26
   

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 03:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You must no read my posts;

Not all of them, I admit. Mea culpa.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 03:53 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

uh? uh? uh?

What's this? Have the boys on the bus started to break ranks?


Loose lips sink ships!!!

Quote:
jbendery profile

jbendery NEWS! Rep. DeFazio says Biden told House Dems, if all else had failed, Obama was willing to invoke the 14th Amendment. #debt



errrr... or derail buses, or something like that.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:02 pm
@JPB,
Any flat tires?
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This should fly in the Senate but I not so sure about the House.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:15 pm
@realjohnboy,
It'll fly in the House if the boys on the bus shut their traps. Unless...





the ride isn't over yet.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:20 pm
Cantor announced that the House would adjourn after the debt ceiling/deficit debate vote is taken (I refuse to separate them at this point). Someone reminded him that the FAA folks are working gratis for now.

Stay tuned.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:49 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
HouseInSession Billy House
Who'll be leavin' on a jet plane once the debt ceiling vote is held tonight? And what will the FAA say about that?
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:56 pm
@JPB,
Final vote in the House is underway.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 05:06 pm
@realjohnboy,
And approved.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 05:07 pm
@realjohnboy,
Passed in the HOuse.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 05:07 pm
@JPB,
FAA folks on the job are getting paid - but not the 4,000 who got laid off on July 22nd, when funding ran out. Their contractors are on stop-work order.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 05:24 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:
....The business community and banks are sitting on billions in cash, supposedly waiting for confidence before expanding into growth areas. Let's see them do just that. If they don't then the Republican concept of free markets has fallen on it's face. If they do then revenues will increase on their own through a well-employed workforce. We have between now and Nov 2012 to see how the business/banking communities react. They aren't sitting on the sidelines because of government anchors around their necks. They have been given all sorts of bailouts and incentives to grow and expand the economy and they've chosen to do just the opposite. Now is the time to see what steps they take to do their part to pull us back from the brink....

The banks aren't likely to launch a lending spree any time soon - the burst of the asset bubble(s) in 2008 left them dangerously undercapitalized. The nominal bailout funds have been repaid, but the really toxic paper was moved over to the Fed and the Fannie/Freddie duo - it's still there. Read this:
Quote:
Suppose a household buys a house worth $200,000. The household puts down $20,000 and borrows $180,000 from a bank through a nonrecourse mortgage—meaning that in the event of default, the bank has access only to the collateral: the house itself. The bank is a big one—it has $2 trillion worth of assets, $1 trillion of those assets consisting of mortgages (either through direct ownership or through ownership of mortgage-backed securities). The bank has $200 billion worth of outstanding equity—so its debt-to-equity ratio is 9-to-1. Here, I should be clear that my value references are all market-determined values.

Now, suppose that land prices fall, and so houses around the United States fall suddenly and permanently in value by 30 percent. For the house in my example, that means its value has fallen from $200,000 down to $140,000. The household is now significantly underwater because it owes $180,000 on a house worth $140,000. If the household loses its sources of income—as might well be true if houses around the country are worth 30 percent less—then it will have no choice but to default on the loan (through a short sale or a foreclosure). Even if the household keeps its sources of income, it’s now in a position where so-called strategic default on a nonrecourse mortgage is financially rewarding. The bottom line is that this mortgage once worth $180,000 is now worth much less, perhaps no more than $140,000. In other words, the 30 percent fall in the value of the underlying asset has led to as much as a 22 percent fall in the value of the mortgage itself.

This has severe implications for the bank, of course. Recall that $1 trillion of the bank’s assets took the form of these kinds of mortgages. Given the possible 22 percent drop on its mortgage values, the bank’s assets have fallen by as much as $220 billion, depending on the default choices of households. Its equity, originally worth $200 billion, will fall greatly in value—possibly to zero
.

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/news_events/pres/speech_display.cfm?id=4692
Btw, the "strategic default" mentioned in the above excerpt is perfectly contractually correct, but that doesn't carry over to the federal debt!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 05:48 pm
@High Seas,
The second quote about dropping home values and strategic default is a good option for homeowners when banks have been charging ridiculous interest on credit cards and loans while the real interest rates for them have been dropping. What's good for the goose...
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Credit cards are great business for banks - borrow from the Fed at close to zero, charge the customers 16 to 20%. But there's no strategic default on unsecured debt - unlike collateralized nonrecourse loans, e.g. mortgages; if you don't pay what you owe on credit cards it probably means bankruptcy.

Btw, the only winner from this debt ceiling charade is Obama, who postponed the "compulsory cuts" to January 2013 - after the election. Those "cuts" btw will exclude all - all - the deficit drivers, starting with Medicaid, so they're worse than useless.The economy is so weak now, and unemployment so high, that the wheels may come off JPB's bus before then.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The vote ended up at 269-161 in favor. 174 Repubs and 95 Dems voted Yes while 66 Repubs and 95 Dems voted No.
I - a liberal Dem - am not happy at the outcome because it contains no tax increases on the richest while potentially cutting help for the poorest, creating a wider divide which I see as dangerous.
In addition, spending cuts in this economy could well send us back into a recession. I acknowledge that government spending is not as effective as private sector spending but there is little private sector investment going on. I am alarmed at the recent increase again in wholesale down sizing going on at numerous big companies. I thought we were done with that.
Finally, Rasmussen has a poll of people who approve (44%) vs disapprove (56%) of Obama. That is the section of the poll that is similar to Gallup, etc. But he also includes strongly approve (23%) vs strongly disapprove (43%). It will be interesting to watch the "strongly" numbers over the next 3 days.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:59 pm
@realjohnboy,
To repeat myself, it would be so nice if the polls could split the "disapproves" into "should be more compromising" and "should be less compromising".
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:02 pm
@realjohnboy,
What a perfect day for Gabby Giffords to return to the House.
realjohnboy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:04 pm
@JPB,
It was, although - not unexpectedly - she looked quite frail.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:16 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

What a perfect day for Gabby Giffords to return to the House.
A timely illustration of the fact that this district has gone unrepresented for so long, and will continue to do so with few people calling for an end to this abuse. We have allowed sympathy for one person to derail the democratic process for 640,000 people, we in American now routinely fail to keep our eye on the ball.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 07:20 pm
@realjohnboy,
Indeed.
0 Replies
 
 

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