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The Horror of Hate Crimes

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 01:33 pm
Here is some clarification on some of the hate crime statutes. This one is from Alabama.

It seems MOTIVATION is key in determining if it is to be classified as a hate crime or not.


http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/hate-crime/The following is an example of a state statute governing hate crimes:

Quote:
The Legislature finds and declares the following:

It is the right of every person, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, to be secure and protected from threats of reasonable fear, intimidation, harassment, and physical harm caused by activities of groups and individuals.

It is not the intent, by enactment of this section, to interfere with the exercise of rights protected by the Constitution of the State of Alabama or the United States.

The intentional advocacy of unlawful acts by groups or individuals against other persons or groups and bodily injury or death to persons is not constitutionally protected when violence or civil disorder is imminent, and poses a threat to public order and safety, and such conduct should be subjected to criminal sanctions.

b. The purpose of this section is to impose additional penalties where it is shown that a perpetrator committing the underlying offense was motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability.

c. A person who has been found guilty of a crime, the commission of which was shown beyond a reasonable doubt to have been motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, shall be punished as follows:

Felonies:
On conviction of a Class A felony that was found to have been motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, the sentence shall not be less than 15 years.

On conviction of a Class B felony that was found to have been motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, the sentence shall not be less than 10 years.

On conviction of a Class C felony that was found to have been motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, the sentence shall not be less than two years.

For purposes of this subdivision, a criminal defendant who has been previously convicted of any felony and receives an enhanced sentence pursuant to this section is also subject to enhanced punishment under the Alabama Habitual Felony Offender Act, Section 13A-5-9.

2. Misdemeanors:
On conviction of a misdemeanor which was found beyond a reasonable doubt to have been motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, the defendant shall be sentenced for a Class A misdemeanor, except that the defendant shall be sentenced to a minimum of three months

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 02:03 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
But middle class Liberals who don't strive for anything more are only too happy to put a cap on the wealth of the people who dare to do much more.


Why don't you stop this mouthing nonsensical memes, Finn. You do have the brains necessary to do better?

Is Warren Buffet a middle class liberal?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 02:25 pm
@Arella Mae,
Lovely now AM tell that nonsense to the to Latino kid charge with a hate crime against fellow Latinos.

Or the home owner who lost it with his neighbor lawn mowing and call him out with homosexual slurs because he was damn mad concerning the clippings not because he hated homosexuals as a group.

Or a Muslim boy who picked on a Muslim girl over her dressing in the Burqaa and was charge with a anti-Muslin hate crime.

Such laws by their very nature will be misused and are being misused.

The lawmakers who wrote the law you had posted clearly was aware of the fine line they was walking otherwise they would not had added this as a header to the law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not the intent, by enactment of this section, to interfere with the exercise of rights protected by the Constitution of the State of Alabama or the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

People should be punish for their misdeeds not what they hell they might had been thinking when they did those deeds.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 02:37 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You really are just like JGoldman10--you are flip sides of the same coin when it comes to religious bigotry.
And, for that reason, neither of you can stop baiting people on the issue of religion. And both of you wind up being nothing more than irritating and boringly repetitive on that topic.


Firefly It is indeed a shame that the first amendment is slowing your type down from expanding the hate crimes laws into hate speak laws so you could prosecute myself and JG.

You just need to wait and hope that JG or I will get into some form of conflict with in my case a Christian and in JG either an atheist and or a white man so you can wheel out the hate crime laws.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 02:47 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Lovely now AM tell that nonsense to the to Latino kid charge with a hate crime against fellow Latinos.

Or the home owner who lost it with his neighbor lawn mowing and call him out with homosexual slurs because he was damn mad concerning the clippings not because he hated homosexuals as a group.

Or a Muslim boy who picked on a Muslim girl over her dressing in the Burqaa and was charge with a anti-Muslin hate crime.

Such laws by their very nature will be misused and are being misused.

The lawmakers who wrote the law you had posted clearly was aware of the fine line they was walking otherwise they would not had added this as a header to the law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not the intent, by enactment of this section, to interfere with the exercise of rights protected by the Constitution of the State of Alabama or the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

People should be punish for their misdeeds not what they hell they might had been thinking when they did those deeds.

Like I said YOU EXPEMPLIFY the need for hate crime legislation. Great legacy, huh?

Tell us, Bill, what makes you such a fine specimen that you can criticize educated lawmakers when you haven't even mastered grammar!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 02:54 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
That is another of your absurd statements. Bias-crime laws do not punish opinions, whether these opinions are PC or not. Again, you demonstrate nothing more than your embarrassing ignorance of actual bias crime laws.



Sure they do as if you have known non-pc opinion of a group and get into a fight with a member of that groups instead of a minor matter you are looking at being charge with a hate crime and then you have the task of proving what was in your mind before you got into that conflict.

With your first amendment protected comments being used against you.

Just once remove from EU types hate speak laws and the best you can do under our constitution.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 02:59 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Are you quite sure that would be a hate crime under the laws of your state?


It does not matter if a prosecutor can get a jury to agree with this crime it is mainly a tool to add to the charges to pressure someone to take a deal.

Once more only from 8 to 6 percents of cases reach a jury as 92 to 94 percents is settle in a plea deal.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 03:02 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
People should be punish for their misdeeds not what they hell they might had been thinking when they did those deeds.

It's really a shame that you are both too lazy and too stupid to read the actual bias-crime laws. You are also too lazy and stupid to read the information about those laws that others have posted. That's why you keep repeating the same inaccurate nonsense.

You are doing nothing but making a fool of yourself with your ignorance of the actual bias-crime laws.
Quote:
if you have known non-pc opinion of a group and get into a fight with a member of that groups instead of a minor matter you are looking at being charge with a hate crime and then you have the task of proving what was in your mind before you got into that conflict.

Cite me the law--the law and the exact wording of the law--that would make that fight, as you have described it, a "hate crime" in the state of Florida where you live.




0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 03:08 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You obviously haven't been reading my posts, or they are just going over your head. A "hate crime" is not a separate charge for an entirely new type of crime--it's most usually a penalty enhancement for a criminal act when that criminal act is determined, by a jury, to be bias-related. It does not add to the list of charges--it simply might increase the penalties for some charges. Bias-related elements of crimes must be determined by a jury--they would not enter into plea bargains. So, nothing you are saying is accurate.


Jury what jury...............as once more only 92 to 94 percents of cases come before a jury.

The prosecutors just overcharge to the point that few people innocent or not are willing to face the chance of being convicted of the whole long list and plead out.

Hate crime laws and a charge under them is just another tool in a DA toolbox.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 03:17 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Like I said YOU EXPEMPLIFY the need for hate crime legislation. Great legacy, huh?


As I am 62 years old and had yet to be charge with one crime so your current hate crime laws are unlikely to get me however if you could just get the SC to allow hate speak laws!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course being a non trusting type even with a hate speak law on the books it would be hard to track me down or prove that I made any given post.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 03:26 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Tell us, Bill, what makes you such a fine specimen that you can criticize educated lawmakers when you haven't even mastered grammar!


Is not the state of Alabama that you posted the example of hate crime law also were ones of the states that passed a requirment that Obama must come up with his long form birth records before running for president during the height of the birther nonsense?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 03:37 pm
@BillRM,
OK Alabama did not pass such a stupid law and I were wrong to think so.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:07 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The only problem is if you are a black man for example you are 2.5 times more likely to be charge under the hate crime laws then a white person.
What is the problem with that? Not that I agree with hate crime laws, but as far as I know they are an attempt to supress irrational hatred against groups among the general populace, not to make the situation of blacks and other minorities overall better.

Arella Mae wrote:

Will mankind ever stop hating on others merely because they are different in some way?
No =)

We will probaly eventually grow used to people having different skin colors... but thats where the aliens come in.

Arella Mae wrote:

But seriously, why would you thank any god when you don't believe in any god? That seems an irrational and illogical thing to do, doesn't it? Thanking "something/someone" you don't even believe exists Question
I do that too, its an habit. I was a christian through my childhood and some of my teenagehood, and never lost the habit of thanking god. Albeit, being an agnoticist rather than an atheist, one could argue I can still thank god logically since I dont technically believe god doesnt exists, just that all religions are wrong and its useless to try to figure out anything about god.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:15 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Tell us, Bill, what makes you such a fine specimen that you can criticize educated lawmakers when you haven't even mastered grammar!


Is not the state of Alabama that you posted the example of hate crime law also were ones of the states that passed a requirment that Obama must come up with his long form birth records before running for president during the height of the birther nonsense?

What the heck does Obama have to do with the fact I only posted something to clarify the wording?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:17 pm
@manored,
Now, isn't that something? You so easily explain away something that is really irrational and illogical? Go figure. (re: thanking god when one doesn't believe in god.)
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:17 pm
@manored,
First such laws was sold to the public and being sold here as a way of punishing white racists and homosexual haters not as it is currently being used.

Second we already have a large percent of the total black male population in prsion or who had been in prison so any laws that increased that except for an overwhelming need is not good for the public good in my opinion.
.
More blacks males are in prison then in college is nothing to be proud of.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:18 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Like I said YOU EXPEMPLIFY the need for hate crime legislation. Great legacy, huh?


As I am 62 years old and had yet to be charge with one crime so your current hate crime laws are unlikely to get me however if you could just get the SC to allow hate speak laws!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course being a non trusting type even with a hate speak law on the books it would be hard to track me down or prove that I made any given post.


Why would you even think about it being hard to find you or prove anything if you haven't done anything wrong?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:24 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
What the heck does Obama have to do with the fact I only posted something to clarify the wording?


Your claims that the Alabama state legislator is full of bright and educated lawmakers needed looking into.

Off hand I do not remember anyone listing Alabama high is such areas.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:28 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Why would you even think about it being hard to find you or prove anything if you haven't done anything wrong?


Whe know with the current SC if they are going to keep defending the first amendment or not.

If you and firefly would get your dream of hate speak laws on the books I am sure the powers that be would be out looking for any free thinkers to lock away.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2011 05:40 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
What the heck does Obama have to do with the fact I only posted something to clarify the wording?


Your claims that the Alabama state legislator is full of bright and educated lawmakers needed looking into.

Off hand I do not remember anyone listing Alabama high is such areas.



I was not referring to any state in particular when I asked you that. I was speaking of lawmakers in general. You may not agree with the laws but one thing is for sure, you AIN'T part of making them and for that, I do thank God.
0 Replies
 
 

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