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West Memphis 3 Are Going To Be Freed!

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 01:59 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
What is irrational is the fact you keep saying I said things I never said. Yep, you give non-believers a bad name. CLICK, CLICK AND CLICK! FADE TO BLACK.


Moving downward,,,,,,,,,

Quote:
If a parent wants science taught to their child then they should be able to make that choice. If they don't want it taught, they should be able to make that choice. also.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 02:23 pm
Let me make this perfectly clear............I do NOT believe that science should NOT be taught in schools. I have never believed that. I do believe that there are certain things that a parent should have the CHOICE of teaching their children. I am perfectly aware the school systems DICTATE a certain curriculum and have no problem with that. However, there are some things I believe should not be taught in school. Sex education being one of them. That is the responsibility of the parents IMO.

I would NEVER EVER intentionally mean for anyone to think I would not have any SCIENCE taught.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:23 pm
Justice will truly be served when the real killer/killers are found. It may seem impossible but I'm not going to give up hope.

Quote:
Prosecutor: ‘We made right call’ in WM3 case
By George Jared
Paxton News Bureau
Published: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:07 PM CDT

JONESBORO — For perhaps the first time in U.S. judicial history a death row inmate was allowed to plead guilty to three counts of first-degree murder and immediately leave the courtroom a free man.

It happened Friday morning in a Craighead County courtroom when Damien Echols, along with his cohorts, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley Jr., pleaded guilty to killing three West Memphis youths on May 5, 1993. At the same time, the men professed to the court that they were innocent, using an arcane legal device known as an Alford plea.

Echols was on death row in the Varner Unit until Thursday afternoon when he was inexplicably transported to Jonesboro. Baldwin and Misskelley, sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, were transported from their prisons, too.

Making the deal to release the men was an easy call, said Scott Ellington, prosecuting attorney for the 2nd Judicial District.

“I feel comfortable we made the right decision,” Ellington told The Jonesboro Sun on Monday. “At the end of the day we’ve got three guilty pleas in the deaths of three dead children.”

Earlier this month, Ellington said he got a call from Arkansas Attorney General Dustin McDaniel about a possible resolution to the so-called “West Memphis Three” case. Defense attorneys representing the convicted wanted to know if the seldom-used Alford plea might stop the endless litigation, and set their clients free.

For years the convicted trio fought for freedom in state courts, arguing there was no tangible evidence that linked them to the heinous deaths of 8-year-olds Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers. The boys’ nude, hog-tied bodies were found in a drainage ditch May 6,1993, one day after they disappeared.

Supporters raised millions of dollars, and high-profile celebrities lent their brands to the cause, transforming the case into the most visible in recent Arkansas judicial history.

When first approached, Ellington said he wanted to negotiate and agreed to meet with defense attorneys. During a grueling and contentious four-and-a-half-hour meeting Aug. 10, an agreement was reached.

Prosecutors agreed to not contest new trials for Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley.

At that point the prosecution would charge Echols and Baldwin with three counts of first-degree murder, while Misskelley would be charged with one count of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder.

The men were originally charged with capital murder.

The defendants would then enter Alford pleas. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1970s that a defendant can enter a plea in which he admits there is enough evidence to possibly convict him, but at the same time he doesn’t have to admit guilt.

Echols and Misskelley agreed to the deal almost immediately, but Baldwin didn’t, Ellington said. After haggling for several days, Ellington said he gave Baldwin until Aug. 17 to make up his mind.

“I told them (attorneys) I needed all three,” he said.

The men would be sentenced to time served — more than 18 years in prison.

Ellington admitted Monday he might have cut the deal with just Echols and Misskelley. But it didn’t come to that.

Around 5 p.m. Wednesday Baldwin’s attorneys called, and the deal was done.

“At no time did we consider anything, but guilt or innocence,” Ellington said of the cases’ ultimate outcome.

Judge David Laser met with attorneys to hammer out the final details.

New trials for all three men would likely have been ordered, and it would have been very difficult to secure convictions, Ellington said. Recent DNA evidence, deteriorated evidence and a chorus of changing stories by some who testified in the original trials are the primary reasons he allowed the men an avenue out.

The mother of a softball player who testified at trial that she overheard Echols tell friends he killed the boys, now says her daughter lied, Ellington said.

Another witness, Victoria Hutchinson, has also said she lied on the stand, according to a sworn statement.

Since 2007 more than a dozen hairs and other biological material collected from the crime scene have undergone DNA testing. Several DNA donors have been identified, but none of the tested material belongs to Echols, Baldwin or Misskelley, court documents state.

Without DNA, Ellington said it might be hard for a jury to convict any the men.

Money factored in, too.

Additional trials would have cost untold sums, and if the men were acquitted, they could have sued the state for wrongful convictions.

The agreed deal prevents a lawsuit against the state.

Less clear is if Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley can profit from their stories, Ellington said. Arkansas has a Son of Sam law, which stops convicts from profiting from their crimes. Money gleaned typically goes to the victims or their families, Ellington said.

A movie about the case is reportedly set to begin filming next year, and books and paid interviews with national media outlets are sure to follow.

But the statute of limitations may have already run out to file suit to prevent their profiting, Ellington said. It’s a topic the prosecutor said he needs to research further.

At no time has Ellington contemplated dropping charges altogether, but he admits if new trials had been ordered, he might have reconsidered, based on the daunting nature of this case.

“There’s nothing like it,” Ellington said. “It’s a case unto itself.”

Baldwin’s case would have been the toughest in which to secure a conviction, while Misskelley’s may have been the easiest, Ellington said.

A knife prosecutors said was potentially used to emasculate Byers was found behind Baldwin’s home, and fibers collected from the victims might have matched fibers in Baldwin and Echols’ homes.

The case against Baldwin hinged on the testimony of Michael Carson, a juvenile who was jailed briefly with Baldwin before his trial. Carson testified that Baldwin told him he was involved in the murders.

Carson has a lengthy criminal history, and defense attorneys don’t believe he would have been a credible witness in a new trial.

Misskelley gave a series of convoluted confessions before and after his original trial that could have been used against him.

“When you say you killed someone, that’s pretty damning,” Ellington said.

Keeping the deal under wraps until a scheduled hearing on Friday proved difficult, Ellington said. Victims’ family members and defense attorneys began to leak the story Thursday afternoon, and by Friday morning it was well known the men would be released.

State and national media invaded Jonesboro, adding to the circus-like atmosphere caused by the throngs of supporters who surrounded the courthouse Friday morning, hours before the hearing.

Since the deal, Ellington said he’s received many e-mails and messages, mostly negative, about the decision, but he doesn’t care.

“We were able to protect the decisions made by two juries,” Ellington said. “We feel good about that.”
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:26 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Did you watch the video on wm3.org of the hearing Friday

I haven't been able to. It says I have to upgrade my Adobe flash player to view them, but, as far as I know, I have the latest version of Adobe. I've been trying to get it straightened out.

What in particular did you want to discuss regarding those videos?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:39 pm
@firefly,
It's not that I wanted to discuss anything in particular. But it was like watching history unfold in front of you. The emotions in that courtroom were very intense. I felt so sorry for Terry Hobbs. It must be torture for him thinking the killers of his son are walking free. I can sympathize with him. Then there is Mark Byers who is outraged the WM3 were not exonerated. This has been such a complex weave of 18 years and countless, countless lives all wanting (well, not all) to find the truth.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:41 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:

“I feel comfortable we made the right decision,” Ellington told The Jonesboro Sun on Monday. “At the end of the day we’ve got three guilty pleas in the deaths of three dead children.”

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if those guilty pleas were made by men who really were guilty of killing those children, and not by men who continue to assert their innocence and who likely would not have been found guilty had they been given new trials.
Quote:
Justice will truly be served when the real killer/killers are found. It may seem impossible but I'm not going to give up hope.

I agree. But, after 18 years, the chances of turning up new evidence, which will clearly indicate the killer, do appear slim.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:52 pm
@firefly,
They really aren't guilty pleas though. They were pleas that stated they believed there was enough evidence to take it to trial and they would possibly be convicted. He's not being completely honest there.

When the judge asked each of them if they understood the pleas and all of the details the first words out of there mouths were "I am innocent but I understand this is in my best interest." Damien even stated "it was also in the state's best interest."

I would imagine if the real killer/killers were to become known it will have to be like the way it was with BTK. If he had kept his mouth shut he would have gotten away with it forever. But, the FAME got to his ego. They did a 30 year anniversary piece on him and he just had to respond to it. Thankfully, he did not respond by killing anyone else.

My modem on my computer at home went out in the storm last night. My new one should be delivered tomorrow so after 5pm CST I won't have a computer but I'll check in with ya in the morning.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 06:25 pm
@Arella Mae,
If there was a killer other then your heroes that was willing to kill three children in such a manner the likelihood that he only did one such deed is near zero.

So there would had been any numbers of similar killings during that period assuming that AM is in those films and all your readings on the case did anyone claimed that there was a numbers of unsolved killings of a similar nature or not?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 07:23 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
If there was a killer other then your heroes that was willing to kill three children in such a manner the likelihood that he only did one such deed is near zero.

That would depend on the motive for those killings, wouldn't it? If someone deliberately selected those victims, or even one of them, because the victim was known to him, this might have have been a crime that was specifically directed at one or more of those children. Deliberate crimes of that nature are not likely to be repeated. If I want to murder you, that doesn't mean I'm going to continue murdering other people, or even want to murder other people.

And the three people convicted, had no history of any violent behavior. They also had no real motive. Do you buy the motive of a satanic ritualistic killing the prosecution put forth? Was there any direct evidence to support that theory?

You still haven't answered the questions I posed to you earlier...I'm waiting for your response.

Since BillRM has such apparent faith in those original jury verdicts, I would like him to tell us what evidence that was presented at those trials that he found the most compelling in terms of pointing to guilt. What about the evidence at trial convinced him that these three men were guilty of those murders beyond a reasonable doubt?




BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 07:53 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
because the victim was known to him, this might have have been a crime that was specifically directed at one or more of those children. Deliberate crimes of that


Give me a break and give me one reason an adult would have to picked one 12 years old child out to kill for a personal reason.

Let see he was unlikely to had been sleeping with someone wife or short someone in a card game or gotten a promotion over someone else or got someone fired or.......................

It is unlikely they was in a gang either as being a club scout at 12 years olds and being a member of some teen gang running drug seem not likely.

I guess not needing to pay child support could be a motive but at 12 years old that seem unlikely.




firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 07:59 pm
@BillRM,
The victims were only 8 years old, and not 12, but you don't know anything about this case do you?
And the three teens who were convicted had no histories of violent behavior and no motive to kill these children.

I repeat again....

Since BillRM has such apparent faith in those original jury verdicts, I would like him to tell us what evidence that was presented at those trials that he found the most compelling in terms of pointing to guilt. What about the evidence at trial convinced him that these three men were guilty of those murders beyond a reasonable doubt?

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 08:31 pm
@firefly,
First Firefly the beyond a reasonable doubt standard in favor of the defendants does not apply once a jury or in this case two juries found them guilty. To overturn a verdict of a jury you need to prove the jury wrong beyond a reasonable doubt not the other way around.That burden seem not to had been met by a county mile.

Now to go on to the bragging about the crime and yes I know that afterward the witness retracted for whatever reason.

Someone got to her perhaps as there was a lot of money tied up in proving them innocent by that time. She either was lying at the time or afterward and it would be nice to know which it happens to be.

A confession that was backed up by a polygraph by one of them.

Oh, the then teenager in his confession knowing details of the crime and the crime scene.

The fiber evidences should had been look at with modern technology surely before they was allow to walk free.

As you and AM pointed out I am not an expert on this crime but then all the writers and the film makers was selling the point of view that they was innocent so the sources of your information is not with out it sources of bias to say the least.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 08:34 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The victims were only 8 years old, and not 12, but you don't know anything about this case do you?
And the three teens who were convicted had no histories of violent behavior and no motive to kill these children.


So one of the 8 years old annoyed an adult enough that he was a target for a personal killing.

You had posted some craziness on this website but that is right near the top of craziness.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 09:18 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
First Firefly the beyond a reasonable doubt standard in favor of the defendants does not apply once a jury or in this case two juries found them guilty. To overturn a verdict of a jury you need to prove the jury wrong beyond a reasonable doubt not the other way around.That burden seem not to had been met by a county mile.

The latest Arkansas Supreme Court ruling had paved the way for new trials based on the emergence of new, possibly exculpatory, evidence, as well as an issue of juror misconduct in the trial of Echols and Baldwin. You apparently can't even follow the information given in this thread--they were moving toward getting new trials, the prosecution knew that and knew they'd never be able to convict them in new trials because of the lack of evidence--that's why they offered the Alford plea.
No one needs you to apply your own half-assed legal reasoning regarding overturning a jury verdict. The Arkansas Supreme Court ruling in this case had paved the way for new trials--new trials not the overturning of a verdict--and the prosecutor in this case acknowledged that very clearly. The state didn't want those new trials, and they did fear being sued for millions by the WM3--the prosecutor in this case was not wrongly quoted on that issue. The Alford pleas protected the state from liability, and avoided those new trials, and gave the state 3 guilty pleas. It gave these men their freedom back, but whether this was a just outcome for them, given the very significant possibly they had been wrongfully convicted and imprisoned for 18 years, is certainly debatable.

Quote:

A confession that was backed up by a polygraph by one of them.

Oh, the then teenager in his confession knowing details of the crime and the crime scene.


The confession, which was possibly coerced, was very inconsistent and included details which could not possibly have been true and did not match the facts. It was also recanted.

People have spent years analyzing this case--what went on at trial and all the subsequent appeals rulings. Your breezing into this topic, totally uniformed, and raising simplistic questions and irrelevant issues serves no useful purpose, and is hardly interesting enough to warrant my continuing to respond to you.

I really suggest you do reading if you are interested in understanding the evidence in this case--and the problems with the evidence--that led to the original convictions.
You might want to look at this Web site...
http://www.members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/wm3evidence.html



BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 09:29 pm
@firefly,
Claimed misconduct in one trial somehow effect the other trial?

How odd is that?

Come on we all know it was the PR campaign and not misconduct of a jury foreperson in one trial or the fact that some DNA turn out to be from a family member of one of the kids.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 09:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The Alford pleas protected the state from liability,


If, IF this is the situation, it seems like malfeasance on the part of the people from the state that are involved in this. It is not the job of the state to seek convictions where a conviction is based on dubious evidence. Nor is it the job of the state to do things that are contrary to justice.

These three are citizens. If they are innocent and the state has set this deal up to protect themselves, to me, that is a very serious crime that ought to garner some serious jail time for the offending parties. IF!
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 02:47 am
@JTT,
Quote:
It is not the job of the state to seek convictions where a conviction is based on dubious evidence

Well, that's what a great many people felt the state did 18 years ago--convict these 3 men on very dubious and flimsy evidence.

An Alford plea is a legal tool that allows both sides to end a complicated legal case that, like this one, had been dragging on for a long time.

The WM3 were finally in sight of being granted new trials, thanks to a ruling in their case by the Arkansas State Supreme Court. The prosecutor did not want to have to give them new trials because the state lacked the evidence to convict them this time around. That was the state's primary motive in offering the Alford pleas, the state also wanted to avoid the possibility of being sued by them, and the Alford plea took care of that as well. And, the catch put on the Alford plea offer was that all three of the men had to agree to it, and the fact that Echols was on death row acted as leverage to get the other two to agree--they were saving Echols life by agreeing to the deal. And, if they all agreed to it, and entered pleas of guilty, their original convictions from trial would be vacated, and they would all be sentenced to time served and be released immediately.

A quirk of an Alford plea is that while the person enters a plea of guilty, they are allowed to maintain their assertion of innocence. However, the plea is supposed to reflect their belief that the state has enough evidence to convict them at trial--and, in this instance, everyone really knew that was not the case.

So, in some ways, the Alford plea deal in this case was a charade. Three men, who have always asserted their innocence, entered guilty pleas even though everyone agreed the state did not likely have enough evidence to convict them in another trial. But it got Echols off death row, and gave them all back their lives, It was a lot of fancy legal footwork to end this case once and for all, for all three men and the state, and both sides got something from it. The state got three convictions without new trials, they avoided liability, and the WM3 were able to walk out of prison free men and still able to assert their innocence despite their convictions for murder.

Was this a really just or satisfactory resolution for the WM3? Personally, I don't think so, but, when someone's life is at stake, as Echol's was, you take the best deal you can to save that life, and this was the best deal.

It wasn't contrary to justice, even if it wasn't real justice for three men who might have been wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years, JTT, but it also was no crime.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 07:36 am
I think it is a pretty common understanding that:
Quote:
http://karisable.com/murdch.htm

Family Members or Acquaintances commit most of the Child Murders.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 07:40 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
The Alford pleas protected the state from liability,


If, IF this is the situation, it seems like malfeasance on the part of the people from the state that are involved in this. It is not the job of the state to seek convictions where a conviction is based on dubious evidence. Nor is it the job of the state to do things that are contrary to justice.

These three are citizens. If they are innocent and the state has set this deal up to protect themselves, to me, that is a very serious crime that ought to garner some serious jail time for the offending parties. IF!


I couldn't agree more! The state was covering their butt with this and I think it's pretty obvious to anyone that really does know the facts of this case.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 07:46 am
@firefly,
Another criminal caught after 36 years! This is a bit different. He was a fugitive and not an unknown subject, as was Whitey Bulger, and how long did it take them to find him?

I'm holding out hope someday this case will truly be solved and those little boys can rest in peace. It might be a bit unrealistic but sometimes hope is just that, unrealistic.


Quote:
Mother's request leads FBI to fugitive on run for 36 years

(CNN) -- It was the deathbed request from the mother of a longtime fugitive that finally led the FBI to William Walter Asher III.

For 36 years, Asher had been on the run -- ever since he escaped from a prison camp in 1975 rather than serve time for a deadly robbery.

But last week, federal agents caught up to him. He had changed his name, worked for a trucking company and lived with a woman who had no idea about his criminal past.

"After 36 years of looking over his shoulder William Walter Asher III, now 66 years old, is finally back where he belongs -- in prison," the FBI trumpeted in a press statement released Monday.

For years, it seemed that the FBI would never nab Asher.

In 1966, he and three accomplices robbed a San Francisco bar, shooting and then beating the bartender to death, authorities said.

Asher was 20 at the time. He fled to Chicago, hiding out for a year before he was caught.

He was tried, convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

The file would have closed there. But eight years into his sentence, Asher escaped from a prison in El Dorado County, California -- aided by a female accomplice.

The FBI tracked Asher to the Northern Territories of Canada. They learned he had assumed a different name, that he worked as a long haul trucker, that he had married and raised a family.

He eventually separated from his wife, and she didn't know where he went next.

"Interestingly enough, several years ago one of Asher's daughters contacted the FBI for information on the location of her father," the FBI said.

The trail grew cold until 2005. Shortly before she died, Asher's mother asked relatives to get in touch with her son.

"She asked various family members to assist her in using the 'secret' number to call 'Billy,'" the FBI said. Agents had been tipped off about the conversation by a source.

Armed with that information, agents scoured phone records of people who they believed may have helped fulfill the mother's request.

They found two phone calls made to a home in Salida, California, to a man named Garry Donald Webb. The calls had been made two days before the mother died.

Agents looked at Webb's driver's license photo. It resembled an older, thinner Asher.

Authorities placed the home under surveillance. They also kept a watch on a trucking business where he was said to work.

On Friday, agents saw Asher leaving the home and confronted him.

"After some initial discussion Asher admitted his true identity," the FBI said.

He had been living with a woman for more than a decade. She was unaware of his fugitive status, the FBI said.

Asher was taken into custody and to a Tracy, California, facility that processes inmates newly committed to state prison.

0 Replies
 
 

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