10
   

Campbell Soup Drops the Salt Scare Fanatics

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:00 pm
As for what appears to be Set's idiot claims that the government is not driving a reduction in salt content in food:

Quote:
Meanwhile, other restaurants, in anticipation of potential regulation on sodium use by fast-food chains, more and more restaurants and companies are trying to reduce their salt use without telling customers, reports the Chicago Tribune. This way, they could skirt government backlash without turning off halophilic customers. The hope is that customers can't actually taste the difference between low- and high-sodium foods. Campbell's problem, in this frame of mind, was that customers had been prompted by advertising to expect bland, low-sodium taste, so that's what they really tasted. Without the prompting, they may not notice they're eating healthier food. Given that none of the conflicting studies have found many benefits to high-salt diets, that's probably a good thing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/sodium-debate_n_908951.html
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Your first step was to provide evidence that the government has forced anyone to do anything with regard to salt in processed foods, which you have failed to do. Your next step would be to show how that takes any freedom away from you, which i doubt you can. Although perhaps you don't know they sell boxes of salt at the market which you can use to your heart's content.

Fool.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It’s enraged dieticians and delighted the Salt Institute. But Campbell Soup’s high-profile u-turn on sodium raises some difficult questions about reformulation for all stakeholders.

Reduced sodium is not a killer USP for most consumers
In case you missed the howls of outrage that immediately followed, after an “unsparing analysis” of “strategies that are working and not working”, Campbell has resolved to boldly go back - to almost where it was before - and add some salt back into its Select Harvest soups.

Predictably, dieticians are not happy and lobby groups have accused bosses of taking the easy way out.

After all, points out the Center for Science in the Public Interest, there are plenty of ways to compensate for reduced sodium, from salt replacers and enhancers to extra herbs, spices, veg or other ingredients, provided you are prepared to pay for them.

Where the business case?

But is Campbell really sacrificing consumers’ health to preserve its bottom line, or is it just saying publically what many firms are saying privately, that while we say we want products with less fat, salt and sugar, we don’t always put our money where our month is?

As Paul Newberry, co-founder of UK-based fruit snack maker Stream Foods pointed out at a conference run by our sister title FoodManufacture.co.uk last year, coming up with products that impress angry dieticians is one thing, getting consumers to buy them is another.

“At one time, I was seduced by nutritionists saying I should be doing this or that and I launched 100% fruit desserts with vitamin C. They got into Sainsbury and Tesco, and they met all the nutritional criteria, but nobody bought them and they were delisted. I lost £200,000 but it taught me a lesson: my job is to make products that sell."

And as Campbell's incumbent chief executive Denise Morrison made very clear in her frank analysis of the soup market last week, sodium reduction is not a killer USP for many consumers, whether we like it or not.

Reformulation by stealth

Indeed, many firms have chosen to conduct their costly and technically challenging sodium reduction work ‘by stealth’ rather than shouting about it on pack precisely because telling consumers what they are up to does not sell more products, and may even have the opposite effect.

Firms trying to reduce saturated fat face similar problems, with claims to this effect proving a selling point for consumers on some products, but by no means on all.

The bottom line is that cutting salt, fat and sugar is expensive and difficult, and while manufacturers are facing intense pressure from politicians, health lobbyists and NGOs to get on with it, making a business case, particularly on high-volume, low margin products, is not easy.

Healthy flak

Another aspect to this debate that is often overlooked is that some companies are doing a lot (no one can accuse Campbell for not trying) and others are doing nothing – because they can.

Big brands get all the flak – perhaps rightly so – while many smaller players slip under the radar and continue to produce eye-wateringly salty, fatty and sugary wares without a whiff of bad publicity.

However, the roll out of front-of-pack labelling – which will highlight products’ sodium, saturated fat and added sugar content – will go some way to address this issue by helping consumers make comparisons between products, although the precise scope of these labels is the subject of heated debate.

Chickens, eggs and compromise

So where does all this leave us? And was Campbell right to reach for the salt shaker?

I’ll give the last word to Lori Colman of marketing agency Colman Brohan Davis, who takes a pragmatic view.

“Packaged foods have been so laden with sodium for so long that consumers believe that’s what food tastes like … and when there isn’t as much sodium, they complain that food is bland. CPG companies have essentially ‘hooked’ people on the flavor and now use ‘people want flavor’ as a reason to keep it going.


“So, I get it [Campbell’s decision]. But I also think that an iconic brand like Campbell’s has missed a real leadership opportunity in consumer education. What if instead of delivering a massive dose of sodium to all, they could have added sodium education on the label? ‘Add ¼ tsp salt if you like your soup more salty. The maximum recommended level of sodium intake is 2300 mg per day. 1/4 tsp salt = 500 mg sodium..'

“Taking personal responsibility for your sodium intake is really hard because of our desire for convenience. But everyone can reach for the salt shaker.
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Business/The-uncomfortable-truth-about-Campbell-s-salt-u-turn?nocount

This would be helpful, as it would make the process of avoid low salt foods easier.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:07 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Fool.


There is wisdom in what a fool says. Hawkeye is a complete ******* idiot. Almost everything he posts is contradictory, and he has no idea whatsoever about how the world works. I have never encountered such an arrogant fuckwit in my life.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:15 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
There is wisdom in what a fool says. Hawkeye is a complete ******* idiot. Almost everything he posts is contradictory, and he has no idea whatsoever about how the world works. I have never encountered such an arrogant fuckwit in my life.
You've got the PMS bad this month I see...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:27 pm
So, since you've got zero evidence that the government has forced any corporation to do anything about salt in processed foods, and since even if they had, you can still reach for the salt cellar when you eat any of those processed foods--this thread is just another of your typical, meaningless rants.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

-- Chicken Little
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:29 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Your first step was to provide evidence that the government has forced anyone to do anything with regard to salt in processed foods, which you have failed to do.
I have presented multiple testimonies that the government has applied extensive pressure on producers to lower salt content. You have presented zero evidence to the contrary.

I win.

What I hope happens is that the producers follow in the footsteps of Campbells and disregard the pressure from the government and the fanatics. I dare the government to follow the lead of the UK and try to impose salt content standards. Such an effort will accelerate efforts to forcibly shrink this government which has become monolithic and oppressive.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:33 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

So, since you've got zero evidence that the government has forced any corporation to do anything about salt in processed foods, and since even if they had, you can still reach for the salt cellar when you eat any of those processed foods--this thread is just another of your typical, meaningless rants.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

-- Chicken Little
You are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that a lot of people agree with me, both about the salt issue and that Government needs to be massively shrunk. You look like a fool trying to argue that I am a lone wolf nut when there is so much debate about the subjects that I take up in the societal discourse, and when my opinion is well represented by others in that discourse. Your efforts to rationalize away not dealing with those who disagree with you and not dealing with ideas that you dont want to consider are failing.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
What did you win, Chicken Little? You haven't met the burden of proof. You haven't presented a shred of evidence that the government forced anyone to do anything about salt in processed foods. If, as you acknowledge, Campbells has "resisted the pressure," then your claim to have provided evidence is bullshit. This is a baseless rant.

I love it when you wrap yourself in the flag and trot out your bullshit about oppressive government. Tell us again how you're a radical leftist--that one always cracks me up.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
That a lot of people allegedly agree with you is a mere argumentum ad populum fallacy. So what? That a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. Now you trot out yet another fallacy, the straw man fallacy. I've never said you were a "lone wol nut," i've just pointed out that you just love to portray yourself as the voice crying out in the wilderness. I have no doubt that there a millions of fools as deluded as you. That's not evidence of anything other than how pervasive folly can be.

I'm not "rationalizing" anything. You have presented zero evidence that the government has forced anyone to do anything with regard to salt in processed foods. You continue to ignore that even if that had happended, you can always reach for the salt cellar. You won't even take notice of that one. If i were unwilling to deal with the bullshit you try to peddle, why the hell would i have replied to your bullshit so often? You have got to be one of the most self-deluded jokers i've ever seen.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 09:39 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I'm not "rationalizing" anything. You have presented zero evidence that the government has forced anyone to do anything with regard to salt in processed foods
I have given much evidence that the government is attempting to impose its will on how much salt should be in food sold to consumers, and here is some more

Quote:
Why the current push in the States? The view of the Obama administration’s top public health expert and the solution he proposes may provide an insight into whether the nation’s health care in the future will be based upon opinion or evidence. According to an editorial in a March issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine, the Centers for Disease Control’s director, Dr. Thomas Frieden, says the problem is American’s food. He believes that it is laced with too much salt. Earlier as New York’s health commissioner, Dr. Frieden determined that if New Yorkers could not make the choice to lower salt intake on their own, he would make it for them. Dr. Frieden’s “low salt for all New Yorkers” legacy now threatens all Americans and by extension Canadians. Frieden is employing an approach he championed in New York where his office chose to use “public pressure …and publicity” rather than available science.

Why should we all be concerned? If a high-ranking public health expert cannot get the science surrounding the salt shaker correct, then one can only imagine where a country’s future health-care dollars will be spent, when the science is more complex. Frieden’s assumption underlying his plans first for New York and now the entire nation is simple — too simple! His policy hinges completely on whether reducing salt will lower the blood pressure of the majority of adults and thus reduce their risk of heart disease, heart attacks, and strokes. This linear and simplistic reasoning ignores two critical flaws in the science.

The first relates to the established fact that only a minority of individuals’ blood pressure is sensitive to salt. For the majority, there is no change when salt is reduced and for some their blood pressure will go up. The latter is not a theoretical possibility. The past president of the International Society of Hypertension recently sounded a note of caution in an editorial in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Dr. Michael Alderman, citing data from peer-reviewed articles in the medical literature, documented that it is quite unclear whether reducing sodium intake improves health outcomes, has no effect or causes harm. As opposed to Dr. Frieden’s politically correct stance in his Annals editorial, which ignored this published evidence, Alderman called for “definitive data” and the rule of science over politics in setting national health-care policy, i.e. “rigorous, large-scale population-based randomized clinical trials.”

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/14/junk-science-week-salt-scare-lacks-solid-evidence/
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:11 am
@hawkeye10,
So what? Government can attempt what they please--such as cooperation between the Republicans and Democrats, and other farces.

You can dance all you want, but two things are undeniable. Those are that you haven't provided any evidence that the government had forced anyone to do anything about salt in processed food; and that you can always reach for the salt cellar if you want more salt in your food. You continue to sedulously avoid discussing that last point because it makes a mockery of your Chicken Little claim about freedom.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:27 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
and that you can always reach for the salt cellar if you want more salt in your food. You continue to sedulously avoid discussing that last point because it makes a mockery of your Chicken Little claim about freedom


I answered in already, I simply assumed that you are capable of following along. I am so sorry for over estimating your abilities.

1) you can not always fix under seasoned food at the end of the process

2) being able to fix the error does not negate the error, fixing food that has not properly been prepared is work, and is work that I should not have to do. I should be able to find products that taste good when I buy it and when it is brought to my table

3) The fact that I can do a work around of sorts does not excuse my government from telling lies and pressuring those whom I do business with to not offer me the products that I want to buy unless the government can prove unreasonable danger. In the case of salt the government can not prove its case, it has no case.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:57 am
@hawkeye10,
Whether or not a food is "fixed" is a subjective judgment, which is why i ignored that tripe previously. Whether or not food has been "properly prepared" is also a subjective judgment, which is why i ignored that tripe previously. Furthermore, these are statements from authority on your part, an authority which i have no reason to assume you possess. The fact remains that you can add salt to your food if you don't think it has enough salt, and another fact is glaring--if you don't like the taste of a product, buy somebody else's product.

It is not established that people in government told "lies" or acted in bad faith. It is not established that anyone needs to be excused. The very fact that you've got this thread is evidence that: one, the pressure you allege doesn't work; two, you can buy the product you want with all your fictious effects from salt prior to you opening the can; and finally, that you are desparate to portray yourself as the noble crusader for freedom when no freedom of yours is being threatened.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:14 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
It is not established that people in government told "lies" or acted in bad faith. It is not established that anyone needs to be excused. The very fact that you've got this thread is evidence that: one, the pressure you allege doesn't work; two, you can buy the product you want with all your fictious effects from salt prior to you opening the can; and finally, that you are desparate to portray yourself as the noble crusader for freedom when no freedom of yours is being threatened.
I suggest you get in the queue to see the doc, as senility seems to have set in....otherwise you would remember all those places in history where a suggestion made by the governing force did not mean to give the false implication that there was any choice in the matter.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:20 am
@Setanta,
I lookede in our pantry and the Campbells soups we had were all the "Healhy Choice" (I suppose this is supposed to be in contrast to what they previously made which was presumably and UNHEALTHY CHOICE).
Anyway, campbells Chicken Gumbo (my all time fav Campbells soup had over 500 mg sodium, (only about 1/3 of which is from salt, the others are the emulsifiers and other sodium surfactant **** that they all add)
500 mg of Sodium aint exactly "low salt". I think thats as much sodium as a Big MAc.

When it was "unhealthy Choice" the sodium content was bout 750 mg per serving. Unless I was a smoker whose taste buds were all fucked up, I wouldnt need anywhere near that amount of salt so I could taste my food.

Any can of "Cream of..." (mushroom, pea, celery, wood chunks, sneakers , etc) contains so much sodium polyphosphate (detergent) as emulsifiers , Im sure these soups are really high in sodium

Progresso Soups taste a lot better and even Shrimp Ramen noodle packs are better than most CAmpbells "Cup a salt"
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:32 am
@hawkeye10,
I suggest you get in line to have your head examined. First, because your opening article shows that Campbells has bowed to no pressure, and has returned to their original recipe. Second, because you're alleging subtleties of flavor which apply to haute cuisine and not to crap condensed soup made in giant vats in a factory setting. Basically, you're holding up a sow's ear and trying to tell the world it's a silk purse. Finally, because this is all in aid of your favorite "denial of freedom" screed, when your freedom to eat high-salt, crap food is not infringed in the least.

Don't try to tell me about history, little man, i know it far better than you do, and one of the things it tells me is that Americans, especially corporate entities in America, have a long and noble tradition of ignoring the government, even when it comes to the law, never mind "suggestions."
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:35 am
@hawkeye10,
I think you lost the argument when you suggested that Campbell's soup was something people might want to ingest. I don't agree with your liberal gun laws, but if you want to shoot a gun at something, a tin of Campbell's would be a good choice.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:43 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Any can of "Cream of..." (mushroom, pea, celery, wood chunks, sneakers , etc) contains so much sodium polyphosphate (detergent) as emulsifiers , Im sure these soups are really high in sodium
Cream of chicken is 870

Chunky clam chowder is 889, I actually like this one with some Mrs. Dash and black pepper.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-soup000000000000000000000-3.html?&freetext=soup
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:55 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Cream of chicken is 870

Chunky clam chowder is 889
Thats well over a teaspoon full. Thats more than your reccomended daily dose of sodium.AS I said, most of the **** in the creamy soups aint cream, its a sludge made mostly of soap scum and detergents that keep all the other crap in solution so it doesnt all clot up in your bowl.
That sound appetizing enough for you?

Recall how a Cream of mushroom comes out of the can? Its like a big white turd. To which you must add water and get it to break up into a "Creme". The emulsifiers are the magic of chemistry that help the turd to turn into soup.

In drilling, when we have a clot of clay at depth , we too use what we call "turd busters" which are essentially the same crap they put into Campbells Cream of Mushroom.

 

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