26
   

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

 
 
JPB
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Put your head in the line of a bullet for representing her constituency like she did and we'll talk.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:25 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Put your head in the line of a bullet for representing her constituency like she did and we'll talk.
Does not change the fact that she can not do the job, and there is no expectation that she will ever be able to do the job. Her empathy and concern for the rest of us should have prompted her to get out of the way so that her constituents can have representation in the house. Ideally she would now be forced out after failing to do the right thing but I have read that there is little hope that the Supremes would go along with that.
High Seas
 
  5  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
If her own constituents aren't complaining, or calling for a temporary replacement appointee, or for a by-election, what business is it of yours?!

Sad commentary on our general fiscal crisis from down under (Brisbane, AU): http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/the-magic-credit-card-brings-us-to-its-knees-20110801-1i81r.html
http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2011/08/01/2529864/art-353-0211-mucci-200x0.jpg

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:36 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
If her own constituents aren't complaining, or calling for a temporary replacement appointee, or for a by-election, what business is it of yours?!
Congress decides when the representation of a district no longer functions, not the state and not the constituents.....according to my understanding of the law, which makes it my business.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 08:09 pm
@High Seas,
The writer of that article knows of what he speaks, starting with GW Bush's addition to the national debt (doubling), and how much his two wars have cost this country in military manpower and treasure, and how all of that came about.

Wonder of wonders, now the GOP-tea party wants to blame Obama for the "growing debt."

Even Bachmann said recently that increasing the debt ceiling was giving Obama a "blank check."

I guess it doesn't matter when conservatives fight battles in congress to shift the blame for their careless spending onto a president who took over as the Great Recession took hold of our economy, and through his stim bill was able to reverse the increasing numbers of the unemployed. Not much any president can't do after taking over from the devastation of the housing bubble and fraud perpetrated by the finance companies and banks with their derivatives. That one will take at least a decade or more to reverse.

But we all know conservatives are impatient, and want Obama to solve all our problems in three years.

0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 10:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Ideally she would now be forced out after failing to do the right thing but I have read that there is little hope that the Supremes would go along with that.

The supreme court can prevent the House from expelling one of its own members? Really? Are you sure about that?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 02:46 am
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
The supreme court can prevent the House from expelling one of its own members? Really? Are you sure about that?
Absolutely, the question is would they? I think they would, as they would be in effect expelling her, which under Article I, Section 5 can only be done in cases of miss behavior so the Supremes would suspend their normal reluctance to insert themselves into the affairs of the chamber given the gravity of the Constitutional violation. .
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 02:56 am
@hawkeye10,
I can't make it read that way.

Quote:
Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.

Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.

Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.

Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 02:57 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Democrats were despondent about the deal, which split their caucus precisely down the middle as it easily cleared the House on Monday night. Liberals complained that the White House had, for the third time in eight months, squandered its leverage, capitulated to the opposition and presented Democrats with a done deal that they had no choice but to accept.

“It’s a Trojan Horse with Scylla and Charybdis inside!” Rep. Steve Cohen, a Tennessee Democrat, said as he walked out of Vice President Biden’s presentation to the House Democratic caucus. “It’s evil, or more evil.”

Progressives knew they couldn’t block the big spending cuts the president agreed to, because they weren’t willing to throw the government into default. That left liberals, Cohen said, to pursue two activities: “venting and kvetching.”

They did both with gusto on Monday. “It’s robbing Peter and Paul,” protested Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.), going on about “terminal bleeding” of government programs.

“I don’t think it’s fair!” thundered Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.).

And what did D.C. Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton think? “I don’t think,” she replied. “I cry.”

In his private sessions with House and Senate Democrats, Biden reportedly likened dealing with the Republicans to negotiating with terrorists and said GOP leaders had “put guns to their heads.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/despondent-over-debt-deal/2011/08/01/gIQAyReNoI_story.html?hpid=z3

as much as I generally agree with this line of reasoning a part of me questions how irresponsible the REPUBS were, as we all know that going toe to toe with the DEMS will result in the DEMS backing down 98% of the time, to include after Obama says " dont call my bluff". The line between terrorism and good old fashioned hard nosed use of power seems to have gotten fuzzy.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 03:18 am
@hawkeye10,
Said by me 30 hours ago

Quote:
I am thinking back to around the time of the Wisconsin fight where teachers were deeply demoralized to be forced to face how lowly they are held in esteem by the citizens, when a huge chunk of the citizens said directly that they think teachers are over paid. I think that Liberals are about to feel that same kick to the gut, when they can no longer ignore how despised government is by a lot of the citizens. Liberals can no longer rationalize away and ignore claims that government is too big and has too much power because in a democracy numbers count, liberals can piss and moan about those who dont agree with them, but they cant ignore them any longer. The liberals continually losing political battles will at some point be a wake up call.

http://able2know.org/topic/173915-55#post-4685549

Are we there yet?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 03:33 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
When it comes to Murphy's Law—the idea that anything that can go wrong, will—we Irish have our corollary: Murphy was an optimist.

Even from this sunny perspective, it's hard to look at the debt-ceiling compromise and see it as anything but a conservative victory. It's not just that Speaker of the House John Boehner succeeded in imposing some conditions in exchange for an increase in the debt ceiling. It's that the deal has Democrats, including the president, essentially signing on to the Republican framework for defining the Beltway's budget problem: spending that is too high rather than taxes that are too low.

For the moment, the press focus remains on the intra-conservative spat between Republicans who favor Mr. Boehner's deal and tea partiers who largely oppose it. These disagreements will fade, however. And come the 2012 elections this deal will help force the debate that all conservatives have wanted all along—about the size, scope, and proper mission of our federal government

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903520204576482441462317576.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

As well as some libertarian leftists, we who have come to the conclusion that the abuse of the citizens at the hands of the state must be put down by force.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 08:11 am


Huge win for Obama.

The republicans and the American people got played.

Obamageddon is just around the corner now and there is nothing standing up to stop it.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 08:21 am
@H2O MAN,
How many times do you use the word Obama to form a new word? Obamageddon is a new one, but you've used Obamacare before. Will you be publishing a definitive list soon?
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 08:37 am
@izzythepush,
Perhaps wisely, you don't seem to read much of our local news - Obamacare is the standard term for some absurdly expensive and ineffective legislation.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 08:39 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Huge win for Obama.

The republicans and the American people got played.

It's obvious to anybody who knew his agenda from the beginning of this manufactured "crisis" - at any cost, postpone a new debt ceiling vote till 2013.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 09:00 am
I don't see how in the world this a huge win for Obama, democrats got nothing out of this except keeping the country from defaulting.

Quote:
Although all sides conceded some ground to secure a deal, the final bill represented a triumph for the Tea Party camp in the Republican Party, which dug in its heels against any tax hikes and pushed for spending cuts.

Many congressional Democrats were dismayed that Obama and their party leadership did not do more to include some tax increases and provide more protection for social programs.


source

Personally I don't see what else Obama could have done given the political times we are in.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 09:09 am
@revelette,
You've fallen for the fraudulent Obama line, evidently. Go back on this thread and see how many times I've shown that "default" was never a possibility on the alleged deadline of August 2nd, and that all - all - Obama ever wanted to get out of this charade was postponment of another debt ceiling vote beyond election year 2012! How can you not understand these 2 simple statements?
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 09:28 am
@High Seas,
There is difference between not understanding and simply not agreeing with you.
High Seas
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 09:30 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

....Obamageddon is just around the corner now and there is nothing standing up to stop it.

It's worse even than it looks - economics isn't called "the dismal science" for nothing - because we're edging ever closer to numbers last seen in the 1930s
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20110730_WOC311.gif
Quote:
Jul 29th 2011, 12:37 by The Economist online

How the recovery in the United States compares with previous ones

THE great recession hit America even harder than previously thought. The GDP data released today by the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) show that output rose by an annualised 1.3% over the second quarter of 2011, worse than had been expected. But the department's annual revisions to previous figures contained still worse news. Annual GDP growth for 2008 and 2009 was revised down by 0.3 and 0.9 percentage points; the 2010 figure was revised up, but not by enough to compensate. The release means that output in America is still at a lower level than its peak before the recession, a point earlier numbers said had been passed at the end of last year. When compared to the three other slowest post-war recoveries, the current “jobless recovery” has been thought unique in its lack of employment growth. After previous recessions an acceleration in output had helped the employment recover to its initial level. The BEA's new figures show that with output having grown less than previously thought, America's jobless may have longer to wait for a similar boost
.


Stopping the debt burden from getting worse - which this pathetic bill will definitely not accomplish - was just about the last play; it failed. The trillion-dollar "stimulus" and the trillion-and-a-half "QE1, QE2", have failed as well. Is a hail Mary pass still possible? If I think of one, I'll come back and post Smile
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 09:34 am
@revelette,
There is a difference between a demonstrable fact and a baseless opinion - since you're unaware of it, there's no more to be said on the subject. Goodbye.
0 Replies
 
 

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