52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 04:22 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Shirt, wait, Jesus believed in slaves.. But, that's taking it to a different level don't you think?

Jesus never really said anything about slaves...One could make the argument that since he is the Father, and the Father is him, he did not mind it....Because there were slaves in the Old Testament...But to me, this was to preserve the Jewish seed, and not about whipping and beating people...You were supposed to take care of your slave and provide for them....

So much so, that God said if your wife was barren, your slave or maidservant could have sex with the male or Jewish female to bring forth children....

I do not believe that people would do that today if they had a Servant or Butler...Much less a slave of ANY kind...So I deny the fact, that the slavery then, is the slavery people think of today...

But none the less, if people are gonna go down that road and argue that Point....Then Jesus as God in the flesh came as a Servant and slave himself...Even though he was God...

So he could have destroyed that fact...And clarified the laws like he did with everything else by doing so...And being beaten and crucified to death...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 04:58 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
I'd like to pose a question not to you Ryan, but to I mean Spades : )But, to everyone else, except Set, in-case he trys to chew my azz or something Smile Na, doesn't matter, in any case.

Sorry, I seemed to have misread this or misinterpreted it...You said you were not looking for my explanation of faith...Sorry, I was not disrespecting you, I misread what you posted, and took it as you were saying not you Ryan, I mean spades, as a joke with my name...None the less, I gave my explanation of "faith"...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:07 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry but the devil is no more likely to be real then the father, holy ghost or the son it all irrational nonsense that you should be ashame of yourself for believing in as an adult.

Please do not give me advice about what to be ashamed about or not...Not if you do not mean it in a beneficial way...

Your post seems to be belittling, and demeaning, So I doubt you meant it in a beneficial way....

From what I have read about you, Even though, 1 personal source, and from their viewpoint, (but if I asked them to show me, I guarantee they could do it)

Your not one to talk to another about something being shameful or not...

Unless your not demeaning, or belittling them...And I would take that as plausible, or encouragement...Since you did not do so...I reject what you said....
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:15 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Well basically the way I see it is that by your logic if a God could exist and create all that we see, then why couldn't he create things like elves, leprechaun , flying spaghetti monsters and so forth. The reason I say this is because think about it frank, "if it is possible for a God to create us, all the other animals and all that we see why couldn't he create something like elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?


It is reasonable to suppose a god could create anything it wanted.

I have never suggested otherwise.




That escapes me. Not sure of what you are trying to say there, RL.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:17 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
By the very idea of a god or gods they stand outside the universe and can change or nullify any law of nature of the universe at whim.

If you allow them to be limited by the laws of nature that is not how I would define god or gods.

You could have superiors beings that have amazing understanding and control of the universe by working within the laws of nature but they still would not be gods in my view.


Okay, Bill. I understand your view of that...and I understand how you would define them.

What is your point?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Actually, I think you are incorrect, but I want to be sure of what you are saying. Would you give an example of my attitude to religious belief that is the same as that of an atheist.


There is an example. A comprehensive one. Agnostics and atheists organise their lives without reference to belief. An agnostic can't organise life around something they have no evidence for.

It seems to me that the Founding Fathers play a similar role in some people's lives as Santa does in those of others.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:19 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Improve the pool? That's pretty hilarious. Very few, indeed, of the atheists who frequent this site stomp around ranting the way Bill does. Even Edgar, who is an explicit, or strong atheist, rarely comments. Some people, like Little Kay, only ever comment in the context of "non-hostile" threads about atheism. She started one, but it quickly became overrun by ranting, canting theists, and it seems that she has pretty well abandoned it.

What you have here is the fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances, a commonly known fallacy in statistics. You want to think that most atheists are explicit atheists, so you only pay heed to the explicit atheists, like Bill, stomping around ranting. That tends to confirm your bias. In fact, this place is full of atheists who never get involved in stupidity such as this thread. Me, i'm easily entertained, so i'm a sucker for bullshit such as this.


I agree with part of what you said here.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:24 am
@spendius,
Quote:
There is an example. A comprehensive one. Agnostics and atheists organise their lives without reference to belief. An agnostic can't organise life around something they have no evidence for.


I have read this over several times...and I cannot understand how this is an example of my attitude to religious beliefs being the same as an atheist's attitude. In fact, I have an easier time of it being an example of how we are different.


Quote:
It seems to me that the Founding Fathers play a similar role in some people's lives as Santa does in those of others.


That is very interesting.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:33 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Wrong I was reading the bible to try to understand how anyone could believe this nonsense in it or worship such an evil god portray in the Bible.


How do you define evil without reference to Christian theology?

Your position has to be coherent in all places at all times. The Christian position only needs to be coherent in a Christian world.

You are asking questions of human nature from a Christian perspective. Butchering the whole population of a town was not considered evil by those the booty was brought home to. Towns devastated by earthquakes were looted and now we fly in supplies and other resources at great expense.

At what point would human nature switch like that had Christianity never existed. When would human nature have given up human sacrifice had Christianity never existed.

You're Christian through and through Bill. You harp on it continuously. You know what evil is and you wouldn't do had Christianity not taught you what it was.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:45 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
If God is the Devil? And the Devil apposed him, who is the Devil to you if real??


He is not real any more then the other supernatural characters in the bible however and it very hard to get around that fact.

Playing your game however even those the god of the bible is the enemy of mankind due to his actions that does not say anything about this unreal head angel/Devil who is in a state of rebel against the Christian god relationship to mankind.

Churchill during WW2 may had been willing to say nice things about the devil if Hitler had invaded hell in Parliament but I am not.

Sorry I am not the worshiper of any unreal being be that being a god or a devil or an allies of such unreal beings no matter how you would wish to place the label of devil worshiper on me.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:54 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

That escapes me. Not sure of what you are trying to say there, RL.


Quote:
During a discussion of possible explanations for existence, if the question is asked, "Could gods exist?"...I would respond, "Yes."


Quote:

It is reasonable to suppose a god could create anything it wanted.


Does anything include elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?

If you believe there is a possibility for a god to exist are you going to take away his possibility to create things like elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?


BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 05:57 am
@spendius,
Quote:
How do you define evil without reference to Christian theology?


So for most of mankind history evil could not be define until the bible came along is that your position!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry morals and the concept of evil come once more from us being pack animals and killing most of the pack is an evil act on it face as well as doing any actions that decrease the pack members ability to function together.

Second the morals contain in the bible is hardly the morals of most humans today such as it is a moral act to offer up your two daughters to be rape by a mob in order to protect guests under your roof.

It is moral to keep slaves or kill women and children taken prisons by your army by the bible writings.

To sum up we do not get our morals or concept of evil from the bible.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:01 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I take it you did not have any kids?

Did you ever even marry?


That you ask such questions is indicative that you think my own experiences should influence my appraisal of things. Which suggests yours do and you think it normal that they should. It suggests your position on these matters is a form of special pleading or a justification for your life.

A bit unscientific rl. You need to tighten up your scientific methodology old boy. Considerably.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:03 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Does anything include elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?

If you believe there is a possibility for a god to exist are you going to take away his possibility to create things like elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?


At no point have I done that, RL.

So I am not sure of your point.

Stop being circumspect...and say what you are trying to say. I really do want to understand you.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:07 am
@spendius,
Quote:

That you ask such questions is indicative that you think my own experiences should influence my appraisal of things.


That is make believe on your part I was just trying to joke around with you.

I was going to follow that up with "You are the only 60+ year old that I know of who is going to die a virgin.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:09 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
At no point have I done that, RL.


At no point have you done what? "take away God's possibility to create things like elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:17 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
At no point have you done what? "take away God's possibility to create things like elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth?


RL, this is getting tiring. Either get to a point...or drop it.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:22 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think that you see the point but do not want to accept it.
I have a question for other readers. Has anyone else been flowing this between me and frank about his logic including such things as elves, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monsters and so forth as being possible?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:34 am
@reasoning logic,
I understand it...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 06:39 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I understand it...


Would you kindly explain it to frank so that he can understand as well?
 

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