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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 01:02 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
No, Probably not, But think about it...Without a God, and 50% bad, and 50% good...What do you believe would happen in a realm such as that one??


I do not do "believing", but I can make a guess. But there is a good possibility there are no gods in this “realm”…and whatever is happening is happening...so a guess is not really needed.

Why are you so sure in a “realm” without a god evil would triumph?

Quote:
…and the good people, being good, would sit back and let it happen, otherwise they would be one of the wicked...


Are you actually suggesting that all the people who have stood up for justice, mercy and fairness have been evil people…and the non-evil people have just sat there and allowed whatever happens to happen?

That makes no sense, SpadeMaster.

Right?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 01:10 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I think, if your ever interested, we could talk thru pm about how poor we really are...If nothing else to get a laugh, or brighten up the day!


I will do that right here.

I am dirt poor, SpadeMaster.

I do not own a house (I live with Nancy and have for 30 years now); I do not own a car (I drive my aunt's 1989 Ford); I own some clothes, but have actually bought clothing at garage sales; I have no money in the bank, no savings, stocks, IRA's, insurance policies, annuities of any kind. I own a 20 year old set of golf clubs...and damn near nothing else. My net worth at any given moment is a matter of a few hundred dollars at most. I live Social Security check to Social Security check...with small amounts coming in from working at almost minimum wages as a golf course starter two days a week. (I get free gold as part of the package.)

And I am one of the happiest, most content individuals I know. I feel I am one of the luckiest people on the planet. I love life...and have a ball every day.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:10 pm
@izzythepush,
lol, no...nasty as in slang for pretty good!
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:15 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
That's a relief, I was wondering how you'd take the put with a golf club stuck up your jacksy. If you could pull it off, it would guarantee you a place on reality tv.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
So if someone where to "reject" you god...your god would have that person stuck in Hell forever...being tormented???

No, I am saying, I do not think anyone after seeing God, Heaven, and or being purged, will ever choose that eternity over Heaven forever...I believe God came to save, and save he will, I do not believe God is going to send anyone into Hell forever...I believe he will accept anyone who accepts him, And in the end when all is revealed, NOT ONE, will be dumb enough to say I do not want to be with him...Even if they need to be purged to be clean...

His righteousness is so profound, none will deny his existence, nor wish to say I do not want to be with you, and your kingdom forever...

Quote:
And you are saying that good and evil cannot co-exist?

I am saying that they co-exist right now...I am saying in terms of the end of the world, and Gods revelation...I do not believe there will ultimately be a Hell where souls are tormented forever...

Though if it does, like scripture says...The only way it could be done, is like the Bible states...In terms of forever...Truly wicked people would have to be in their own place, away from Holy, or there would be corruption...And for a Heaven to be valid, it must be as the Bible describes...Even though it sucks to think that People will be in Hell forever...Because for the truly righteous to be totally pure, and Christ like...They would have to be away, or their eyes hidden from the abominations of Hell, otherwise, the Idea of Heaven is not valid...

That is why I said of Buddhism, If there is a Heaven like place, but there is still pain, and death...It is not a Heavenly state at all...It can not be! Why would you want to live a 37 million year cycle?, When you are ultimately gonna die from it, and feel pain, and death? It means it was all for nothing, because the LAST concept you will ever have, is of pain....
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Why are you so sure in a “realm” without a god evil would triumph?

How could you "think" a realm with exactly 50% evil, and 50% Good, would survive, just as that without a God, or without any wars?? What would make the 50% evil, evil people? and what would make the 50% good, good people? If there is NO WAY of distinguishing what in fact makes them good or bad people??

Think about WWII...Almost half the world was on the side of Hitler, and half was not...there were 3 possible outcomes...One, Hitler won, and the world, would be German, when broken down, it does not hold a lot of water at all...For even his own men and women in Germany some were not 100% pure German...So, The world would be killing everyone and everything for indifference's, and unjust things...2, Hitler lost, like he did, because the good overtook the bad..."proving" that there is a need for dominance one way or another for things to advance...3, the world got obliterated in the battle....

Quote:
Are you actually suggesting that all the people who have stood up for justice, mercy and fairness have been evil people…and the non-evil people have just sat there and allowed whatever happens to happen?

No, that is not what I am saying...What I am saying is if you ever have a planet, or earth, or realm, Heaven, after life that is 50% good, and 50% bad...

the only way the bad would be considered bad, is from bad actions, and the only way good would be good is from good actions...to pro port that a realm exists with exactly 50/50 with no God to control it...

It leads me to believe the realm, or kingdom would be chaos...Because the 50% wicked are wicked for reasons, they are unstable...or they would not be wicked, and the 50% good, are good, and stable because they have done good actions, and would not be good unless they had done good things...

If a realms exist with 50/50 without a God to watch them...then it stands to believe the wicked would act wicked here, since a God would/can not stop them...and the Good would act good...SO the wicked would take advantage of the good ones, and dominate them...because they are wicked...the good ones, would REMAIN good, and by remaining, I mean, when the wicked act wicked, they would just brush it off, and not fight back...If they did, they face being considered a wicked one, and since they understand that desires are the root cause of suffering, it stands to believe they would REFRAIN themselves from fighting back...because they are good people in this realm...

And if there was just all out war, between the 2, without a God, there would be NO DIFFERENCE at all of who is exactly good, and who is exactly bad...

Do you see my points now?

The wicked are deemed wicked for reasons, and good are good for reasons...

I do not see how a realm without a God could co-exist at all...Not if it is 50/50...One would seize control to dominate the other group...I do not believe these 50% wicked would restrain themselves from doing wicked in this realm...The good would because they are 50% good, but if the wicked acted out, then no God to control it, it would either be a struggle for good and evil, and then there is no difference between the 2 groups, or the wicked would act wicked, and seize control, without a God to stop it, and the good being good, would refrain themselves for acted wicked themselves, and be dominated, and suffer till both groups cease from that realm, and are reborn....


XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:46 pm
@izzythepush,
lol, how have you been mate?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:50 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
No, I am saying, I do not think anyone after seeing God, Heaven, and or being purged, will ever choose that eternity over Heaven forever


Have you ever been wrong, SpadeMaster? What if you are wrong on this?

What if people ARE dumb enough to reject the god?

Would your god then punish them forever?

Quote:
...I believe God came to save, and save he will,


From whom??? The only one being offended is the god. So are you saying the god is saving people from himself?


Quote:
I do not believe God is going to send anyone into Hell forever...I believe he will accept anyone who accepts him


But what about the people who won’t accept him?

Is rejection one of the options people have? Or is that not an option?

Quote:
And in the end when all is revealed, NOT ONE, will be dumb enough to say I do not want to be with him...Even if they need to be purged to be clean...


But what if someone is dumb enough to say that? Or is that not an option?

Quote:
His righteousness is so profound, none will deny his existence, nor wish to say I do not want to be with you, and your kingdom forever...


Why not? Is that not an option? Or is that not an option?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 02:54 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I am saying that they co-exist right now...I am saying in terms of the end of the world, and Gods revelation...I do not believe there will ultimately be a Hell where souls are tormented forever...


Okay…there obviously are lots of things you “believe.” But what if you are wrong? You have been wrong about things in the past, have you not?

Quote:
Though if it does, like scripture says...The only way it could be done, is like the Bible states...In terms of forever...Truly wicked people would have to be in their own place, away from Holy, or there would be corruption...


Well, since the worst torment of Hell is alienation from your god…wouldn’t that be t0rture for all of eternity?

Quote:
And for a Heaven to be valid, it must be as the Bible describes...Even though it sucks to think that People will be in Hell forever...Because for the truly righteous to be totally pure, and Christ like...They would have to be away, or their eyes hidden from the abominations of Hell, otherwise, the Idea of Heaven is not valid...


So are you now saying there is a Hell…and people can be assigned by your god to Hell to be punished for all of eternity.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:03 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Do you see my points now?


No...not at all.



Quote:
The wicked are deemed wicked for reasons, and good are good for reasons...


But that is circular, SpadeMaster. Who determines what is good and what is evil? You want to do that determination based on what you consider good and evil...and others want to do it based on other criteria.

So why should your determination prevail?

Let me ask you this: Is following the first “commandment” of your god good or evil?

(DISCLOSURE: I consider the first commandment EVIL beyond measure…a thing that disgusts me and a thing I feel any reasonable human should consider disgusting.)

Am I evil?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Have you ever been wrong, SpadeMaster?

Yes...

Quote:
What if you are wrong on this?

Then I am willing to take my punishment, if a God is real...For spreading words of Hope, and inspiration...But I do not see why (personally) I would be purged myself, for sowing out words of hope, and therefor, reaping in Hope....

Quote:
What if people ARE dumb enough to reject the god?

Then after a purge, I think they will understand, there is only one other way, with God, I have seen Hell, I can not imagine anyone wanting that over a Heaven...Not even the Devil himself!

Quote:
Would your god then punish them forever?

It depends, He could...But I really do not see why he would want to do such a thing...If Hell exists, and people are sent there, I bet everything I have God will try to save them every way before they end up there...

Go read the story of Saint Catherine of Siena...And read about her brother named Frank....

Quote:
From whom??? The only one being offended is the god. So are you saying the god is saving people from himself?

No, If there must be a purging to happen, He will save them from entering Hell, for people to have to endure...Or possible fighting off demons for every sin you commit...and your way to Heaven....If you accept Christ, he will defend you in battle...These are only a few things, that it could be...there are more...

Jesus himself, is said to have descended into Hell for 3 days before rising...

Quote:
But what about the people who won’t accept him?

I believe there ultimately will be none...Once all is revealed...

Quote:
Is rejection one of the options people have? Or is that not an option?

It would be an option, but not one human would be dumb enough to ask God to do such a thing...

If you had to endure pain forever, and have experienced it from a purging, or be with God, and be in blissfulness, why would anyone "want" to reject a God, and accept freely going into Hell forever, to suffer forever, is a "Good option"?

Quote:
But what if someone is dumb enough to say that? Or is that not an option?

I do not believe it ultimately will be...People may need to be purged, or subjected to Hell to be forgiven...Not one, after seeing it, and experiencing it, would select that as a "free choice" of there after life, because the magnitude of there pain during their purging would instinctive convince them, that God is right, and Heaven and God, would and is the right option to do...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Okay…there obviously are lots of things you “believe.” But what if you are wrong? You have been wrong about things in the past, have you not?

Then I will take my punishment...

Quote:
Well, since the worst torment of Hell is alienation from your god…wouldn’t that be t0rture for all of eternity?

Yes, But who honestly would "need" to be tortured forever?

Quote:
So are you now saying there is a Hell…and people can be assigned by your god to Hell to be punished for all of eternity.

It all depends Frank, If I am wrong, Like you said above...Then that is the way I believe it to be, and what I am wrong about...
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:18 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Bearing up, the funeral is on Tuesday. Thanks for asking.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But that is circular, SpadeMaster. Who determines what is good and what is evil? You want to do that determination based on what you consider good and evil...and others want to do it based on other criteria.

Who would be able to "decide" how 50% people in a realm are wicked, and 50% are good? If not a God? How are they 50/50 split? What would stop them from doing whatever they wanted wherever they go? How would a spirit go there on its own, and not choose to go straight to the top in the Heaven like Kingdom, Since most of us feel we are almost always right??

Quote:
So why should your determination prevail?

It should not necessarily, But I am testing Buddhas teachings like he said to do, and it doesn't not hold water...UNLESS these 50/50 are not divided, and are all of the same, but that is not what the Sanskrit says....

Quote:
Let me ask you this: Is following the first “commandment” of your god good or evil?

Good...

Quote:
(DISCLOSURE: I consider the first commandment EVIL beyond measure…a thing that disgusts me and a thing I feel any reasonable human should consider disgusting.)

Am I evil?

No, You do not seem to be evil...Just maybe confused...Just like I could be...

Perhaps if God is real, one day you will see it and realize he is...and perhaps your mind will change about him??
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:32 pm
@izzythepush,
very nice to hear buddy! sux to have to go to those things...and sux that death happens...
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:37 pm
@izzythepush,
Warm wishes sent your way...

It's also horrible when someone here you know, has disappeared since night before last and makes you worry yourself sick, as you have no way of knowing if he is alright.

You better be alright DUTCHY~~~
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I do not own a house, I live at home, I do not own a car, never even had a license...I have no money, other than maybe a family member giving me a 20 every now and then...I have pretty much nothing besides a family who takes care of me...Sisters, Brothers, Aunts, Uncles etc....

One of my greatest things is having a PS3 (TM) to play games, and having the internet to talk to my friends...

I am also one of the happiest individuals I know, and think life is a blast as well...

I would consider my greatest gift, is the fact that God has chosen me, to be one of his Prophets....(This is my opinion) not to upset, or argue with anyone...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:38 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
If you really want to continue this discussion, SpadeMaster, I think it would be best to break the conversation down into manageable pieces. Otherwise we will start talking past each other. (I will understand if you decide this is not a discussion you would like to continue.)

Assuming you do want to continue, let’s speak only about the notion of Hell for a bit.

You suggest that there is a Hell…a place of “enduring pain.”

So…you must agree that if a person (with free will) decided to reject your god…it is within the realm of possibility that the god could condemn that person to spend all eternity in Hell…suffering that enduring pain.

Is that correct?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:53 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
hey babbe! You lookin hot tonight! (scene from Billy Madison TM) lmao...good to see you again, I was thinking and praying all morning...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 03:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Yes, correct...It definitely could be a possibility...
 

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