11
   

The Horror of Hate Crimes

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 12:13 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

There are many elements involved in any crime. It's not good policy for defenders of justice to be grandstanding, and grandstanding is what it was. Why take a chance, any chance on polluting the jury pool?


If anything is going to pollute the jury pool, it'll be the video of the crime. That video is going to go a long way in making people believe every rotten thing about that kid that is said.

Quote:
He has no idea of the actual level of remorse felt by Dedmon [apt surname?]. He does have a idea of the tendency of young people to say really stupid things at inappropriate times and he has taken a play right out of their book for himself.


Him saying something stupid pales in comparison to the act he commited, wouldn't you say?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 12:50 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
If anything is going to pollute the jury pool, it'll be the video of the crime. That video is going to go a long way in making people believe every rotten thing about that kid that is said.

Him saying something stupid pales in comparison to the act he commited, wouldn't you say?


Both your comments highlight what I'm trying to get across, Arella. We know that the media aren't always good citizens. They are often crass in their manipulation of the system for profit and personal glory.

That doesn't mean that the very people responsible for guiding justice should do the same things.

Have you had a chance to read John Stockwell's speech yet? Have you wondered at all why there isn't the same measure of outrage for those who commit those hate crimes.

If anything, surely you'd agree that a person in the position of power like a president ought to know, ought to have a greater grasp of right and wrong than a young adult like Dedmon.

Is it more important to hold Dedmon to account than those who have committed equally or even more atrocious crimes?
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 12:55 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Is it more important to hold Dedmon to account than those who have committed equally or even more atrocious crimes?


It was a topic I needed to talk about.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 12:57 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
If anything is going to pollute the jury pool, it'll be the video of the crime.

That's true.

But, this case didn't generate all that much interest until people all across the country viewed that video, and then there was an explosion of public outrage over what had taken place. And I think that outrage is what the D.A. has been responding to with his remarks, and his vow to try this as a hate crime. I don't see that as "grandstanding", he is trying to assure the public, an outraged public, that justice will be done for the victim of this crime.

Obviously the D.A. believes Dedmon is guilty--he's charged him with murder. So, the D.A. is not obligated to engage in a charade of pretense about this issue. And Dedmon's remarks justify the D.A.'s assertion that this was a "hate crime", so I think the D.A. has a right to make those remarks public.

Because the video is such damning evidence, the only real issues to be decided are manslaughter vs murder and whether the act was a hate crime under Mississippi law. On those issues it may well be possible to find unbiased jurors--not everyone follows the news or follows it closely enough to form an opinion.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 01:02 pm
@firefly,
In light of the video, I'd have a hard time calling a statement of any kind grandstanding right now but that's me. I didn't hear him make that statement but if he was actually laughing and laughing about killing him I'd just shake my head in disbelief, drop my jaw in shock, and say "he's just standing there laughing about it" with an "I cannot believe he's doing that tone."

I posted an article earlier where the charges were upgraded.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 01:10 pm
@Arella Mae,
Again, that raises this issue of selectivity.

Raping and torturing parents in front of their children, and the reverse, is pretty horrific, wouldn't you say? These are the very people that Reagan said were the equivalent of the Founding Fathers.

Reagan was, and is, held in high esteem by many Americans. How can this be possible? How is it possible that there is this vast conspiracy of silence, Arella, Firefly?

BillRM? Laughing
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 01:15 pm
@JTT,
Next time I think I might want to start a thread because something in particular really shook me to my soul and I needed to talk to others about it, I will be sure to ask you first if perhaps you have something more important to talk about.

Oh and my I kind of like you comment? I didn't finish it. I kind of like you but when you start making it sound like others don't care because at a particular point in time they need to discuss something that is effecting them and you think "your issue" is more importatnt, you irritate the daylights out of me.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 04:16 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Next time I think I might want to start a thread because something in particular really shook me to my soul and I needed to talk to others about it, I will be sure to ask you first if perhaps you have something more important to talk about.


Not more important at all, Arella; just a related issue that gets almost no attention when you know, fair and honest person that you are, that the horrifying nature of these crimes demand attention. Yet, everybody seems to want to tipsy toe around the issue.

You said that no one has the right to intentionally hurt another. Why does it immediately become a verboten subject just because the perpetrators of these horrendous crimes is the US government?

Quote:
Oh and my I kind of like you comment? I didn't finish it. I kind of like you but when you start making it sound like others don't care because at a particular point in time they need to discuss something that is effecting them and you think "your issue" is more importatnt, you irritate the daylights out of me.


There have been many tangents on this thread, Arella, and you never shied away from any of them. I didn't say you didn't care.

But again,

"Why does it immediately become a verboten subject just because the perpetrators of these horrendous crimes is the US government?"
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 04:57 pm
@JTT,
Why do you do this? WHY? WHY? WHY? I can't champion every wrong in this world. I chose to do this thread because this upset me terribly. It doesn't mean that I find war crimes any less wrong or any other criminal act any less wrong! This is a current event that really bothered me and I thought I could talk to people about it and it would help. Now, I feel like a fool because I even brought it up. So take the thread! Talk about what YOU want to talk about and who gives a pfft about anyone else, right?

The topic is about HATE CRIMES not WAR CRIMES! According to the statutes they are different! Forget it. Just forget it.

I am sorry I brought it up at all.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 05:11 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I can't champion every wrong in this world.


I never asked you to "champion" every wrong. But don't make out like every thread has to stay on a narrow track when almost none do. There were a good number of opinions about many related subjects.

And don't make out like you've been so badly put upon. I asked some questions
that were related to the issue.

It's the studious avoidance, you're hardly the only one, of much more voluminous horrors that has me so puzzled. At least you possess the degree of honesty needed to at least partially address the issue.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 05:23 pm
@JTT,
I do not wish to argue with you. I do not wish to discuss the war, politics, and about a thousand other subjects. You may feel your issue is related but I do not. I asked you kindly time and time again to let it go. I tried to get you to understand how very upset THIS particular crime is to me. It doesn't seem to matter. So, like I said. Just forget it.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 05:43 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I do not wish to argue with you.


We're not arguing, Arella. You are in agreement with me. You just are having a difficult time articulating it.

Quote:
I tried to get you to understand how very upset THIS particular crime is to me. It doesn't seem to matter.


That's not fair, AM. I stated, "I did watch the video and I read the reports too and I am as sickened by them as you".

Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 05:45 pm
@JTT,
I think what you mean is I am not saying it the exact way you want me to say it. Like in the other thread, FINE! YOU CAN BE RIGHT! I GIVE UP THE RIGHT TO MY OPINION!

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 05:52 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I think what you mean is I am not saying it the exact way you want me to say it.


You didn't say it at all, AM, but you expressed agreement on the overall general principle, which was your principle, ie. people should never be allowed to intentional hurt others.

As I said in the other thread, my opinion doesn't negate yours. It just so happens that in this particular case we are in agreement.

I can appreciate your reluctance to boldy go where few are willing to go.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 06:05 pm
@JTT,
Are you really trying to just tick me off or what? This is gonna be my last post to you JTT. Like I said, I kind of like you and I certainly don't want to argue with you. but right now I'm not feeling "the love" if you know what I mean.

Merely because I do not state my feelings on war crimes, politics, and a million other bloody wrongs out there doesn't mean I think they are okay.

And seriously, you can stuff your "I can appreciate your reluctance to boldly go where few are willing to go" backhanded insult.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 06:08 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
And seriously, you can stuff your "I can appreciate your reluctance to boldly go where few are willing to go" backhanded insult.


Now that's the trouble with opinions, Arella Mae. I never intended the slightest level of insult with that comment.

And no, I'm not trying to tick you off.

Let the record show that my level of "love" for you has not diminished one iota.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 06:17 pm
@JTT,
Okay, if you say you weren't trying to insult me, I will accept that. But, what you did do was ASSUME I have a reluctance to state my opinion on the war crimes/government issue. I explained to you why I didn't want to talk about it but evidently you didn't believe me because you ASSUMED something else.

So, let's just civilly agree to disagree and drop it, okay?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 06:52 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I explained to you why I didn't want to talk about it but evidently you didn't believe me because you ASSUMED something else.


Could you point that out to me, Arella? I'd like to reread that.

I'm content with dropping the discussion of it.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 06:59 pm
@JTT,
I said this particular case that prompted me to start this thread is extremely upsetting to me. I started the thread hoping I could talk to others about it and get some bearings. I wish I could state why this case is so upsetting but I can't. I think that is part of the bearings I am trying to get.

Mixing in the war crimes/government issue isn't helping me get footing on this issue. Rest assured JTT, I don't care who a person is, if they are a criminal, they need to be prosecuted.

And thank you because I don't like being at odds with you in any way at all.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 12:39 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
. I wish I could state why this case is so upsetting but I can't.

It's hard to understand why someone coldly assaults and kills someone they don't even know, Arella Mae, for no apparent reason other than racial bias.

I can't imagine randomly picking out someone, a total stranger, and killing them for any reason, let alone for no real reason at all.

I think watching a video of someone being murdered is very disturbing--you're witnessing the actual act of murder. Do you think you would be just as upset about this crime if you had just read about it without having seen the video?
 

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