Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

He does not seem to be able to grasp that concept...and even feels the need to explain what theists should believe in!

If so, why the back peddle here??

hmmm...

Care to explain why you contradicted yourself?, Or why you changed your opinion, so fast after the post of Steven Hawking??

Give me some time Logic...I will watch and post...busy right now at the moment...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/14/vatican_aliens/

By Joe Fay • Get more from this author

Posted in Space, 14th May 2008 11:16 GMT

The Catholic Church’s top astronomer has said there is no contradiction between the one true faith and believing in aliens.

The statement will surely spark speculation that the Church knows more than it’s letting on and is preparing the world for some pretty big revelations, or at least laying the groundwork for mass conversions of extra-terrestrials once we’ve tracked them down.

José Gabriel Funes, the director of the Vatican Observatory, admitted the possibility of extra-terrestrial life in an interview with the Papacy’s inhouse daily L'Osservatore Romano, titled “The Alien is my Brother”.

The paper quoted him saying: "It is possible, even if until now, we have no proof. But certainly in such a big universe this hypothesis cannot be excluded."

“This is not in contradiction with our faith, because we cannot establish limits to God's creative freedom,” Funes continued. “To say it with St Francis, if we can consider some earthly creatures as 'brothers' or 'sisters', why could we not speak of a 'brother alien'? He would also belong to the creation."

Funes even suggested that alien beings might be free of some of the earthly burdens that drag down we poor benighted humans. Not gravity, carnal pleasures or mortgages, of course, but good old original sin. “In that way, assuming that there would be other intelligent beings, we could not say that they need redemption. They could have remained in full friendship with the Creator."

But if aliens were sinners – and let’s face it, supposed visitors to this planet have pulled some pretty heinous stunts on earthly beings, from humans to cattle – Funes said they “in some way, would have the chance to enjoy God's mercy, just as it has happened with us human beings".

Thought-provoking stuff. Just as interesting will be the reaction of the Vatican proper to Funes’ comments. Popes have had a turbulent relationship with astronomers in the past. While John Paul II had a pretty indulgent attitude towards the Vatican observatory and science in general, the current incumbent on the throne of St Peter is thought to have a more reactionary attitude towards science and the like, to the extent of voicing support for intelligent design.

Whatever the current regime’s attitude towards astronomy, Funes mounted a solid defence of his discipline, telling the paper: "Astronomy has a profound human value. It is a science that opens the heart and the mind. It helps us to put our lives, our hopes, our problems in the right perspective.” ®

See what I mean Frank?? Not only does he say you can not prove a negative...Which means he is not 100% certain there is no god...Because his math can not prove a zero probability...But he seems to think he knows and understands exactly what or how people will act who embrace a theology, in this case Catholicism, Or the Christian God...When he does not even embrace it???

Based upon what he posted above...

I have learned it is not even worth discussing hypothetical's with people who have the mentality of Bill...

I can not prove that the tooth fairy does not exist however the probability approach zero as a limit and to the same degree as the idea of a Christian god does.

No sane person can justify acting as if the tooth fairy had a real existence despite not being able to prove it non-existence and far more to the point no sane person should be able to act as the silly and small Christian god is the engine behind this wonderful and vast universe we find ourselves living in.

You silly god is no more likely then Zeus or Jupiter or......................

Theology=fairy tales

We have been over this remember>?

I will quote Izzy's post because I think he explained it perfectly!

http://able2know.org/topic/176688-91#post-4861361

Those are not OUR problems to figure out for you! If you can not prove a negative, than it is you who is the closet worshiper, because you are not 100% sure, but someone almost sure, with the smallest amount of faith in you, that you reject...That is your problem if you can not get yourself to accept God can not be fully 100% dis-proven!...And more of your problem, If you can not get yourself to accept in your own mind, the tooth fairy, or great pumpkin, Santa, are not 100% fully disprovable either! So your thinking is flawed, to think that probabilities explain or do not explain such things! It is your own Subjective, objective, Perspectives, Opinions, Conscious, Sub-conscious....Not a math probability!

And you insist as though you know what the Christian faith is all about when you do not even embrace it! So you seem to accept anything that suits you, and reject, and condescend anything not up to par with you!

These are all the things you think in your mind! Not what maths says about it!

It is pointless to even debate hypo's with you!

Your too opinionated to be shaken! So why are you even here to debate then???

Yes I am a worshiper of the great pumpkin as he is just a likely as your silly god you are trying to sell and the great pumpkin is not such a symbol of evil as in the claimed wiping out the whole human race due to him having a bad hair day but for one family.

How can anyone even someone condition before reaching the age of reason buy into such nonsense!!!!!!

You do not even have too!...All you have to do, is use that info...then you formulate your OWN opinions based on it! All you have to do is think about what you believe...Not focus on what math can/can not prove/disprove!

That is the dilemma your in, because you "believe" what math probabilities say = worshiping, or worshiping...When in actuality, It is your own personal opinions! Inside your brain!

And when I said this!

That is your problem if you can not get yourself to accept God can not be fully 100% dis-proven!...And more of your problem, If you can not get yourself to accept in your own mind, the tooth fairy, or great pumpkin, Santa, are not 100% fully disprovable either!

I meant your logic of using math destroys itself...Because the math says they both are not real...But you can not disprove a God, and by math your math, it is easy to think the great pumpkin is bogus...Which shows it is all about what you believe in your brain, personally! Not what math says is the probable outcome! And this is again proven! Because you say the probabilities of aliens are near one! but not almost every believes they are real! Not even atheists who "use" math, and science to the hardcore! So it is all what you BELIEVE it to be in your own mind! (perspectives, objectives, subjectivity, opinions, conscious, sub-conscious)

I think you should stop calling anyone who disagrees with you a sociopath, and instead examine why you feel the need to make people watch videos.

YEAH!

I try not to respond to ItP anymore, mainly because of his/her past name calling tirades against those that disagree with him/her. Seeing this gibberish from ItP was worth a chuckle.

Have you not seen the evil eyes (in glow) in America, of the pumpkin or heard of the "Pumpkin Eater? " ...

Dear Bill, long time since I said this, but stop talking such gibberish...

You come onto a thread and apparently talk about bad hair days in a selling tool? WTF? Go and sleep, get off the wine... Night, night, don't let the bed bugs bite... Dear ..................something.

Mind you... You according to firefly, sit at a park bench, observing children with a dog, enticing... Ok, ok... Spades would say................ but we've said it already.

Give us an explanation Bill. Why is somebody who knows as much as you asking us a question like that when billions of people have, do and will buy into the nonsense? There has to be a reason.

Sorry but the ability to control an adult mind and shut off reason and logic for the rest of his or her life in the area of religion if you had access to being able to condition that mind in childhood is a subject that I am not an expert on.

I had sadly just seen the results of such conditioning all around me where people can and do laugh at the old religions such as the Roman, Greek and Egyptian Gods but then end up defending believes that are no more logical or rational concerning the gods that society is still conditioning it children to believe in.

It is also interesting that some of us seems to be either immune or at least resistance to such conditioning and do not have our logic and our reasoning shut off in the area of religion.

After the age of ten where my reason had reached the level where I could see the great big logical holes in what I was being taught I been amazing at this silliness that normally seeming adults claim to had faith in.

Bill,

I notice you still haven't answered my question. It is not a difficult question...and since you think highly of your reasoning power (I agree that you seem intelligent), why not give it a shot.

Anyway, you wrote:



So here is another question: Are you saying there are no gods...or that the existence of gods is impossible?

Come to think about it the human race had likely been breeding out the ability to resistance childhood religions conditioning for most of our history as being a non-believer in the tribal gods would had resulted in a short and non breeding life span for the most part.

I am saying that by what we know of the universe at this point in time the likelihood of beings you can suspense the laws of nature and are all powerful and all knowing is near to zero.