26
   

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 07:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is probably good news, and the stock markets should begin a recovery on Monday.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 08:09 pm
@firefly,
This deal is worse than no deal at all. Obama should have taken the 14th-Amendment option, ignored the debt limit, and spend the money that Congress had already authorized him to spend.

Now we're looking at a double-dip recession.
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 08:24 pm
@Thomas,
I agree, Thomas.
If this deal happens, all sides are unhappy politically about the outcome. I guess that is what compromise is all about.
But once they wipe away the bit of blood and snot from their noses after this, the truth remains. Our economy is in trouble.
They don't seem to want to realize that.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 08:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

This is probably good news, and the stock markets should begin a recovery on Monday.

Considering they have to write the bill and pass it yet, I don't know.

We have seen several claims of having reached a deal that have collapsed when it came time to count the votes.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 08:38 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

This deal is worse than no deal at all. Obama should have taken the 14th-Amendment option, ignored the debt limit, and spend the money that Congress had already authorized him to spend.

Now we're looking at a double-dip recession.
Sounds like you have been reading the Progressive Causus talking points...

Progressive Co-Chair Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva
Quote:
Washington, D.C.– Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva, co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, today released the following statement on the emerging debt deal:

“This deal trades peoples’ livelihoods for the votes of a few unappeasable right-wing radicals, and I will not support it. Progressives have been organizing for months to oppose any scheme that cuts Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security, and it now seems clear that even these bedrock pillars of the American success story are on the chopping block. Even if this deal were not as bad as it is, this would be enough for me to fight against its passage.

This deal does not even attempt to strike a balance between more cuts for the working people of America and a fairer contribution from millionaires and corporations. The very wealthy will continue to receive taxpayer handouts, and corporations will keep their expensive federal giveaways. Meanwhile, millions of families unfairly lose more in this deal than they have already lost. I will not be a part of it.

Republicans have succeeded in imposing their vision of a country without real economic hope. Their message has no public appeal, and Democrats have had every opportunity to stand firm in the face of their irrational demands. Progressives have been rallying support for the successful government programs that have meant health and economic security to generations of our people. Today we, and everyone we have worked to speak for and fight for, were thrown under the bus. We have made our bottom line clear for months: a final deal must strike a balance between cuts and revenue, and must not put all the burden on the working people of this country. This deal fails those tests and many more.

The Democratic Party, no less than the Republican Party, is at a very serious crossroads at this moment. For decades Democrats have stood for a capable, meaningful government – a government that works for the people, not just the powerful, and that represents everyone fairly and equally. This deal weakens the Democratic Party as badly as it weakens the country. We have given much and received nothing in return. The lesson today is that Republicans can hold their breath long enough to get what they want. While I believe the country will not reward them for this in the long run, the damage has already been done.

A clean debt ceiling vote was the obvious way out of this, and many House Democrats have been saying so. Had that vote failed, the president should have exercised his Fourteenth Amendment responsibilities and ended this manufactured crisis.

This deal is a cure as bad as the disease. I reject it, and the American people reject it. The only thing left to do now is repair the damage as soon as possible.”

http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=13&sectiontree=5,13&itemid=1063
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 08:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not so sure that the American people rejects it. We won't know until the next election, because many Americans have voiced support for more cuts in government spending.

It doesn't matter that many of us including many government spokespeople around the world finds the tea party demands as unreasonable, and bad for all economies.

The tea party put the world economy on a precipice of a prolonged second recession, and added the extra cost to everybody that keeps most economies barely able to sustain itself.

That none of them understands economics or politics is our achilles heel. We the people voted them into office.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I'm not so sure that the American people rejects it. We won't know until the next election, because many Americans have voiced support for more cuts in government spending
I am thinking back to around the time of the Wisconsin fight where teachers were deeply demoralized to be forced to face how lowly they are held in esteem by the citizens, when a huge chunk of the citizens said directly that they think teachers are over paid. I think that Liberals are about to feel that same kick to the gut, when they can no longer ignore how despised government is by a lot of the citizens. Liberals can no longer rationalize away and ignore claims that government is too big and has too much power because in a democracy numbers count, liberals can piss and moan about those who dont agree with them, but they cant ignore them any longer. The liberals continually losing political battles will at some point be a wake up call.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not ready to blame everything on the liberals; GW Bush increased the debt by almost $5 trillion - which is essentially doubling of the debt after he took over from Clinton.

Most of the current expenses are carry-overs from past administrations and congress; they were a combination of both parties.

Most of Obama's spending was the stim bill which cost about $800 billion, but most of that was spent on tax cuts for the middle class, and for extended unemployment benefits who have lost jobs. I support the general policy, but not the way Obama implemented it. The bailout of GMC and Chrysler were good decisions even though I was against it when it was done, because I felt it unfair for the feds to save auto jobs and not others. It turns out by saving GMC and Chyrsler, about one millions jobs were saved.

Beyond that, I find the current crisis a creation by the tea party; all they had to do was approve the increase in the debt ceiling to pay on-going expenses. Rather, they created a world-wide crisis. Cutting cost can be done through regular legislative processes. Besides that, I don't agree with cost cutting at a time when jobs are in short supply, and we are in a hard battle to recover from the Great Recession.

The government can create tens of thousands of jobs by spending on our infrastructure and education. Those are necessary expenditures if our country is to remain competitive in the world marketplace.

Austerity programs will provide our country with a slow death. Something the tea party members do not understand or appreciate.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
The fundraising number for the potential GOP candidates for 2012 tell quite a different story, hawk. Many corporate sponsors have already tapped out their max donations to people like Romney, and Obama without really doing much fund raising has more in private citizen donations in small amounts than the money leaders in the GOP. People speak pretty loud with their checkbook, but you're fixed on some other fictional narrative about the public sentiment. What group has the lowest public approval?

Congressional Republicans.

A
R
T
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:29 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
The fundraising number for the potential GOP candidates for 2012 tell quite a different story, hawk
I have noticed that, but we must keep in mind that the dems have in mind a very expensive campaign strategy so they have hit the bricks early. It is too early to say if the dems raising a lot more money to this point means anything. The Dems are trying to claim that it does, but of course they would say that.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:31 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
What group has the lowest public approval?

Congressional Republicans.
Congress over all is at the bottom of the barrel....having a D at the end of your name does not help much in the grand scheme of things. The debt battle will not help matters for either D's or R's either.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not aware of past history on campaign fundraising, but the republicans and congress has low scores going into the next elections. Much, much, lower than Obama's score - even as his dropped a few points during the past several days.

I believe most seniors - both liberals and conservatives - are going to be very angry at the tea party members for threatening their benefits. There may be a few who continue to say cost must be cut, but as the old saying goes, NIMBY.

We'll just have to wait and see, but I see the liberals gaining strength through this fiasco.

Recent polls on Obama and congress.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 09:42 pm
@parados,
parados, I'm going by what happened in the Asian markets today; they went up!

This may be a see-saw moment - again.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Much, much, lower than Obama's score - even as his dropped a few points during the past several days.
with Obama it is "what is the option?"....the dems are not going to challenge him and the GOP refuses to run anyone good against him. We have Romney who we already made clear we dont trust; we have in Perry a cowboy from Texas...been there, done that, and it did not work out too good so tyvm but no; we have a congress critter from MN ....and we have just talked about what we think of Congress.

The GOP learned nothing from the experience of putting up McCain, a weak choice who then went on to run a terrible campaign and lose.


Quote:
but I see the liberals gaining strength through this fiasco.
then you are delusional. Obama is already dismissing the liberals, he knows liberals dont have anywhere else to go, so he is already working for the middle. Unless Liberals have a change of heart and decide to challenge Obama, which they will not do, liberals no longer have much of a say in the direction that America takes. As the Progressive Caucus points out, they have already been thrown under the bus by Obama and the Congressional Democratic leadership.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
If I'm the one who's delusional, why is it that congress' approval rating is 19% and Obama over 40%?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If I'm the one who's delusional, why is it that congress' approval rating is 19%
How much better was it when that Liberal whack job Pelosi was running the house? Congress gets low approval because it no longer works, who sits in the chairs makes not a damn bit of difference.. The problem is the institution not the charactors.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:42 pm
Responses from the GOP candidates are coming in, and M Bachmann rhetoric shows she doesn't have a clue concerning US government debts.

And, she's running for president.

Quote:
The Caucus - The Politics and Government blog of The New York Times
July 31, 2011, 10:16 pm
2012 G.O.P. Candidates React to Debt Deal
By MICHAEL D. SHEAR

The Republican candidates for president have begun weighing in on the debt deal reached in Washington.

In the moments immediately after the deal was announced by legislative leaders and President Obama, the sound from the campaign trail was largely one of crickets.

But now, the reaction is arriving.

Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota responded quickly with a statement condemning the deal.

“Mr. President, I’m not sure what voice you’re listening to, but I can assure you that the voice of the American people wasn't the ‘voice that compelled Washington to act.’ It was you that got us into this mess, and it was you who wanted a $2.4 trillion dollar blank check to get you through the election,” she said in a statement distributed by her campaign.

Mrs. Bachmann had repeatedly said she will not vote to increase the nation’s debt limit under any circumstance, and she repeated that in her statement.

“The ‘deal’ he announced spends too much and doesn't cut enough,” she said. “This isn't the deal the American people ‘preferred’ either, Mr. President. Someone has to say no. I will.”


A "blank check" to pay existing commitments? It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
If I'm the one who's delusional, why is it that congress' approval rating is 19%
How much better was it when that Liberal whack job Pelosi was running the house? Congress gets low approval because it no longer works, who sits in the chairs makes not a damn bit of difference.. The problem is the institution not the charactors.

You keep dodging that congressional republicans are the least popular of all politicians. Your dismissal is because it defies your narrative. That you call Pelosi a whack job is of little consequence. If you can't read the public sentiment, then your assessment of her is most likely just as off.

A
R
T
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
A "blank check" to pay existing commitments? It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
There is no one that I am aware of who believes that America can afford to pay all that it has promised, so America is going to renege on its promises...the questions are who gets the shaft, how badly, and when when will we decide??? There is no cause for talking trash about those who say that we should decide now and go no further into debt, as this is one of the options that we have available, and there is no reason that has been brought into the conversation yet that proves that this is the wrong way to go.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 11:00 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
You keep dodging that congressional republicans are the least popular of all politicians
Where is your documentation for this assertion, because it looks to me that the GOP is in better shape than they have been since 2005..

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/1zm2ceh-u-sglnff6olmw.gif
 

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