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Atheism speak your mind about religion

 
 
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 10:37 am
@reasoning logic,
I looked around and did a little research (not really much at all) but I wasn't able to find anything that was really contradictory with that. It actually makes a whole lot of sense and does fit in with all the historical facts. Very interesting, thanks for the vid!
0 Replies
 
Chights47
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 10:37 am
@Arella Mae,
And you think that you are civil? You may start out as such but just a couple posts in and you become a ranting machine. As far as with your specific example of my "civility" that's an actually fact, you vehemently oppose anything that you disagree with and don't listen to any reason. You always have a comment but rarely have a thought...at least in my experience. You claim that I'm insulting you but all I'm doing is point out the blunt facts of how you represent yourself through your words, if you find insult in that then stop complaining and change if. If you think I'm wrong then why not try to correct me rather, yet again, shutting out everything you that you don't agree with. If you don't fully understand something, then why not ask for clarification rather than making a mockery of yourself and start spouting out what you "think" someone is talking about. An example would be: http://able2know.org/topic/173079-10#post-4640308

As far as with your ignorant (not to be confused with stupid) and accusatory remark concerning Hitler. I, for the third time now, state that it would be from HIS (all caps to provide significance) prospective that he called himself a "Christian". You're ignorance and lack of understanding (or refusal to understand) is only proving my point further.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 11:14 am
@Chights47,
Please don't address me any longer. I tried to bow gracefully out of this because I am not going to do tit for tat with you with insults. There is no call for it. We disagree and that is all there is to it.
Chights47
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 12:02 pm
@Arella Mae,
I apologize for my tactlessness

My goal isn't to insult you, in fact I really don't care to and would rather not. You're pretty much the only contributing person here specifically on the Christian side yet it seems as if your so caught up in what you think and believe that you don't listen to anyone else. I'm basically just trying to convey to you that this is a discussion in attempt to provide understanding, rather than a debate about who's right and wrong.

If you would like to start again (on the right foot this time), then I would like to ask a very basic, non-insulting, and direct question. You said that other people misinterpret the Bible and Christianity. My question is, what is the specific reason as to why you believe your interpretation to be correct. I'm not questioning whether it's correct or not, just asking for clarification as to how your interpretation stands out from those that are wrong.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 12:55 pm
@Chights47,
Please accept my apology in return.

You ask me why do I believe my interpretation to be correct and that is a very valid question for you or anyone else to ask. First, let me say, I cannot and will not claim that everything I believe about my understanding of scripture to be 100% correct. I can only tell you that I have in the past and yes, still do sometimes, will have to admit my understanding of something in scripture was wrong when it is shown to me to be wrong.

I don't believe any person has 100% of the truth of scripture. But, just like in many other things in life, you have to look at the whole picture and not just one thing. Let's take Westboro Baptist for instance. They are a radical extreme to what I know of Christianity. They look at the one time Christ threw people out of the temple as that's how you treat all nonbelievers.

Then there is the other extreme side..........the loving side. The side that has turned God into nothing more than a mealey mouthed butler that gives everyone what they want, especially riches if you have enough faith.

Now, what about those that occasionally tell a lie, etc.? Are they Christian? When we are told by their fruits you will know them to me that means when you look at their life, how they live day to day, on the whole do they display the fruit of the spirit or not? If someone is constantly attacking someone else, calling them names, gossiping, etc., then it's a pretty good indication they might not be a Christian according to scripture because a real Christian will not want to do things that are wrong in God's eyes.

Paul Washer is my favorite preacher. He explains it so much better than I ever could but he says true Christians are teachable, repentant, gentle, and all the other things scripture says they are and we have to use common sense when making determinations. Scripture tells us what fruit the Christian will bear.....how they are in life.

I don't know if that really answers your question or if it's rambling (I hope it's not rambling) but if you want to have me focus in on anything more specific, just ask and I will do my best.

Thanx for apologizing and I hope you accept my apology and we can now have an indepth discussion without offending each other. I give you my word to do everything I can to maintain my end of the discussion.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 01:24 pm
@Arella Mae,
Wow what a nice person you can be!
I will be honest when I heard his comment about being closed minded I thought to myself that this could go the wrong way but I do have to say that you are being open minded about it. I do think that we are all closed minded to a degree I think that this is because we are all confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Chights47
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:04 pm
@Arella Mae,
Thank you for your apology but the fault lies mostly with myself, hopefully we can both learn from this. I know that I can sometimes be a little tactless in forums although I try not to be.

As far as with the rest of your post, I do agree with it for the most part, but I feel that there are some corrections based on my own experiences. I believe that there is a different representation between a Christian and heaven, and a Christian on earth. A Christian and heaven is only based on your faith in Him, while the Christian and earth is based on the "fruits". So it's basically the Christians connection with God verse their connection with humanity. To explain further, all He wants from Christians for himself is their faith in him. What He want's from Christians for the world, are essentially good deeds (such as with the example of Jesus) as you have stated.

Although I don't believe in Christianity myself, I do think that the virtues and values of Jesus are something that people should try to imitate (but not necessarily the lifestyle). From my studies, he seemed to be someone who believed in understanding, acceptance, and peace, all of which I agree with wholeheartedly.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:16 pm
@reasoning logic,
It actually did go the wrong way but I think we're back on track now. Confirmation bias doesn't really have a factor, and at times, can even be a good thing so long as you also keep an open mind. The reason that it can be a good thing is because it strengthens your side so that there's more you can contribute. The problem is when there's too much and you get "comfortable" with all of this knowledge that is stacked around you. It's like a giant castle and you don't want anyone to do anything to it for fear of having it all crumble around you. I, however, like to think of it more like a nice renovation.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:22 pm
@Chights47,
Quote:
Confirmation bias doesn't really have a factor, and at times, can even be a good thing so long as you also keep an open mind.


I do not understand!


Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:30 pm
@reasoning logic,
No one really knows if their information is true or not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9x_oa--KAc
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:36 pm
@Chights47,
Nice video I seen that one as well!

Are there some beliefs that are more correct than others? I am not looking for absolute truth, " just truth that maps on to reality better than which I already hold!
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:39 pm
@Chights47,
I think I understand what you are saying but let me say this. A Christian will tell you the only reason we do those good things, have good fruit, is because of Christ. Seems like we have a pretty like minded understanding for the most part. I'm glad we got through the rough spot. Smile
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 02:47 pm
@reasoning logic,
I found Thucydides to be interesting, if I am not mistaking he lived during the time of Socrates.

Before psychological research on confirmation bias, the phenomenon had been observed anecdotally by writers, including the Greek historian Thucydides (c. 460 BC – c. 395 BC), He is also dubbed the father of "scientific history", because of his strict standards of evidence-gathering and analysis in terms of cause and effect without reference to intervention by the gods, as outlined in his introduction to his work.[1]

He has also been called the father of the school of political realism, which views the relations between nations as based on might rather than right.[2] His text is still studied at advanced military colleges worldwide, and the Melian dialogue remains a seminal work of international relations theory.

More generally, Thucydides showed an interest in developing an understanding of human nature to explain behaviour in such crises as plague, massacres, as in that of the Melians, and civil war.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 03:18 pm
@reasoning logic,
Is the belief that Superman can fly really fast around the world spinning it backwards to reverse time as correct as the belief that our feet will stay on the ground rather than us floating off in the sky?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 03:24 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
A Christian will tell you the only reason we do those good things, have good fruit, is because of Christ


I can see some truth to this because after you took his teachings more seriously you were able to see some of your own errors.

Not trying to take away from Jesus but I wonder if it is possible for someone else to accomplish the same thing with a different belief other than Jesus!

Is it possible that you found it to be more productive for you, your kids and society to behave in the most ethical way possible?

I do not know if this is empirical but I have heard, "that all of the money spent in WW 2 could have built a new home for everyone on earth!

I wonder what would happen if instead of dropping bombs on our enemies we instead asked them what could we do to show you that we care!

If we went from an industrial military complex to a humanity complex, "trying to help others out, would we end up with more people on our side?

When we get to heaven will we have boarders for Mexicans and so forth or will we just all come and go respecting each other and working with each other in one accord?
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 03:27 pm
@Chights47,
Chights47 wrote:

Is the belief that Superman can fly really fast around the world spinning it backwards to reverse time as correct as the belief that our feet will stay on the ground rather than us floating off in the sky?
That would depend on how fast he was spinning it to reverse time because once you reach a certain speed all hell will break loose!
0 Replies
 
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 05:10 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
I found Thucydides to be interesting, if I am not mistaking he lived during the time of Socrates.

Before psychological research on confirmation bias, the phenomenon had been observed anecdotally by writers, including the Greek historian Thucydides (c. 460 BC – c. 395 BC), He is also dubbed the father of "scientific history", because of his strict standards of evidence-gathering and analysis in terms of cause and effect without reference to intervention by the gods, as outlined in his introduction to his work.[1]

He has also been called the father of the school of political realism, which views the relations between nations as based on might rather than right.[2] His text is still studied at advanced military colleges worldwide, and the Melian dialogue remains a seminal work of international relations theory.

More generally, Thucydides showed an interest in developing an understanding of human nature to explain behaviour in such crises as plague, massacres, as in that of the Melians, and civil war.

Is this copy and pasted from wikipedia? Wink I can see how he can be very interesting and was a very important thinker but all his stuff seems a little more driven towards political stuff in which I'm not very interested in.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 06:24 pm
@Chights47,
Yes this is a copy and paste!

I am not interested in his political views neither what led me to him was philosophy and psychology!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2011 06:11 pm
@Chights47,
Does this add or subtract from your understanding of reality?


Believe Nothing (but understand as much as you can)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S8AKHhNehU&feature=channel_video_title
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2011 09:13 pm
@reasoning logic,
There really is no adding or subtracting from reality, it's just a matter of how much our perspective of it shifts.

6:17-7:03 is just ridiculous garbage, him even being able to come up with that dumbass thought proves it. The basic undeniable thought of "I think, therefore I am" already contradicts that rubbish. The "separation" that he refers to at 6:44 is called existance and the "oneness" is nothing/death.

As far as the rest of it, it's just a passive attack on religion. Based on the information on the affiliate sites, the views behind this video are about ridding the world religion and "educating" people to what they believe. They do present some good idea's and philosophies, but I think the motive behind them is wrong.
 

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