10
   

Germany has Officially gone Looney Tunes

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Are saying that the official data given by our Federal Office of Statistics are wrong????

I am saying that the results so far support my original assessment that German energy policy has gone Looney Tunes.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:33 am
@hawkeye10,
Might be. But the electricity companies (and the taxman) like it ....
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:37 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Sudden fluctuations in Germany's power grid are causing major damage to a number of industrial companies. While many of them have responded by getting their own power generators and regulators to help minimize the risks, they warn that companies might be forced to leave if the government doesn't deal with the issues fast


I wonder where they think they'll go.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,


Walter Hinteler wrote:

Might be. But the electricity companies (and the taxman) like it ....
that is not the test, it is "is this good for Germany?".
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:42 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I wonder where they think they'll go.

there are many EU nations that can manage to run a stable electric grid while charging reasonable prices, but the Germans no longer do.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:12 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
there are many EU nations that can manage to run a stable electric grid


really? I suppose if they were willing to travel north that might be possible. maybe.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:18 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
really? I suppose if they were willing to travel north that might be possible. maybe.


France is north of Germany with all their nuclear power stations that allowed them to be big time sellers of electric to others EU nations including the oh so green Germany?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:25 am
@BillRM,
France isn't noted for the stability of its grid.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100581152 ... weeks ago

http://nuclearstreet.com/nuclear-power-plants/b/nuclear-plant-outages/archive/2012/05/15/edf-39-s-gravelines-6-nuclear-reactor-in-france-experiences-unplanned-outage-051502.aspx ... months ago

...

http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2013/04/01/can-the-french-power-grid-handle-all-the-electric-vehicles/

Quote:
France’s aging power grid could possibly fail. The power grid in France is already at the edge of failure, experiencing higher-than-usual electricity demand, especially in the winter [read: electric heating].


http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Electricity-Transmission-Grids/

Quote:
France's grid operator RTE plans to invest EUR 15 billion ($19 billion) on the nation's grid by 2020, and a further EUR 20 billion by 2030 with the present energy mix. However, it says that EUR 50 billion would be required by 2030 if the government decides to reduce nuclear share from 75% to 50% of supply and replace this with renewables. Either way, the grid investments are needed to improve security of supply and accommodate rising renewable power capacity.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:26 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
big time sellers of electric to others EU nations including the oh so green Germany?


did you miss the bit Walter posted about Germany exporting power?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:34 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
France is north of Germany


This is as right as anything you've posted.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:50 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
BillRM wrote:
France is north of Germany


This is as right as anything you've posted.



LOL every once in a blue moon I will looked at one of your postings to see how silly you are being and your turning a clear sarcastic question into a statement of fact is another fun example.

The US have JTT as a hater where anything that the US does is both wrong and evil and on a more personal level I have a crazy Englishman doing the same thing concerning my postings.

Like JTT your attacks can be funny but they are only worth looking at rarely.


Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:54 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

France is north of Germany with all their nuclear power stations that allowed them to be big time sellers of electric to others EU nations including the oh so green Germany?
I beg your pardon? Perhaps you have a look at a map?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 11:56 am
@BillRM,
We are not green at all - our federal government is a conservative-liberal coalition, the Greens are one of the opposition parties.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:01 pm
@BillRM,
Again: in 2012 (after a couple of nuclear stations were closed) we imported 43.8 TWh (worth 2.3 billion €); we exported 66.6 TWh (worth 3.7 billion €) ...

And electricity to/from France? Le Monde wrote in January 2013:La France recommence à importer de l'électricité d'Allemagne ...
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:03 pm
@BillRM,
I know you're stupid, but sometimes I forget just how stupid you are. How could describing France as lying north of Germany be considered sarcastic?

The sarcasm, such as it was, was contained in the phrase 'oh so green Germany' not France's location relative to Germany.

The fact is you're wrong, and you're either too stupid to see you're wrong, or so stupid that you think anyone will believe your sarcasm bullshit.

Here's something you've probably not come across before, a map with a handy little compass point so you can work out just how wrong you are.
http://www.oneika-the-traveller.com/wp-content/uploads/image-import/_AOPszQIhbM8/S7Fc0IY_8AI/AAAAAAAAA5U/4O5IMxzHkOs/s1600/europe-map.gif
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
France imported electricity from Germany - net 8.7 TWh in 2009 , 2010 as well as in 2012. (In 2011 the amount was higher.) (Source: RTE, Réseau de Transport d’Electricité, 22 January 2013: Bilan électrique 2012 )
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
I beg your pardon? Perhaps you have a look at a map?


Perhaps instead you can look at my posting instead to see that it was not a statement of fact but a sarcastic question instead!!!!!!!!!!!!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Export-Import of electricity from our "northern" neighbour country (source: see above)
http://i49.tinypic.com/33p7soy.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:35 pm
@BillRM,
Oh, sorry, instead I've actually totally missed instead that you were referring to the electricity imports from Germany to France instead of our imports due to the closure of eight nuclear power stations. My bad.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 12:38 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The below just prove that nothing is ever simple however France is a net exporter of electric power on a very large scale using imports for short time periods of high demands instead of building more peak demand generators themselves


Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

As of 2012, France's electricity price to household customers is the 7th cheapest amongst the 27 member European Union, and also the 7th cheapest to industrial consumers, with a rate of €0.14/kWh to households and €0.07/kWh to industrial consumers.[3] France was the biggest energy exporter in the EU in 2012, exporting 45TWh of electricity to its neighbours.[4] During very cold or hot periods demand routinely exceeds supply due to the lack of more flexible generating plants, and France needs to import electricity.[5][6]
Électricité de France (EDF) — the country's main electricity generation and distribution company — manages the country's 59 nuclear power plants.[7] EDF is substantially owned by the French Government, with around 85% shares in government hands.[8]


Quote:

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-A-F/France/#.UVskwKJBS1k

n 2011 French electricity generation was 542 billion kWh net, and consumption was 478 billion kWh (down from 513 billion kWh in 2010 due to being a mild year) - about 6800 kWh per person. Winter demand varies by 2300 MWe per degree C. Over the last decade France has exported up to 70 billion kWh net each year and EdF expects exports to continue at 65-80 TWh/yr, principally to Switzerland and Italy, as well as to Germany, Belgium, Spain, and UK. In 2011, net export was 56 billion kWh.

France has 58 nuclear reactors operated by Electricite de France (EdF), with total capacity of over 63 GWe, supplying 421 billion kWh per year of electricity (net), 78% of the total generated there in 2011.
Total generating capacity (end 2011) is 126 GWe, including 25 GWe hydro, 28 GWe fossil fuel, 6.6 GWe wind and 2.2 GWe solar PV. Peak demand is about 100 GWe. In 2010 gross production was 429 billion kWh from nuclear, 68 from hydro, 27 from coal and 26 from natural gas, of total 573 billion kWh.
The present situation is due to the French government deciding in 1974, just after the first oil shock, to expand rapidly the country's nuclear power capacity, using Westinghouse technology. This decision was taken in the context of France having substantial heavy engineering expertise but few indigenous energy resources. Nuclear energy, with the fuel cost being a relatively small part of the overall cost, made good sense in minimising imports and achieving greater energy security.
As a result of the 1974 decision, France now claims a substantial level of energy independence and almost the lowest cost electricity in Europe. It also has an extremely low level of CO2 emissions per capita from electricity generation, since over 90% of its electricity is nuclear or hydro.
In mid 2010 a regular energy review of France by the International Energy Agency urged the country increasingly to take a strategic role as provider of low-cost, low-carbon base-load power for the whole of Europe rather than to concentrate on the energy independence which had driven policy since 1973.
Recent energy policy
 

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