8
   

I am (as usual) confused

 
 
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:32 pm
It seems that all I hear on the news these days is alarm over the "childhood obesity epidemic." That's right: obesity. That's right: epidemic. Now it seems that large numbers of poor kids are suffering from -- guess what! -- malnutrition. Could someone enlighten me as to just what the dietary problems of today's youth actually are? Are we worried about obesity when we shopuld be worried about the exact opposite? Inquiring minds want to know.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/07/28/ranks_of_hungry_children_swell_worrying_doctors/
 
JPB
 
  5  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:35 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Are you thinking that malnourishment and obesity aren't related? Kids today each junk. Pounds and pounds of body fat put on by eating tons and tons of nutritionally empty calories.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:41 pm
The answer is 42. It doesn't matter what the questions are, the answer is 42.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:46 pm
@Setanta,
I already knew that.

But I'm still confused.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:49 pm
@JPB,
Did you read the link? We're not talking about obese malnourished kids here. From the descriptions in the BosGlobe story it sounds like kids who look like recently rescued Nazi concentration camp inmates. Distended bellies, maybe, but obese...?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:50 pm
@JPB,
I'm agreeing strongly with JPB. There are some fairly large areas of some (probably many) cities with very poor access to healthy foods. Back through the years of my time in Los Angeles, it was south LA. Not south of LA, but the somewhat southern section of the city. That section also had rather horrible access to public transit, which made it hard to get to jobs as well as to an ordinary grocery store. What they did have were liquor stores that sold chips, and so on. I don't have the numbers, but I'm sure they were compiled at some point, re the stores in the rather large area of the city.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:54 pm
@ossobuco,
I also remember that the grocery stores that were anywhere near the troubled areas of town had the worst produce sections.

Now this pattern may not fully explain the obesity crisis, but it is part of it.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:56 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Did you read the link?


Nope. But, I just did.

Lustig Andrei wrote:
We're not talking about obese malnourished kids here. From the descriptions in the BosGlobe story it sounds like kids who look like recently rescued Nazi concentration camp inmates. Distended bellies, maybe, but obese...?


The one connection they're trying to make between the two is that early malnutrition may result in later obesity.

Quote:
While the nation’s spotlight has been trained on the other end of the spectrum, the problem of childhood obesity, Pérez-Escamilla and other researchers report evidence that early hunger may be linked to later obesity.

Some studies have found that young children who grow up with not enough to eat can become overweight or obese adolescents and adults, though the link is not firmly established.

“Babies born with low birth weight may become metabolically programmed during gestation to become very efficient at conserving calories, thus becoming obese later in life,’’ Pérez-Escamilla said.


I don't think they're trying to make a strong connection here. Just that there are two large groups of kids who aren't getting proper nutrition. Those who eat a lot of junk and those who don't eat much of anything.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:57 pm
@JPB,
oops, missed that part.
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 05:49 pm
what do you expect would happen? poor people can't afford good food, the only chicken they get is in nugget form, the only treat they get is a visit to fast food dumps, the parents probably smoke and drink to deal with the depressing life they r leading, reducing the even smaller income to nothing due to targeted taxes which make the poor poorer and the rich richer. Its very sad to see that in this day and age.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 03:39 am
@BDV,
Quote:
poor people can't afford good food,


Who says?

Poor people, most often, simply won't put the effort into cooking decent food.
It's easier to go to Mcdonalds, or order a pizza.
It is far cheaper to cook a decent meal at home than it is to eat junk.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 04:18 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
It seems that all I hear on the news these days is alarm over the "childhood obesity epidemic." That's right: obesity. That's right: epidemic. Now it seems that large numbers of poor kids are suffering from -- guess what! -- malnutrition. Could someone enlighten me as to just what the dietary problems of today's youth actually are? Are we worried about obesity when we shopuld be worried about the exact opposite? Inquiring minds want to know.

The childhood obesity problem is a problem in the general population--just as adult obesity is--and usually refers to older children. The article you've linked to is discussing the issue of malnutrition among only the poorer groups, specifically in Massachusetts, and it attributes the rise in underweight and malnourished young children and infants to the downturn in the economy over the past 3 or 4 years. Food costs have risen, reliance on food banks and soup kitchens has increased, and state outreach programs in Massachusetts, to help people get on food stamps, lack enough staffing to help more people enroll--these poorer people simply can't afford to feed their very young children, let alone feed them a healthy diet. The poorer groups always struggle more, and the effects of the recession have hit this segment more profoundly, but formerly middle-class families are also struggling to feed their children these days due to unemployment, and rising costs in housing, home heating, gas for cars, and food.

Reading the article you posted, I was reminded of why we need school lunch programs, and breakfast programs too, to help insure that older children from economically struggling groups do receive enough to eat and to see that they are provided with nutritionally adequate meals for at least part of the day. Unfortunately, these safety nets do not help the infants and toddlers and very young children that the article focuses on. One benefit of the Head Start programs has been to help pre-school children receive adequate food during the day, but a great many needy children aren't in such programs.

Yes, we have a childhood obesity problem--we have children who aren't active enough, eat too much food that is high in sugar, fats, and calories, eat too little fruit, vegetables and whole grains, and who too often are given fast food or junk food in the name of convenience or expediency. But that's a problem among those who actually have the money to buy food. The problems among those who are too poor to adequately feed their children, particularly their infants and very young children, really reflect the impact of poverty and not just poor food choices, or adequate access to fresh produce--these children may literally be starving because the parents' choice may be to pay the rent or buy food and they just can't afford both.

So, I don't see wide-spread malnutrition, of the type discussed in that article, as a problem for the general population of children, but I do think it's a very serious problem for the affected groups, and a problem that should concern everyone.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 12:28 pm
@wayne,
Quote:
Poor people, most often, simply won't put the effort into cooking decent food.
It's easier to go to Mcdonalds, or order a pizza.
It is far cheaper to cook a decent meal at home than it is to eat junk.


Well, I think it's cheaper to eat at home than to go to a fast food place, but that's because I am a careful shopper--I shop the weekly supermarket specials, use coupons, and buy in season fruits and vegetables (as well as frozen vegetables on sale). Right now, I have the time to do that, and I also have access to 3 or 4 large supermarkets which expands my range of choices.

But, poorer people don't always have the same options I do. The poorer neighborhoods, particularly in urban areas, often don't have the big supermarkets where you can get better values. They have small grocery stores, with higher prices, and lots of fast food places. And their eating habits, and preferences may be shaped by very different factors than mine are--I am health conscious about what I eat, I don't want to be overweight, and I can afford to be choosy about what I put in my mouth and I can't imagine wanting to consume fast food with any degree of frequency since I don't eat that stuff at all.

But, many low income and poor children grow up in homes where that is not the case. I drive through neighborhoods where I see teens walking to school while drinking a can of soda and eating a bag of chips as breakfast. And even the kids from a local group home will pass up a nutritious breakfast at the home and stop off for the soda and chips, so deeply ingrained are the habits, preferences, and lack of concern about health. I'm sure they teach about nutrition in the schools these children attend, the message just doesn't get through--and generations have grown up thinking this same way.

And I think we have to distinguish between the low income groups and the very poor. Low income groups have some choice about how they want to spend, and those groups might definitely benefit from having available large supermarkets, or even a Walmart, to help them stretch their food dollars and have more fresh food in their diets. Over time, just the availability of affordable healthy food might help to change the way people eat and what kind of meals they prepare for their children.

But the very poor, who have to try to get by on a very few dollars a day for food, might still be forced toward the junk because it is the cheaper alternative. While I'd like to believe that is not the case, I must admit that it's apparently true. I just don't know what it's like to be that poor.
Quote:
New York Times
November 4, 2008
Money Is Tight, and Junk Food Beckons
By TARA PARKER-POPE

How much does it really cost to eat a healthy diet?

Economists, health researchers and consumers are struggling to answer that question as food prices rise and the economy slumps. The World Bank says nearly a billion people around the world live on a dollar a day, or even less; in the United States, the daily food-stamp allowance is typically just a few dollars per person, while the average American eats $7 worth of food per day.

Even middle-class people struggle to put healthful food on the table. Studies show that junk foods tend to cost less than fruits, vegetables and other healthful foods, whose prices continue to rise.

This fall a couple in Encinitas, Calif., conducted their own experiment to find out what it was like to live for a month on just a dollar a day for food. Overnight, their diets changed significantly. The budget forced them to give up many store-bought foods and dinners out. Even bread and canned refried beans were too expensive.

Instead, the couple — Christopher Greenslate, 28, and Kerri Leonard, 29, both high school social studies teachers — bought raw beans, rice, cornmeal and oatmeal in bulk, and made their own bread and tortillas. Fresh fruits and vegetables weren’t an option. Ms. Leonard’s mother was so worried about scurvy, a result of vitamin C deficiency, that they made room in their budget for Tang orange drink mix. (They don’t eat meat — not that they could have afforded it.)

Breakfast consisted of oatmeal; lunch was a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Dinner often consisted of beans, rice and homemade tortillas. Homemade pancakes were affordable, but syrup was not; a local restaurant gave them a few free syrup packets.

One of the biggest changes was the time they had to spend in meal preparation.

“If you’re buying raw materials, you’re spending more time preparing things,” Mr. Greenslate said. “We’d come home after working 10 to 11 hours and have to roll out tortillas. If you’re already really hungry at that point, it’s tough.”

While he lost weight on the budget diet, Mr. Greenslate said, the larger issue was his lack of energy. During the experiment he was no longer able to work out at the gym.

A few times they found a bag of carrots or lettuce that was within their budget, but produce was usually too expensive. They foraged for lemons on the trees in their neighborhood to squeeze juice into their water.

Ms. Leonard said that after the 30-day experiment, one of the first foods she ate was a strawberry. “I almost cried,” she said.

The couple acknowledged that the experiment was something of a luxury, given that many people have no choice about how much to spend on food.

“People in our situation have the leisure to be concerned about issues like this,” Ms. Leonard said. “If we were actually living in this situation, I would not be taking the time to be concerned about what I could and could not have; I’d be worried about survival.”

Researchers say the experiment reflects many of the challenges that poor people actually face. When food stamps and income checks run low toward the end of the month, they often do scrape by on a dollar a day or less. But many people don’t know how to prepare foods from scratch, or lack the time.

“You have to know how to cook beans and rice, how to make tortillas, how to soak lentils,” said Adam Drewnowski, director of the Center for Public Health Nutrition at the University of Washington. “Many people don’t have the knowledge or the time if they’re working two jobs.”

Last year, Dr. Drewnowski led a study, published in The Journal of the American Dietetic Association, comparing the prices of 370 foods sold at supermarkets in the Seattle area. The study showed that “energy dense” junk foods, which pack the most calories and fewest nutrients per gram, were far less expensive than nutrient-rich, lower-calorie foods like fruits and vegetables. The prices of the most healthful foods surged 19.5 percent over the two-year study period, while the junk food prices dropped 1.8 percent.

Obesity researchers worry that these trends will push consumers toward less healthful foods. “The message for this year and next year is going to be affordable nutrition,” Dr. Drewnowski said. “It’s not the food pyramid, it’s the budget pyramid.”

The experiment in California was hardly the first of its kind, though the teachers’ budget was tighter than most. Last month Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm of Michigan and her family took a weeklong “food stamp challenge,” spending only $5.87 per day per person on food — the Michigan food stamp allotment. She told reporters that she ended up buying a lot of macaroni and cheese. Last year Gov. Theodore R. Kulongoski of Oregon lived for a week on his state’s $3-a-day food stamp allocation.

Ms. Leonard and Mr. Greenslate, who chronicled their dollar-a-day experience on their blog, onedollardietproject.wordpress.com, say they are looking at other ways to explore how difficult it is for people with limited income to eat a healthful diet.

“I challenge anyone to try to live on a dollar a day and eat fresh food in this country,” Mr. Greenslate said. “I would love to be proven wrong.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/health/nutrition/04well.html

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 01:17 pm
It's not just a matter of fewer choices when it comes to markets. Prices are higher in poor neighborhoods in chain supermarkets. I once worked in a poor neighborhood and there was a chain supermarket in the shopping center where i worked. I would sometimes stop there to buy something for my lunch, but i never did my regular shopping there, because their prices were 5%, 10% and even 20% higher than the same chain supermarket in the neighborhood in which i lived. Everything is more expensive in poor neighborhoods, including gasoline, smokes and booze.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 01:36 pm
@Setanta,
I agree on that, given there is a regular market there in the first place, in the extended poor and troubled areas of town. I didn't live in that kind of trouble, but heard and read about the markups.

I lived in a very mixed area, so not the above, in relatively early years (as time flies) Venice, CA, and there were some good markets around, but the seriously tough neighborhood a few blocks from us, home of the crips and v-13 (at the time) had the market that had, yes, sucky produce, burnt potato chips (major brand), and, I don't remember higher prices so I won't say that for sure, but not cheaper.

My ex, as I've said too many times here on a2k, was from south LA, and that was a very deprived large area, then. Don't know how it is now. If only because of lack of supermarkets, the food available locally in small liquor store markets was at quite a mark up and, obviously, not a good selection. It was an area that people were fearful for some good reasons of opening small markets. Supermarkets stayed away.

I'm so old that I grew up with corner stores - those weren't fabulous, but they were better than what I've been talking about here. It's irrelevant for me to mention the alimentarias in Italy - stores with a bit of this and that, where you could get a freshly roasted pork sammich on good bread, perhaps a fried artichoke, some fresh fruit, cheeses, and so on. Those were like miracle shops to me when I first saw them. So... it's not that I'm against small places; I'm against small choices.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 02:31 pm
@wayne,
What you say doesn't make very much sense, wayne. Why would poor people "go to McDonald's or order a pizza" when it's "cheaper to cook a decent meal at home"? By definition of the word "poor" it would seem that a Big Mac or a pizza would be beyond the means of such people. To these people, going to McDonald's constitutes "eating out", a treat.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 02:31 pm
@Setanta,
It's a conspiracy, that's what it is.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 02:44 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I agree with that, at least somewhat. This kind of gets to levels of poor.

I'm a retired despite myself person with low income who cooks virtually every one of her own meals. Not quite all, but close, and to the extent I can, from fresh food. Make my own bread, bla bla bla. I'm a long time poster on food threads here on a2k and still like to cook, but cooking rises sometimes to the level of pain in the ass, even for me without a job to get to or batch of children to care for.

For stressed people without adequate markets, or sometimes without cooking knowledge or nutrition knowledge, lecturing folks about home cooking is basically condescending.

I'm all for teaching about home ccoking and home gardens in school, but even community gardens can be hard to get into because of the line up of people waiting.

The problems brought up on this thread, including re the very poor in the u.s. who have severe malnutrition, are somewhat interconnected.

Meantime, we are having a certain near hilarious debt crisis for states and the nation, a black cloud for the poor in many ways.

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 04:00 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I live directly across the street from a middle school. Come to think of it, I guess they are keeping the obese kids inside so nobody will make fun of them. The ones they let outside vary from very fit to only somewhat overweight. Everybody else should hide the ugly, fat ones too.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2011 08:28 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
One of the problems with studies like this, they ignore the broad spectrum of the American populace.
There are many types of poor in this country. Our problems with obesity, most likely, spring from an entirely different sector of the population than the malnutrition problem, although obesity is also a form of malnutrition.

There is a huge sector of the working, poor in this country, which spends their time in and out of convenience stores and fast food joints. There grocery cart usually contains such items as bags of pizza rolls, and similar.

As usual, these studies, done with Gov. grants, contribute little to an accurate picture of the whole.
0 Replies
 
 

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