26
   

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:17 am
@Thomas,
I do see what you're saying, but I disagree.

I think the disagreement has more to do with how government actually works. What that means is that if a policy is correct but doomed -- if there is NO WAY to make it happen -- then getting something imperfect accomplished is much better than getting nothing accomplished. See my new sig line, for example, from this post by Jonathan Rauch:

Quote:
Democrats want tax increases, Republicans want Medicare cuts. The two sides can trade hostages, neutralizing their best attack ads in exchange for a big whack at the deficit. Or they can shoot their hostages, hammer each other in 2012 for raising taxes and killing grandma, and risk spiralling debt. They're doing the latter. The risk is that the 2012 campaign will put Medicare off limits for years. Call your office, Sen. Dole.

I think blame rests primarily with the Republican side, because I think that a critical mass of congressional Democrats would have squawked and squirmed but would, in the end, have voted for a grand bargain—whereas Tea Partyized Republicans just would not. But let's not kid ourselves: what we're seeing here is a result of the systematic underrepresentation of moderates in both parties, because moderates are the constituency for a hostage trade: they would rather solve the problem than stay pure and score political points. If you want bold solutions, vote for the least radical candidate in your party's congressional primary next year.


(That was a largish excerpt, whole thing here.)


Letting the country go into default is a severe enough problem that I'm willing to see concessions made to avoid that eventuality. The point is not that I like the concessions, but that concessions must be made to get important things accomplished.

So -- the role I'm playing is as both a Democratic pundit, and a concerned citizen who would like to see as many right policies implemented as can possibly be implemented. I'm realistic about the processes involved thereof.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:22 am


Obama is trying to use this fake crisis to raise taxes... this arrogant hack needs to go.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:26 am
@H2O MAN,
Shows how little you really understand spurt.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:34 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



Obama is trying to use this fake crisis to raise taxes... this arrogant hack needs to go.

A fake crisis?
That's funny because it is the Tea Party that is creating the crisis.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:36 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:



Obama is trying to use this fake crisis to raise taxes... this arrogant hack needs to go.

A fake crisis?
That's funny because it is the Tea Party that is creating the crisis.


Verily. If it's a 'fake' crisis, why, just pass a clean debt ceiling, and watch the whole thing go away. Just like all the other time Republicans in Congress did that.

Arguing with the waterboy, though, guys? You literally couldn't get any dumber than this syphilitic ass-clown. There's no sport in it.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:40 am
@Cycloptichorn,


Props to Cyclo for recognizing Obama for the ass-clown he is.

Barry 'he's kind of a dick' Obama is nothing more than a liberal hack
that has no love for this constitutional republic and he needs to go.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:41 am
Just got done watching Obama's press conference; I think he laid the problems out well.

It's becoming increasingly more clear that some version of the McConnell plan will be what we end up with -

Quote:
Boehner: No Debt Limit Solution Til After Vote On Balanced Budget Amendment
Brian Beutler | July 15, 2011, 11:03AM

Whatever the ultimate outcome of the debt limit fight, the theatrics will continue in the House of Representatives for another week or so.

Scores of House Republicans say they won't vote to raise the debt limit unless a Constitutional balanced budget amendment has been sent off to the states for ratification. And so whatever Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and other Congressional leaders decide about the real path ahead, he'll hold votes next week on major spending cuts, a spending cap, and, separately, a balanced budget amendment. The latter would require a two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate and, in its current form, stands little chance of passing either chamber.

At a Friday press conference after a meeting with the GOP caucus, Boehner let slip, subtly, that the plan will go nowhere.

"The cut cap and balance plan that the House will vote on next week is a solid plan for moving forward," he said. "Let's get through that vote and then we'll make decisions about what will come after."

This effort is running parallel to the one leaders of both parties are putting together on the Senate side, in conjunction with the White House. That's where the real solution lies. Boehner's offer is a consolation prize, of sorts, for House conservatives, whom GOP leaders feel they must appease.

Hearing Boehner talk about it, you might think they had all the time in the world for symbolic votes.

"Senator McConnell pointed out that his plan is being put on the table as a last-ditch effort," he said. "We're far from the time for a last ditch effort."


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/boehner-no-debt-limit-solution-til-after-vote-on-balanced-budget-amendment.php?ref=fpblg

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:44 am


Obamageddon drags on... tick, tick, tick.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:51 am




If this pathetic liberal hack was really serious, he would be all-in on
all sorts of plans to cut spending big time and cut spending right now.

PrezBO has no practical understanding of economics, we (The USA) is running out of time playing with this hack.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:55 am
@H2O MAN,
That must be why Obama proposed 4 trillion in cuts and the GOP refused to even give him 2.4 trillion.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 10:08 am
@parados,
LOL!

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid
parados
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 10:13 am
@H2O MAN,
Facts don't need Kool-Aid..

You need it to deny facts spurt.

Or are you calling Fox News liars?
http://www.foxbusiness.com/2011/04/13/obama-plan-cuts-deficit-4-trillion/
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 10:22 am
MN governor Mark Dayton on the deal he had to just make to stop the state gov't shutdown: "Ignorance and arrogance are a very dangerous combination. Makes a democracy difficult to function."
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 10:23 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

"Ignorance and arrogance are a very dangerous combination."


Describes PrezBO to a T
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 10:32 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
I think the disagreement has more to do with how government actually works. What that means is that if a policy is correct but doomed -- if there is NO WAY to make it happen -- then getting something imperfect accomplished is much better than getting nothing accomplished.

The only way to find out if there's no way to make a policy happen is to demand it, fight for it, and lose. Maybe there was no way to make an adequate stimulus program happen, but we don't know that because Obama never asked for one. Maybe anything more liberal than Obama's 20:80 solution is doomed given the current impasse. But Obama never asked for a raise in the debt ceiling the last time the Republicans blackmailed him to extend the Bush tax cuts. Instead, there's a quote of him out there to the tune that asking wasn't necessary; that he trusted the Republican leadership to do the responsible thing when the time comes. Fool me once. . . .
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 01:50 pm
@sozobe,
The deal made in MN to end the shutdown was bad, Soz. But not unexpected.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 02:01 pm
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/boehner-no-debt-limit-solution-til-after-vote-on-balanced-budget-amendment.php

Boehner: No Debt Limit Solution Til After Vote On Balanced Budget Amendment

Scores of House Republicans say they won't vote to raise the debt limit unless a Constitutional balanced budget amendment has been sent off to the states for ratification. And so whatever Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and other Congressional leaders decide about the real path ahead, he'll hold votes next week on a major spending cut and spending cap plan that includes a hike in the debt ceiling, and, separately, on a balanced budget amendment. The latter would require a two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate and, in its current form, stands little chance of passing either chamber.

The votes themselves will put some political pressure on Democrats to support the nominally popular balanced budget amendment, and will allow Republicans to claim they voted to raise the debt limit in the event that the government runs out of borrowing authority. But the so-called "cut, cap, and balance" approach is dead on arrival in the Senate.

At a Friday press conference after a meeting with the GOP caucus, Boehner let slip, subtly, that the plan will go nowhere.

"The cut cap and balance plan that the House will vote on next week is a solid plan for moving forward," he said. "Let's get through that vote and then we'll make decisions about what will come after."

This effort is running parallel to the one leaders of both parties are putting together on the Senate side, in conjunction with the White House. That's where the real solution lies. Boehner's offer is a consolation prize, of sorts, for House conservatives, whom GOP leaders feel they must appease.

Hearing Boehner talk about it, you might think they had all the time in the world for symbolic votes.

"Senator McConnell pointed out that his plan is being put on the table as a last-ditch effort," he said. "We're far from the time for a last ditch effort."
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 02:12 pm
This thread has been tagged "1 Term". I guess that would be true for new tea party congressmen if the public blames them for inability to compromise.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 02:15 pm


What's the problem?

The problem is that more than 80% of the American people think Obama is lying to them again.

The problem is that PrezBO is only interested in avoiding getting blamed for any problems or mistakes.

The problem is that Barry Obama is not motivated to or interested in improving America's economy.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 02:16 pm
@wandeljw,


I'm sure the tag "1 Term" is all about making Obama a one term mistake and moving forward.
0 Replies
 
 

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