11
   

The Horror of Hate Crimes

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 10:51 am
@manored,
Thank you! At least you admit it.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:29 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Same old rethoric under a new topic. You use the very same words when it concerns rape laws.

You are exactly right!

And with both the rape laws and the bias-crime laws both BillRM and Hawkeye try to deny, or downplay, or diminish, the crime itself, and it's impact on victims (which may include entire groups in the case of bias), and they instead focus on the people charged with and convicted of such crimes, seeing the perpetrators as the "victims" of "injustice" on the part of the government. According to these two, it's not acts of rape or the acts of bias-crimes that are harmful, it's the laws against these acts that are harmful. Rolling Eyes

Yup, it's the same old rhetoric.

And it's spewed forth for the same self-serving reasons. In the case of rape laws, Hawkeye feels his sexual lifestyle might be threatened, and, in the case of bias-crime laws, BillRM has told us that he fears that his right to spout hate speech might be eventually threatened.

And these two are so marginalized they fail to see that "the government" that passes these laws are duly and democratically elected state representatives the people have elected, and that these laws and statutes are subjected to open and public debate before they are voted on. These laws are passed and maintained because the majority of the people of the states want them passed and maintained.

But, in their infinite grandiosity, both Hawkeye and BillRM will tell you that the general public is comprised of nothing more than gullible fools, while they, of course, understand the real "truth" of what is going on with these laws. They know more than the public, more than elected representatives, and they certainly know more than the Supreme Court when it comes to interpreting the Constitution. These two drip contempt for anyone who does not share their narrow-minded views.

You titled this topic, "The Horror of Hate Crimes", but to read posts by either Hawkeye or BillRM you would have no feeling of horror about such crimes, including the one in Mississippi which provoked this thread. In fact, they don't even want such murderous acts deemed "hate crimes" or have the selection of the victim only on the basis of racial bias to factor into the sentencing, because they can't connect to the concept that bias-related crimes include civil rights violations of the victims above and beyond the specific criminal acts themselves. Bias crimes, or lynchings, like the one in Mississippi, or the killing of the Latino man on Long Island, are no different than the acts of organized groups like the KKK, except that the teens involved in these crimes aren't wearing sheets with pointy hoods.
Does the horror of these inhumane acts resonate with either Hawkeye or BillRM? Their lack of empathy with the victims is astounding. Hawkeye even further denigrates what he sees as a "victim culture". They don't want to be bothered considering what is done to the victims of these crimes, their focus, and consideration, goes only to the perpetrators because that's who they identify with. These two want to hang onto their "right" to act in a hateful and harmful manner toward any group they choose, without incurring enhanced penalties when their choice of victims is made only on the basis of bias.

To focus on the actual bias crimes themselves, and the impact of such crimes on targeted groups, requires more of a sense of humanity, and empathetic connection to others, than these two are emotionally capable of experiencing. And that's why they really can't address the topic.

I told you Hawkeye would be back. The traveling road show of these two trolls will now probably take over another thread and we can watch them do their same old song and dance. It's rather pathetic watching poor old BillRM trying to go it alone without his Master--he becomes reduced to disorganized rambling and mindless repetition without Hawkeye to guide him. Laughing
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:53 pm
@Arella Mae,
I decided to sum this up and then drop this thread.

The hate crimes laws are just another example of bad laws being written on waves of emotions and that end up granting the state more and more power.

Child porn is awful and sickening so let passed a law to keep records of every repeat every citizen on the net movements for years at great cost.

Kind of similar to let keep track and records of every piece of mail anyone received to help law enforcement find people using the mail for child porn.

Guess what those records are not at all likely to be used mainly for child porn investigations and are likely to be open to anyone with a lawyer in a civil actions. Hell for a price I would bet large amounts of money that anyone will be able to buy those records off ISPs employees.

The attempts at enacting cyber bullying laws base on sad cases of teens suicides is another means for the state to be able to censor the net at whim and the cases of such laws being used to “save” some poor teen is going to far and few compare to the others purposes that the state will used those laws for. Also a nice attempt for an end runs around the first amendment.

Oh let demand that all cell phones can be located for 911 purposes however once more that is hardly the main use of this technology and cell phone providers now had whole departments selling the information of the minute to minute location of any citizen without a warrant to any law enforcement agent.

As citizens we need to stop people like Firefly from getting bad and harmful laws passed by pointing to an awful event or two and claiming if we just give up a little bit more of our rights and our privacy everything will be better.

A man like JG have every right to have a low opinion of whites or even hate them if he care to do so and if he then happen to committed a crime against a white person he should be punish for that crime not have some jury try to do a mind reading act concerning his motivations.





Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 01:20 pm
@BillRM,
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Sorry Bill but that's all I hear in your posts. You can't keep to the topic. You focus on your views and ignore the fact anyone else has valid differing opinions. You spew the same rhetoric only changing "rape' to 'hate crimes' and who knows what will be next. Some free thinker, huh? You are like a broken record. You and hawkeye are getting very monotonous saying the same old thing and who cares if it is on topic or not as long as you get to bluster a bit more.................BORING.

I'm just not doing it anymore.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:24 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
These laws are passed and maintained because the majority of the people of the states want them passed and maintained.
The majority does not have unlimited rights, for instance the majority does not have the right to violate the constitution nor the right to maintain an unjust "justice" system.

Quote:
The Horror of Hate Crimes", but to read posts by either Hawkeye or BillRM you would have no feeling of horror about such crimes,
Crimes are not more horrible because you dont like the motive for the crime, crimes are horrible only based upon the level of trespass, the judging of which has no role for getting into guessing about the motive...the motive is irrelevant.

Quote:
or the killing of the Latino man on Long Island, are no different than the acts of organized groups like the KKK,
which begs the question why do you think that you needed to make new law to handle these cases, do you have any evidence that the old law did not deliver justice? It seems to have worked just fine to deal with the KKK.

Quote:
Does the horror of these inhumane acts resonate with either Hawkeye or BillRM?
Justice for the accused comes way before pandering to my emotional response to alleged crimes in the pecking order of what is to be accomplished in a court of law.....well, is supposed to anyway, it does not work that way currently in our "justice" system.

Quote:
To focus on the actual bias crimes themselves, and the impact of such crimes on targeted groups, requires more of a sense of humanity, and empathetic connection to others, than these two are emotionally capable of experiencing. And that's why they really can't address the topic
When the state is judging the accused and if they are found guilty is handing out punishment that could include death my first order of business is to make sure that the state treats the accused fairly. I cant do anything about what has already happened, that I had nothing to do with, and if I want to help out the victim I have every opportunity to do it by way of charity so there is no need to weaken and pollute the justice system with pity for the victim.

Quote:
It's rather pathetic watching poor old BillRM trying to go it alone without his Master--he becomes reduced to disorganized rambling and mindless repetition without Hawkeye to guide him.
Good point, It is time to get the whips out and teach him to stop disagreeing with me so often *sarcasm*
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:35 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I decided to sum this up and then drop this thread.

And, as expected, your summation has nothing to do with the topic. Laughing

You really should read the bias-crime statutes of your state, you might actually learn something. You could have already learned something if you had bothered to read the information about some of the actual statutes that has been posted in this thread.

What you have failed to grasp is that it is the discriminatory selection of a victim, or victims, that is at the essence of what constitutes a bias-related crime--the victim of the crime is chosen because of bias toward a particular group of which that victim is (or is perceived to be) a member. And the bias must be expressed explicitly. It has nothing to do with "mind reading". In a criminal act, where bias was the primary motive for the selection of the victim, bias is a very real element of the crime, but it is also an element that must be explicitly proved and not just inferred.

If a hate group, like the KKK, burns a cross on your lawn, they are doing more than just trespassing and displaying their religious symbols when they single out only members of certain racial, or religious, or ethnic groups, for these brightly illuminated lawn displays. And when a group of teens on Long Island, sans sheets and pointy hoods, goes out "beaner-hopping"--looking for only Hispanics to beat up--and they assault and kill the first Hispanic they can find, that is quite different than an assault and killing for other reasons because the intention of the crime is to deprive a member of a targeted group, a group targeted on the basis of bias, of their civil liberties. And all bias-crime statutes do is increase the penalties for criminal acts where the victim is selected on the basis of bias toward a particular group.
Quote:

As citizens we need to stop people like Firefly from getting bad and harmful laws passed by pointing to an awful event or two and claiming if we just give up a little bit more of our rights and our privacy everything will be better.

Well, I can't claim credit for getting the bias-crime statutes passed, but I can certainly understand why we need them. By enhancing penalties for crimes which are motivated mainly by bias we help to protect the civil liberties of all groups within the community to live free from intimidation, harassment, assault, property destruction, etc. which is bias motivated.

If you think these bias-crime statutes were passed, and are maintained, because of "an awful event or two" you must live with your head in the sand. These quite awful and ugly bias-related crimes continue to occur with disgusting frequency, and they have increased toward certain groups. Since 9/11, for instance, Muslims living in the U.S. have increasingly become the target of bias-related crime.
Quote:
Anti-Muslim
__________
CAIR Report 2005

The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) is an American Muslim civil rights organization. Their annual report on anti-Muslim incidents is the most thorough of its kind. According to the most recent report released in May 2005 entitled "Unequal Protection: The Status of Muslim Civil Rights in the United States," anti-Muslim hate crimes rose by more than 50 percent between 2003 to 2004; while 93 anti-Muslim hate crimes were recorded in 2003, 141 hate crimes were recorded in 2004. The study cites 1,552 cases of anti-Muslim occurrences including violence, discrimination, and harassment. Approximately 225 of these cases involved religious discrimination, such as a city's opposition to a mosque. 196 cases involved discrimination in the workplace and 190 cases cited verbal harassment. The report hypothesizes that the increase in anti-Muslim sentiment can be attributed to websites and radio programs whose content propagates feelings of hate.

State Demographics

According to the CAIR report, nearly 80% of anti-Muslim crime was committed in only 10 states. 20% of crimes were committed in California, followed by New York (10%), Arizona (9%), Virginia (7%), Texas (7%), Florida (7%), Ohio (5%), Maryland (5%), New Jersey (5%), and Illinois (3%). Incidents occurring in California in 2004 included the assault of a Portuguese man in San Diego who was mistaken for being of Middle Eastern descent. A group of white men yelled racial slurs at him and told him to "go back to Iraq." On December 30, 2004, also in California, a Muslim woman wearing a hijab was pushing her baby in a stroller when a man in a truck almost ran them over near a gas station. When the woman cried, "You almost killed my baby!," the man responded, "It wouldn't have been a big loss."

Hate Crimes on Campuses

Anti-Muslim hate crimes have been especially visible on the campuses of universities and colleges nationwide since 9/11. In the Spring of 2003, anti-Muslim rants were shouted towards student Christine Lo's dorm room at Yale. Lo had hung an upside-down American flag outside of her window to protest the war in Iraq. The ranting students also attempted to pry open her door with a plank of wood. After they left, Lo found a note prompting Americans to kill Muslims and ''launch so many missiles their mothers don't produce healthy offspring.'' Yale administrator Raphael Soifer also became the target of discrimination when a Yale student spit at him in a dining hall and exclaimed ''I hope you and your families die! Why don't you go live in Iraq." Similar threats have been found at institutions such as San Jose State University (California) in 2003, where graffiti in the bathroom claimed, ''Muslims will be shot on SJSU campus on March 10!'' At the University of California Los Angeles Medical Center, moreover, Muslim prayer rugs were discovered soaked in pig's blood.

Status Quo

The trends indicated by the CAIR report, moreover, continue to hold true in 2005. As recently as June 2005, a Baltimore mosque was vandalized and the incident is suspected to be bias-related. Red paint was splashed on the mosque's sign, walls and fence. As Washington Post columnist Colbert I. King noted in his July 2, 2005 article entitled "Let's Proudly Hail the Rights of All," anti-Muslim sentiments are as prevalent as ever, even comparable to sentiments held by many of Japanese Americans during World War II. In June 2005 alone, King notes, a man was sentenced for firebombing an El Paso mosque, a Qur'an was desecrated with human waste in Nashville, a mosque was burned in California, a bag of burned Qur'ans was left outside an Islamic center in Virginia, and an Islamic school in Miami was vandalized for the third time. Political freedom, he muses, is perhaps not extended to Muslim Americans.
http://pluralism.org/reports/view/104


Adding enhanced penalties for crimes which are bias-related is really a drop in the bucket as far as dealing with attitudinal problems of prejudice and outright hated, but at least it helps to send a message that overt criminal acts motivated by bias are unacceptable in a society committed to upholding everyone's civil rights and civil liberties. If that's the best we can do, I'll settle for that.





0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The majority does not have unlimited rights, for instance the majority does not have the right to violate the constitution


It didn't even take a majority to write a constitution replete with unlimited rights for the majority.

Quote:
nor the right to maintain an unjust "justice" system.


That has been the case for the majority of years that the US has existed.

0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
The Horror of Hate Crimes", but to read posts by either Hawkeye or BillRM you would have no feeling of horror about such crimes,
Crimes are not more horrible because you dont like the motive for the crime, crimes are horrible only based upon the level of trespass, the judging of which has no role for getting into guessing about the motive...the motive is irrelevant.


If a group or an individual is explicitly targeted for a crime because they happen to be a certain skin color or prefer a certain lifestyle that needs to be addressed in any criminal proceeding. Motive is ENTIRELY relevant in all criminal cases, whether they be hate-crime related or not.

Quote:
Quote:
or the killing of the Latino man on Long Island, are no different than the acts of organized groups like the KKK,
which begs the question why do you think that you needed to make new law to handle these cases, do you have any evidence that the old law did not deliver justice? It seems to have worked just fine to deal with the KKK.


Because of the motive behind it. They don't just target the singular person or persons of a specific group, but they target everyone that falls into those groups as well. They have such wide-ranging impact that they can hardly be dealt with the same way as an isolated incident.



firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 03:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
which begs the question why do you think that you needed to make new law to handle these cases, do you have any evidence that the old law did not deliver justice?

These aren't new laws, they are enhanced penalties for violating already existing criminal laws when bias, as defined by statute, motivates the selection of the victim or group of victims.
Quote:
Crimes are not more horrible because you dont like the motive for the crime, crimes are horrible only based upon the level of trespass, the judging of which has no role for getting into guessing about the motive...the motive is irrelevant.

The "level of trespass" is often determined by the motive, or intention, of the person committing the criminal act, or by the choice of victim. That is certainly the case with the killing of another human being--whether the intention, or motive, was to cause the death, is what separates accidental behavior from reckless behavior, from murder. Motive is a factor in many laws. And some crimes are regarded as "more horrible" because of motive/intention. And selection of particular types of victims also figures into other laws and penalties--penalties might be harsher, for instance, when a particular criminal act involves a child victim.
Quote:
When the state is judging the accused and if they are found guilty is handing out punishment that could include death my first order of business is to make sure that the state treats the accused fairly. I cant do anything about what has already happened, that I had nothing to do with, and if I want to help out the victim I have every opportunity to do it by way of charity so there is no need to weaken and pollute the justice system with pity for the victim.

I have heard no one here say that they do not want to see the state treat all those accused of crimes fairly. But that has nothing to do with a perfectly normal human response of feeling compassion, or empathy, for the victim of a crime, or repulsion at the nature of a particular crime.
That you see normal human emotional responses of that nature as "polluting the justice system with pity for the victim" simply reinforces my contention that you personally lack the capacity for empathic identification with others--a deficit generally regarded as indicative of psychopathology. And, in the case of bias-related crimes, understanding the impact on the victim, and the impact on the group to which that victim belongs, really is a first step in initiating a community dialogue and more appropriately addressing any group animus which might exist, in order to insure and protect everyone's civil liberties. First you have to recognize a problem, then you can deal with it. You, unfortunately, tend to deny the problem.

I knew your alleged disinterest in this thread was too good to be true.





0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 06:17 pm
Maybe this will help get us back on topic.

Quote:
Montgomery, Alabama (CNN) -- The security camera footage broadcast by CNN shows a grisly scene: a black man in Jackson, Mississippi, being fatally run over by a pickup truck after he was viciously beaten in a motel parking lot on a Sunday morning in June. Prosecutors say a group of white teens chose the man at random. They say the alleged ringleader, an 18-year-old now charged with murder, laughed about it afterward and boasted in a phone conversation about how he "ran that n----- over."

When we're confronted with such a shocking act of violence, we search for answers. We want to know what's in the hearts and minds of the attackers. We wonder what motivates someone to extinguish a life for no other reason than the color of the person's skin.

And, in an odd way, some people take comfort in the fact that it happened in Mississippi, with its legacy of Jim Crow segregation and terrorism aimed at the African-American community. We want to see the crime as simply a reflection of a Deep South state still haunted by its racist past -- something that couldn't happen in other parts of this country.

It's wishful thinking.

In Patchogue, New York, Marcelo Lucero, a 37-year-old Ecuadorian immigrant, was stabbed to death in 2008 when he was attacked by a gang of white teens who decided to hunt down and attack Latinos for sport -- or as they called it, "beaner hopping."

Globalization and our economic woes are leaving many young people without hope for the future.

J. Richard CohenIn Huntington Beach, California, three men and a woman with white supremacist tattoos went into a predominantly Latino neighborhood on July 3, 2009, looking for a "nonwhite" to hurt. They attacked a Latino man in an alley. Yelling racial slurs, they reportedly stabbed him three times.

In West Allis, Wisconsin, the opening night of the state fair this month turned to mayhem when dozens of black youths began attacking white people. A 16-year-old boy detained by police said he and others attacked white people because they were "easy targets," according to The Christian Science Monitor.

We can't pretend that what happened in Mississippi that June morning couldn't happen elsewhere. It already has, and it will again.

The social fabric in our country is fragile, and the fault lines are often defined by race. Our communities and schools are increasingly segregated. Globalization and our economic woes are leaving many young people without hope for the future. And we're seeing a backlash against the nation's changing ethnic makeup. All of this provides fertile ground for bigotry and violence to take root and flourish. Meanwhile, our political system seems paralyzed, incapable of protecting the interests of working people, much less pulling us together.

Messages of hate and bigotry can be found not only on the fringes of our society but virtually nonstop on television, talk radio and the Internet, where certain groups of people are demonized and held up as scapegoats for our problems. Too many of our politicians pour fuel on the fire by exploiting divisions in our society -- fostering an us-versus-them mentality and casting entire groups of people as "the other."

Despite the promise of the Obama presidency, it's time to realize we're not living in a "post-racial" society. It's time to speak out against bigotry and to call out those in public life who encourage hate and violence with their words. And it's time to invest in the future of our nation and its youth -- to provide hope and opportunity to the next generation. Our future depends on it.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/08/17/opinion/cohen-racial-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 07:49 am
To me, this is true horror...................a human being that lacks any kind of conscience.

Quote:
"He was not remorseful. He was laughing, laughing about the killing," said district attorney Smith.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/17/mississippi.hate.crime/index.html?hpt=ju_t1
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 10:54 am
@Questioner,
Should the pepretrators of "hate murders" be executed twice or tortured to death? Should they recieve a life sentence of brutally hard labor?

How do you propose that they be dealth with?

This was indeed a horrendous crime and its horrific nature should be taken into consideration in the punishment phase of the perpetrators, but is it any more horrendous than the rape and murder of a child, or terrorizing and murdering an elderly couple?

What if the murder was a a single, instantly fatal shot to the head from a distance? That might be labeled a "hate crime," but would it be as horrific?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 12:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

This was indeed a horrendous crime and its horrific nature should be taken into consideration in the punishment phase of the perpetrators, but is it any more horrendous than the rape and murder of a child, or terrorizing and murdering an elderly couple?

I'm not sure that there is any point to playing a guessing game about which crimes are the most horrific. Suffice to say that all the crimes you mention would carry very harsh sentences.
Quote:
What if the murder was a a single, instantly fatal shot to the head from a distance? That might be labeled a "hate crime," but would it be as horrific?

I think all "hate crimes" are horrible by their very nature, including those that deface and destroy property rather than harm human beings, because of the message of bigotry, hostility, and intimidation, they convey to an entire group.

The essence of a bias-crime is whether the victim(s) were selected on the basis of bias/animosity/discrimination/prejudice and not the nature of the crime itself.
Quote:
Should the pepretrators of "hate murders" be executed twice or tortured to death? Should they recieve a life sentence of brutally hard labor?

How do you propose that they be dealth with?

The penalties are generally determined by state or federal statute--generally it is an increased sentence for the criminal act itself, whether that act is murder, manslaughter, assault, vandalism, robbery, etc. if it is determined that those criminal acts were done with bias, or "as a hate crime".

In Mississippi, those charged have not yet been indicted. The charge for Deryl Dedmon, the driver of the truck that killed Anderson, is currently murder. The D.A. has said that he will prosecute this case as a hate crime. That could potentially double Dedmon's sentence under Mississippi law which would effectively keep him in prison for the rest of his life. I believe there has been no talk of a death penalty in this case. A hate crime enhancement would also increase the potential sentence for the other teen in this case who has been charged with assaulting Anderson before he was killed. The federal government is also investigating this case for civil rights violations.

This would be the first time that anyone has ever been prosecuted under Mississippi's "hate crime" statute.
Quote:
Jackson hit-and-run death may be prosecuted under Mississippi hate crime law
Aug. 17, 2011

Hinds County District Attorney Robert Shuler Smith said Wednesday he plans to prosecute the June 26 hit-and-run killing of James Craig Anderson as a hate crime.

This could mark the first-ever prosecution under Mississippi's 1994 hate crime law. Criminal records reported to the Administrative Office of Courts reflect no case that used the law. Appeals courts records also show no appeal involving the law.
FBI spokeswoman Deborah Madden said agents are investigating the death of Anderson to "determine whether federal civil rights crimes occurred."
The Jackson Police Department recently concluded its investigation...

Smith has called the slaying a hate crime by two white teens against a middle-aged black man, "murder by physically assaulting and purposefully using a 1998 Ford F-250 to run over James Craig Anderson."
Deryl Dedmon, 19, of Brandon, who is accused of driving the truck, is charged with murder. John Aaron Rice, 18, also of Brandon, is charged with simple assault for allegedly attacking Anderson before he was killed.
Their attorneys deny they were involved in a racially motivated attack. One of the teen's attorneys said the group was on a beer run that morning, not out looking for a black man to assault, as prosecutors allege. Rice's attorney says Rice wasn't there when Anderson was hit by the truck...

Smith said he hopes to present a case to a Hinds County grand jury by early fall.
If Dedmon were convicted, his sentence could be doubled under the hate crime law.
Smith said such a trial would resemble a capital murder trial, with jurors deliberating first on the "guilt" phase. If the defendant were convicted, there would be a second phase where jurors determine the sentence.

Under the law, prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the offense was committed by reason of the actual or perceived "race, color, ancestry, ethnicity, religion, national origin or gender of the victim."

Dedmon is charged as the driver of the green Ford F-250. He's being held in the Hinds County jail on an $800,000 bond. Rice posted a $5,000 bond, although Smith has said Rice could still be charged with murder.

In a recent hearing, Jackson police Detective Eric Smith testified Dedmon had been robbed by a black man in the weeks before Anderson's death and was looking for "some sort of revenge" when the group left a party in Rankin County, allegedly in search of a random black person "to mess with." Seven people headed to Jackson in two cars, with Dedmon and Rice in separate vehicles.

The district attorney has said racial slurs were used during the attack and that Dedmon later bragged that he "just ran that n----- over."
But Rice's attorney, Samuel Martin, has suggested the teens went to Jackson to buy beer - not to look for a black man...

Former prosecutor Patricia Bennett, a professor at Mississippi College School of Law, said believing a hate crime has taken place and proving it in a courtroom are often two different things.
"It's hard to prove a crime is racially motivated," she said. "Most often, it's going to be prosecuted just as that crime."
What makes this criminal case unique are the reported statements by Dedmon, she said. "That would be admissible to show his state of mind and intent at the time."

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20110818/NEWS/108180341/Hit-run-death-may-tried-under-Miss-hate-crime-law




firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 01:27 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
To me, this is true horror...................a human being that lacks any kind of conscience.

That lack of conscience is what makes him so dangerous to the community. It would justify putting him in prison for the rest of his life.
But it is also clear that he had to regard his victim, and all blacks, as being somewhat less than human, in order to laugh about and boast about this killing.

This teen also had a past history of bullying others, and, I think, homophobia, and the white pastor of a church had complained about him in the past because his son had been the target of some of the bullying. So, what was brewing inside of this young man had been simmering for a long time.

There are some other interesting issues with this case to think about....

It is interesting to consider whether the real motive in cases like this is a need for power, or a feeling of power, and it is that need which finds its expression in the beating and killing of a person regarded as an inferior, or, in the case of black on white hate crimes, a person regarded as a possible oppressor. A power motive is not really the same as a bias motive, although they might overlap.

These teens were very possibly intoxicated, and what might have begun and ended as a bias-related assault escalated to a murder because of the dis-inhibiting effects of alcohol on aggression and on judgment--and the dis-inhibiting effects of alcohol might have also affected the types of statements, and the emotions Dedmon displayed after the killing. I'm not offering this as an excuse, but simply as another element in this crime. With regard to Dodson's verbal statements, I do believe, "In vino veritas".

This crime took place in a parking lot outside a motel, and other people were in the area and did not intervene. I'm not sure that can be just chalked up to the effects of bystander apathy or diffusion of responsibility. I think one of the people in the area was a security guard for the motel. Why didn't that person, who should have had some sense of responsibility, act or intervene in some way when Anderson was getting beaten up?

The article you posted had this comment...
Quote:
It's time to speak out against bigotry and to call out those in public life who encourage hate and violence with their words.

I agree with that.

In Suffolk County, N.Y., the strong anti-immigrant political rhetoric may have helped to fuel the hostility toward Latinos that led to the hate-crime killing of Marcelo Lucero. And, all across the country, anti-immigrant rhetoric directed toward Hispanics has increased hate crimes toward all Latinos.

Anti-Muslim political rhetoric has increased anger and hostility and suspicion toward all Muslims. including Muslim Americans, and this was overwhelmingly apparent in the political grandstanding, particularly from Republicans, that went on with the opposition to a proposed mosque/community center to be built near the WTC site, and opposition to the building of mosques in other parts of the country.

Political homophobic rhetoric often comes from social conservatives and those on the religious right, and the issue of same sex marriage has increased the ferocity of such rhetoric. It's one thing to simply express a religious viewpoint on same sex marriage, or even the matter of homosexuality, and quite another to demonize or incite hatred toward a group on the basis of sexual orientation.

I think we should put pressure on those who hold public office, or seek such office, to tone down the emotionally inflammatory nature of their rhetoric and their use of violence-tinged imagery, when it is encouraging hatred, and scapegoating, and possibly violence, toward any group. Resorting to that sort of political tactic is downright toxic and irresponsible and I think we in the public, as well as those in the media, have to stop enabling it.


0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 01:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Firstly, I'm referring to hate crime as a whole, not just the murder aspect of it. But to answer your questions as it relates to murder:

Executed twice? No. But in the many states that don't endorse/employ the death penalty a stricter punishment of life without parole should be a standard.

Targeting anyone for a pre-meditated or otherwise act of violence that was based solely on the color of their skin is horrific. Period. Yes, it's also horrific if the target was based on ease of predation or revenge of some type, but in the instance of hate-crimes the idea is to lessen the 'allure' of racially-motivated attacks such as this, which wouldn't have happened to the individual had he not been black and the perpetrators not been looking to make some type of racial statement.

I don't know if that answered everything you asked but it's what I can fire off before this meeting.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 01:45 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He's being held in the Hinds County jail on an $800,000 bond.


Huh???
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 02:05 pm
@JTT,
It's probably an error. I think that should read he's being held in jail, "in lieu of $800,000 bail"--I think he is still in jail.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 02:45 pm
@Questioner,
May I assume that you believe that a member of any race can be guilty of a hate crime?

Am I correct that you believe enhanced punishment for "hate crimes" will act as a deterrent?

Isn't it appropriate to similarly impose enhanced punishment as a deterrent to the "allure" of crimes committed against children and the elderly?

I don't know you nearly well enough to make any assumptions about the origins of your opinion, nor will I, however I do know a number of people who agree with you that crimes perceived to be motivated by a hatred for a minority are deserving of greater punishment, because it is the one and only crime for which they feel no compulsion to examine the motivation and circumstances of the criminal.

Virtually every other criminal's action are subject to mitigation based on the nature of their upbringing, their sense of personal persecution, or hopelessness, but not the Hate Criminal.

Believe me, I'm not arguing that murderous skinheads should have their crimes viewed in the context of their personal experience and the general experience of their "clan."

I just don't understand (and I realize that since you may not share the opinion you may not be able to explain it) how so many folks who are loath to harshly judge any number of different varieties of heinous criminals are right there and ready to throw the book at the Hate Criminal.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 02:53 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Isn't it appropriate to similarly impose enhanced punishment as a deterrent to the "allure" of crimes committed against children and the elderly?

That has already been done.
Quote:
Virtually every other criminal's action are subject to mitigation based on the nature of their upbringing, their sense of personal persecution, or hopelessness, but not the Hate Criminal

That is absolutely not true.

Some defense attorneys have tried the "abuse excuse"--it generally does not work with juries.
Sometimes mitigation will result in a less severe sentence, but that's generally mitigating factors at the time of the crime and related to it (as in the case of a battered wife who kills her husband), not issues from their past.

Do you really care whether a drunk driver who kills someone had a lousy childhood?. Do you care if the robber who broke into your home and stole your TV did it because he couldn't afford to buy one?

Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 03:07 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Virtually every other criminal's action are subject to mitigation based on the nature of their upbringing, their sense of personal persecution, or hopelessness, but not the Hate Criminal.


Boy, that's a tough one for me. I do agree that if a person is in immediate danger they have a right to protect themselves. The "abuse excuse" is not something I accept. I know things can influence us but most people know right from wrong and in the final analysis, each person is responsible for their actions.

I wouldn't be surprised if that young man that ran over the black man had been subjected to the "skinhead" mentality somewhere but still he had to know what he did was wrong.

Unfortunately, life is not as black and white as I'd like it to be sometimes.
 

Related Topics

2016 moving to #1 spot - Discussion by gungasnake
Black Lives Matter - Discussion by TheCobbler
Is 'colored people' offensive? - Question by SMickey
Obama, a Joke - Discussion by coldjoint
The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
The ECHR and muslims - Discussion by Arend
Atlanta Race Riot 1906 - Discussion by kobereal24
Quote of the Day - Discussion by Tabludama
The Confederacy was About Slavery - Discussion by snood
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 11/25/2024 at 01:50:27