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West Memphis 3 Are Going To Be Freed!

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 09:07 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Evidence. The results of a lie detector test are not admissible as evidence in a proceeding in criminal court (AR Code Sec. 17-39-105).


That fine but that would had not stop a prosecutor from offering such a deal as that is not part of a court hearing or evidence in a court hearing or a proceeding just a condition for the willingness to reach a plea agreement or not by the Prosecutor.

Strange AM that you are looking so hard for reasons why three 'innocent' men would not be yelling for such testing.

I know that if I was in their shoes and innocent I would wish to clear my name as must as possible from this limbo and would be running not walking to take such a test.

So it would seems that in your heart of heart you have some fear that they did kill those children and looking for some reason for them not to take such a test.

To sum up the laws would not had block the Prosecutor from demanding such tests before reaching a plea deal and there is now no reason why three innocent men would not be willing to now sit down and be film taking those tests for part three or part four of this on going serial of documentary films.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 09:24 am
Any further comments from me in any way referring to 'his' posts would be inhumane. I won't be part of his looking like a complete idiot any longer.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 10:19 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
I know that if I was in their shoes and innocent I would wish to clear my name as must as possible from this limbo and would be running not walking to take such a test.

So, you would suggest that Strauss-Kahn take a lie detector test to clear his name from the taint of an attempted rape charge?

The maid in the DSK has credibility problems, but so did the person who gave a very inconsistent confession in the WM3 case--a confession that was recanted.

Just because the charges against DSK may be dropped, does not mean he did not sexually assault that women, even with all her credibility problems. There will always be doubt about his innocence. So, I guess you would advise him to take an immediate lie detector test and make the results public, right? I mean, according to you, an innocent man should be "yelling for such testing".
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 10:39 am
@firefly,
Hell Firefly you got to be kidding me as it would seem that every third word of the poor maid had been shown to had been a lie so it would had been far better for Vince career if he had have her taken such a test before dragging DSK off a plane!!!!!

The only one of the two who had been shown to be a liar under oath and not under oath is the so call victim.

The real risk of her taking the test would be that she might had burn out the machine and they are not cheap. Drunk
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 10:50 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Maybe because I am assuming that even prosecutors sometime care if people are innocent or guilty of a crime of killing three children.

In this case, I really don't believe they care--otherwise they would have let this case move toward three new trials, which is where it was headed, and let new juries decide the matter based on new evidence discovered in the past 18 years.

All the state was doing was trying to save face and protect themselves from liability--which is why they, in effect, coerced guilty pleas in exchange for giving these men their freedom. Those guilty pleas protect the state from being sued for wrongful imprisonment. And the state demanded that all three of them had to agree to the Alford plea, or none of them could take the deal. Baldwin really did not want to agree to it, he finally agreed only to get Damien Echols off death row and save his life. Someone's life was hanging in the balance which was the very powerful incentive to get them to accept the plea deal. These men have always maintained their innocence and have always fought for new trials to prove their innocence--and it finally looked like they were going to get those new trials.

Your crazy obsession with lie detectors is ludicrous. If the state was really interested in justice in this particular case, they should have gone forward with new trials. These three were screwed by the criminal justice system from beginning to end. The most important thing is that they now have their freedom and their lives back, after 18 years and a near execution, but it's difficult to see how this case really served the interests of justice in any way--including definitively identifying who really brutally murdered those children.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 10:53 am
@firefly,
The three happy campers could had gotten new trials so let not blame the state alone for that not happening as it take two parties to reach a deal.

Second you can not sue a state without the state permission so the state was in no danger of a big civil judgment.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:02 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

The real risk of her taking the test would be that she might had burn out the machine and they are not cheap

No, I never said the maid should take the test.

You have been saying that any innocent man should be "yelling" to take such a test in order to prove his innocence and clear his name. That means the accused has to take the test--it's his word that is at stake. You don't prove your innocence on the basis of someone else's test.Rolling Eyes

Strauss-Kahn might well have sexually assaulted that maid, regardless of her credibility problems--liars can still be the victims of sexual assault. His name has been irreparably damaged, not only by this case, but because this case caused all of his past unsavory behaviors toward women to become known. He's the one who should want to clear his name. Why wouldn't you insist he start "yelling" and demanding to take a public lie detector test to prove he did not commit a criminal sexual assault?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:15 am
You can't sue a state without the state's permission? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? State's don't have to give permission to be sued. I thought I had heard it all, firefly but that one takes the perverbial cake.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:20 am
@firefly,
Sorry dear but the fifth amendment apply before a conviction not after it and given what is coming out concerning that case only people like you still might give some slight credit to the charges against DSK.

In his shoes I would likely been all for taking such a test still I am sure if DSK said anything of the kind his very high price lawyers would had have massive heart attacks.

It is after all the state job to convict a jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt not the defended job to prove he is innocent and in the case of the these gentlemen they was found guilty by two juries.

Now it is their and their lawyers job to show that the two juries was in error.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:22 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
You can't sue a state without the state's permission? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? State's don't have to give permission to be sued. I thought I had heard it all, firefly but that one takes the perverbial cake.


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-sovereign-immunity.htm

Sovereign immunity is a legal concept which dates back to the Middle Ages. Under sovereign immunity, the sovereign cannot be held accountable in tort suits, under the argument that because the sovereign makes the law, it is impossible for the sovereign to commit civil wrongs. This concept has been integrated into the legal systems of a number of nations around the world, although it is controversial in some regions.

This concept was developed, unsurprisingly, by literal sovereigns who wanted to protect themselves from suit by the people. It was often used as a tool for suppression, by making it difficult for citizens to find redress when civil wrongs were committed by the government. In modern uses, however, it refers to a sovereign in the sense of the government. Nations governments are considered protected under sovereign immunity, but individual representatives of the government can still be held liable for civil wrongs they commit. Being the President or Prime Minister of a country, for example, does not exempt one from liability.

Originally, this protection from liability was used as a blanket shield, limiting opportunities for citizens to sue the government. Over time, the concept evolved. The government can waive immunity or consent to a specific suit, and several governments have actually passed sweeping laws which waive immunity for most suits, providing citizens with the right to sue the government in civil cases. When the government is brought to court, a representative appears on behalf of the government during the trial.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:31 am
@Arella Mae,
No reason to thank me for increasing your very limited knowledge of the legal system we all live under AM.

Oh I was not kidding you and neither was the Alabama high court or a thousand years of legal history.



http://www.uah.edu/legal/pdf_files/Alabama%20High%20Court%20Reaffirms%20Sovereign%20Immunity%20and%20Choice%20of%20Law%20Protections.pdf

Alabama High Court Reaffirms Sovereign Immunity and Choice of Law Protections.
Up until 2000, Ellis Johnson was employed as an assistant football coach at the
University of Alabama (UA). Mr. Johnson’s contract was terminated at the same time that the
contract of the head football coach, Mike Dubose, was terminated. Mr. Johnson’s employment
contract had a liquidated damages clause requiring UA to pay him the amount of his base salary
for the remainder of the contract’s term if his contract was terminated without cause. After
leaving UA, Johnson accepted a lower paying position as head football coach at The Citadel.
Johnson made a claim against UA for liquidated damages. After negotiations with UA failed,
Johnson sued the University of Alabama, its president, and its athletic director for breach of
employment contract, fraud, and other claims. Johnson v. Sorensen, 914 So.2d 830 (Ala. 2005).
UA defended by claiming that Johnson’s suit was barred by sovereign immunity and that
he was not owed any liquidated damages. The University pointed out that the employment
contract contained a provision stating the institution was not waiving its right to claim any
“exemptions, privileges and immunities as may be provided by law.” The contract was signed by
Sorensen, who was then the UA President. The trial court entered a summary judgment for all
the defendants, and Johnson appealed.
With regard to UA’s sovereign immunity defense, the Alabama Supreme Court simply
reiterated established law:
Under Article 1, § 14, Alabama Constitution of 1901, the State and its agencies
have absolute immunity from suit in any court. … This immunity extends to the
state’s institutions of higher learning. … State officers and employees, in their
official capacities and individually, are also absolutely immune from suit when
the action is, in effect, one against the state. … Those dealing with the State are
charged with knowledge of its immunity.
Johnson, 914 So.2d at 835 (emphasis added).
The defense of “state agent immunity” of state officials sued individually was similarly
addressed by the Court, which quoted from an important 2000 case, Ex parte Cranman, 792
So.2d 392 (Ala. 2000), as follows:
A State agent shall be immune from civil liability in his or her personal capacity
when the conduct made the basis of the claim against the agent is based upon the
agent’s
. . . .
2) exercising his or her judgment in the administration of a
department or agency of government, including, but not limited to,
examples such as:
a) making administrative adjudications;
b) allocating resources;
c) negotiating contracts;
d) hiring, firing, transferring, assigning, or supervising
personnel; or
. . . .
5) exercising judgment in the discharge of duties imposed by statute,
rule, or regulation in releasing prisoners, counseling or releasing
persons of unsound mind, or educating students.
Johnson, 914 So.2d at 836.
Applying these legal principles, the Court held that Johnson’s claim for liquidated
damages arising from breach of his employment contract was barred by the University’s
sovereign immunity and the UA administrators’ “state agent immunity.”
As a
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:33 am
I was just about to post an apology that I honestly did not know that what HE posted was the truth but I can see that it is. I will admit when I am wrong.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:35 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The three happy campers could had gotten new trials so let not blame the state alone for that not happening as it take two parties to reach a deal.

You really are a moron.

In this case, it took 4 parties to reach a deal, and one of them was sitting on death row and had had excution dates scheduled in the past. Why didn't the state give them the option of agreeing to the Alford plea individually--why did they force all three of them to have to agree with it? They deliberately used the leverage of having one of them on death row to get them all to agree.

The state did not want to have to go through with any new trials--they had no evidence tying these three to the crime, beyond a possibly coerced, inconsistent, recanted confession given by a man with a borderline mentally retarded I.Q. who had been interrogated without a lawyer present, and who might not have understood his legal rights.
They would have looked like complete fools trying this case 18 years later, without any real evidence, and trying to assert that this was a satanic ritualistic murder, when they had no evidence to back up the motive either. The state's motivation for offering the plea deal was to get themselves off the hook--and they made that quite clear.
Quote:
DNA testing was not available at the time of the defendants' trials. In 2007, it was found that DNA collected at the crime scene did not match that belonging to any of the three men. In November 2010, the state Supreme Court ruled that all three could present new evidence in court.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/19/west-memphis-three-free_n_931449.html#s333742&title=Craighead_County_Court


Quote:

Second you can not sue a state without the state permission so the state was in no danger of a big civil judgment.

The state does not agree with you about that...
Quote:
The prosecuting attorney, Scott Ellington, said in an interview that the state still considered the men guilty and that, new DNA findings notwithstanding, he knew of no current suspects.

“We don’t think that there is anybody else,” Mr. Ellington said, declaring the case closed.

Asked how he could free murderers if he believed they were guilty, he acknowledged that the three would likely be acquitted if a new trial were held, given the prominent lawyers now representing them, the fact that evidence has decayed or disappeared over time and the death or change of heart of several witnesses. He also expressed concern that if the men were exonerated at trial, they could sue the state, possibly for millions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/20/us/20arkansas.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


It's really amusing watching you make such an idiot of yourself. Laughing


0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:38 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I was just about to post an apology that I honestly did not know that what HE posted was the truth but I can see that it is. I will admit when I am wrong.

You weren't wrong in this case, BillRM was.

The state was worried about being sued, and I just posted the quote to back that up.

He's just completely ignorant of what has been going on with this case since its inception. Unfortunately, he shoots his mouth off anyway.

He's making a fool of himself.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:41 am
@firefly,
That is why I made the statement. I remember that DA saying that about not suing the state. I know you can't sue the military but do states really have the power to say yes or no you can or can't sue us? Seems to me they would always say no if they had that power? So color me a bit confused.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:43 am
@Arella Mae,
In this case, the state was worried about being sued. So, BillRM is wrong.

And he's the one who should be apologizing to you for making this insulting remark
Quote:
No reason to thank me for increasing your very limited knowledge of the legal system we all live under AM.


firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:53 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

Oh I was not kidding you and neither was the Alabama high court

The case we are discussing did not take place in Alabama.

Keep it up, you keep reaching new heights of stupidity and ignorance. Laughing
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:55 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
That is why I made the statement. I remember that DA saying that about not suing the state. I know you can't sue the military but do states really have the power to say yes or no you can or can't sue us? Seems to me they would always say no if they had that power? So color me a bit confused.


Why any lawyer would made such a statement is also beyond me.

In Florida AM they deal with the problem of the wrongly convicteds with having special bills passed in the state legislator and a few such person had received millions of dollars as a result.

Of course in a few cases the wrongly convicted are still waiting for a decade or more for such a bill to get pass.

Now I read that some states had passed a general law that pay a wrongly convicted person so must for every year he was behind bars.

One state who name I can not think of at the moment had a law that pay only if the wrongly convicted was never found guilty of some other felony in his past.

In any case it all up to the state judgment of what is fair.


BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:56 am
@firefly,
It does not matter what state it happen in Firefly as all states have control over if they can be sue or not by their citizens.

Oh and if they allow themselves to be sue they normally set up special conditions for such suits.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:58 am
@firefly,
Honestly, an apology from him would mean nothing. It wouldn't be sincere. Thank you for explaining all that to me about the suits.
 

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