your belief. You believe that I find it hard to comprehend that someone could believe in God without believing in spaghetti monsters.

From my observations it is easy to comprehend that someone could believe in God without believing in spaghetti monsters because I do not know of one theist that believes in spaghetti monsters.

Quote:
As far as he is concerned it's the same thing.


If what you believe is, that I understand them both, " God and the spaghetti monster" to be constructs of man's imagination then you are correct.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 01:53 pm
@Chights47,
Quote:
There are so many what if's in this world, but if you can't find wonder and amazement in science, then you aren't looking hard enough and are incredibly ignorant (as in you are not as knowledgable as you could be) of science...no offense. Science, and all it's various branches are full of so much wonder that, oddly enough, the supernatural can't compare to it! Here are a few examples of the wonders of science and this doesn't even cover a fraction of the fraction that actually know!


Ben Jonson wrote-

"Yet must I not give nature all : they art
My gentle Shakespeare, must enjoy a part.
For, though the poet's matter nature be,
His art doth give the fashion. And that he
Who casts to write a living line must sweat---
Such as thine are---and strike the second heat
Upon the Muse's anvil. . . "

Nature was all there before we were taught to wonder and be amazed at it. Our wonder and amazement is merely at us looking at it after the fashion. Without the Muse nature is nothing.

You are flattering yourself and hoping your words are falling upon unintelligent ears. What's the music for? Is it to make us go all funny like? Starry eyed. You're praising yourself.

We are nature's wonder.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 01:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Let me try one last time to make the point clear to you. I made a jokingly reply to one of your replies that started this discussion about your logical inconsistency.

This is my reply;
Quote:
Most of us here know the fact that you also do not "believe" there are no elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth.



You replied back;
Quote:
Really?

You folk "know" lots of things...many of which are not so.


I know that you do not believe that there are fairies and leprechauns but because you are logically inconsistent you are able to believe in the possibility of a god and not the possibility of flying spaghetti monsters and so forth.

Frank, My point is if your answer to the question as to whether or not a God "Could" exist is "possible" and your answer to the question of "Could" God create anything is "Yes, then I would think that the rest of your answers would follow your logical consistency.

If you do not know of any evidence that supports a God but yet you believe one is possible, I would have thought with logic like that, you would also believe that a God could have created elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth and you just have not seen them as of yet.
That is why I would think you would say, you also do not "believe" there are no elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth.

Only to be logically consistent and nothing else, Not that you really do believe that elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth exist. It was only a joke poking fun at your logical inconsistency.





BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 02:06 pm
@reasoning logic,
For some strange reason some people give the possibilities of a Christian god existing being greater then such beings as the Great Pumpkin even those there seems no logical reason for doing so.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 02:08 pm
@Chights47,
You always share some good information and some really good videos Thank you and keep them coming. Cool
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 02:15 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
For some strange reason some people give the possibilities of a Christian god existing being greater then such beings as the Great Pumpkin even those there seems no logical reason for doing so.


That does seem to be true. Wink
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 02:36 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:

I know that you do not believe that there are fairies and leprechauns but because you are logically inconsistent you are able to believe in the possibility of a god and not the possibility of flying spaghetti monsters and so forth.

Frank, My point is if your answer to the question as to whether or not a God "Could" exist is "possible" and your answer to the question of "Could" God create anything is "Yes, then I would think that the rest of your answers would follow your logical consistency.

If you do not know of any evidence that supports a God but yet you believe one is possible, I would have thought with logic like that, you would also believe that a God could have created elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth and you just have not seen them as of yet.
That is why I would think you would say, you also do not "believe" there are no elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth.

Only to be logically consistent and nothing else, Not that you really do believe that elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth exist. It was only a joke poking fun at your logical inconsistency.



RL…I am NOT logically inconsistent…and I really wish you would stop asserting that I am. "Poke fun" at yourself if you are determined to poke fun.

As for me: I do not know if gods exist…I do not know if gods do not exist…I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess. And I have never asserted that god exist…or that gods do not exist.

I know for a fact that I have never asserted that fairies, unicorns, or leprechauns exist. To the best of my knowledge I have never asserted that fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns DO NOT exist. If I ever have…please cite where I have and let’s discuss it in context.

Mostly, when atheists bring this nonsense up, I simply call attention to the fact that the discussion of gods existing or not existing has to do with the nature of existence…how this thing we call the universe (and everything else that may be hidden from us) came to be. The discussion of fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters, CPA’s working on a moon of Saturn…and other nonsense like that…is smoke being blown over the discussion by atheists who simply cannot abide someone saying, “I do not know.” For whatever reason, it seems to make atheists happy to suggest that people who claim not to know if gods are involved in REALITY are hypocrites…or logically inconsistent.

In any case, the “universe/multiverse/megaverse” may always have existed; may have come into being from nothing; may have come into being as the result of gods creating it…the gods having come into being from nothing; or any of a bunch of other possible scenarios.

I honestly do not know which it correct…and I am unwilling to rule out gods. Not sure why that bothers you…but I am unwilling to rule out gods nonetheless.

I understand there are people who insist gods exist…and that gods are absolutely necessary to explain existence. I disagree with them on the latter…and I question how they arrive at the former.

I understand there are people who insist there are no gods…and that the existence of gods is impossible. I question how they arrive at both the former and the latter.

If there is a god…the god could create whatever it wants to create. If it wants to create leprechauns, fairies, unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters, and such…it seems to me it can with no trouble at all.

Has it?

I DO NOT KNOW!

I cannot categorically say yes or no. Leprechauns, fairies, unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters may exist on 90% of all the planets in existence—but not exist on the other 10%. They do not seem to exist here on Earth, but if one of their qualities is that they are invisible and imperceptible to human senses, perhaps they do exist here. In any case, I CANNOT CATEGORICALLY RULE OUT THEIR EXISTENCE.

Now, RL…either point out the inconsistencies in my logic…or stop asserting that I am being logically inconsistent.
 

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