11
   

The Horror of Hate Crimes

 
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 11:45 am
@BillRM,
As Firefly noted that he point here is that this particular crime of murder (hate crime is poorly named) is NOT 'just murder' if this one state has NEVER EVER prosecuted such a case in it's entire history. Your feeble attempt at turning the discussion away from recognition of the nature of such a crime does not change the facts. The man died horribly because he was black - not because he was the first person they spotted while they had violence on their pea-sized brains. His only wrong-doing was that he was walking while being black.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 12:03 pm
@Ragman,
He died because he was black and ran into some sick white racists so why is that worst then if his best friend or his wife murder him for example?

Somehow knowingly being kill by a love one would be far more emotionally painful to me then by a group of idiots killing me because of the color of my skin.

I had no problem with punishing them for the murder I do have a problem with declaring that for some strange reason a murder done due to skin color is somehow worst then a murder done by a mate or child in order to collected insurance for example.

The Menendez brothers killing their parents for example using shotguns is not a lessor misdeed then killing some random stranger due to his skin color by using a truck.





hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 12:49 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

As Firefly noted that he point here is that this particular crime of murder (hate crime is poorly named) is NOT 'just murder' if this one state has NEVER EVER prosecuted such a case in it's entire history. Your feeble attempt at turning the discussion away from recognition of the nature of such a crime does not change the facts. The man died horribly because he was black - not because he was the first person they spotted while they had violence on their pea-sized brains. His only wrong-doing was that he was walking while being black.

For a people who claim that race should not matter we sure go to the ends of the Earth to make everything about race....
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 12:59 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
He died because he was black and ran into some sick white racists so why is that worst then if his best friend or his wife murder him for example?

That statement simply demonstrates you do not understand the nature, or the far-reaching effects, of a hate crime, and how it differs from other acts of murder, and why the law treats it differently.

Most people who can't understand the topic would decline to comment. Unfortunately, you are too dim to even recognize your lack of comprehension, or your poor memory as well. The question you are asking was addressed, at length, earlier in this thread. If you didn't understand the answer before, you won't understand it now either, so there's no point repeating it.




firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 01:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
For a people who claim that race should not matter we sure go to the ends of the Earth to make everything about race....

Duh...maybe because this murder was all about race?

You apparently are not familiar with the racial comments/slurs Deryl Dedmon made both before and after he killed this black man. This was clearly a bias-motivated murder--racial bias was the only motive for this crime--and Dedmon has admitted that.

Try familiarizing yourself with the facts of a case before commenting on it--that would be a novel experience for you.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 01:39 pm
@firefly,
Why should I care? There is justified killing and unjustified, that is all we have ever had in our law for almost all of our history and all that we should have. You need to show that this killing is more unjustified because he is black in order to justify punishing his killer more harshly, and you can not. It was reasonable to add kickers for killing representatives of the collective as they were doing our bidding (cops), but that is a far as that program should have gone.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 02:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
That statement simply demonstrates you do not understand the nature, or the far-reaching effects, of a hate crime, and how it differs from other acts of murder, and why the law treats it differently
.



Sorry Firefly but we now have a black president elected by the majority of the country and we are surely not right after the civil war when the KKK was first born or in the 1920s or the 1930s when the KKK was a political power in the south able to summon tens of thousands to march openly in Washington DC with hoods on or even in the 1950s when the last shameful stand for racist laws was happening in the south.

Inspite of the tea party fools the racists are now a tiny fraction of the population that are not a meaningful danger to our laws or to public order.

By the very nature of things by the time such laws can be pass the need for those laws are behind us.

The fact that those very laws are now being apply to black men at a two to one ratio by population should tell anyone that they are doing more harm then good.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 02:28 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry Firefly but we now have a black president elected by the majority of the country...

So that means hate crimes no longer take place? Rolling Eyes What world do you live in?

And unlike you, our black President does not feel the need for these laws has passed, or that these laws "do more harm than good," he realizes the need for hate crimes legislation, and he signed one of those bills into law in 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_Byrd,_Jr._Hate_Crimes_Prevention_Act
Quote:
By the very nature of things by the time such laws can be pass the need for those laws are behind us.

This bias-motivated murder clearly demonstrates that the need for such laws is not behind us--and, in fact, such laws continue to be passed to better address such ongoing crimes of bias.
In the case we are discussing, Deryl Dedmon just pleaded guilty to violating the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009--which was signed into law by our first black President.

You're just out of touch with reality.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 02:44 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The fact that those very laws are now being apply to black men at a two to one ratio by population should tell anyone that they are doing more harm then good.


Yeah right, Bill.


Quote:

Active U.S. Hate Groups

See map at,

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

Stand Strong Against Hate

Join people across the nation who are standing strong against the hate. Add yourself to our map as a voice for tolerance.
The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 1,018 active hate groups in the United States in 2011. Only organizations and their chapters known to be active during 2011 are included.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 03:01 pm
@firefly,
Once more those laws are now being apply more against the black population then white racists by a 2 to 1 ratio of population.

Somehow I do not think that the black men and their families are overjoy in having the men spend many more years in prison then they would otherwise need to for a given misdeed under the hate crimes laws.

But you just love longer sentences be those sentences against black men or white men.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 03:05 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Once more those laws are now being apply more against the black population

Then, by all means, write to President Obama and tell him how misguided his thinking is on this issue.

You are obviously more astute than this graduate of Harvard Law School, who has also taught Constitutional Law, and who also happens to be African American. Laughing
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 03:33 pm
@firefly,
Sorry dear but facts are facts and in this case the facts are that by population the black community members are two times more likely to be charge with a hate crime then a member of the white community.

Somehow no matter what Obama stand on such laws are I do not think that the wives and children of those black men feel grateful for those laws.

But once more this is just a means to try to justify longer sentences that you love so dearly be the ones receiving those sentences white or black.

Hawkeye is correct you are into being a sadomasochism like Hawkeye but unlike Hawkeye by using the laws instead of finding willing partners.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Mar, 2012 07:51 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Somehow no matter what Obama stand on such laws are I do not think that the wives and children of those black men feel grateful for those laws.

But, in this case, the victim, James Craig Anderson, was a black man, killed by a white, in a violent act of racial bias, and Anderson's family wanted the bias laws applied and his killer brought to justice, and they spoke for themselves.

But, you should definitely write to President Obama and apprise him of your thinking before he foolishly signs another bias crime bill into law. I'm sure he'd like to know of the danger these bias crime laws pose to the black community. Rolling Eyes

And I'd love to know what the President would think of your opinion, assuming he can make sense of your fractured and tortured prose.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

2016 moving to #1 spot - Discussion by gungasnake
Black Lives Matter - Discussion by TheCobbler
Racism? - Question by The UPS Man
Is 'colored people' offensive? - Question by SMickey
Obama’s Black Skin Privilege - Discussion by coldjoint
Obama, a Joke - Discussion by coldjoint
The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
The ECHR and muslims - Discussion by Arend
Atlanta Race Riot 1906 - Discussion by kobereal24
Quote of the Day - Discussion by Tabludama
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 06/13/2021 at 08:26:13