Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

@firefly,

Quote:

In the case of DSK, the force, as described in the police criminal complaint against him, which was presented in court, was physical.

So we back in this case to a 62 years old man who looks 82 able to force oral sex on a 30 something woman against her will by physical force.

That going to be an interesting sell.

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@BillRM,

Why do you keep going on about how old YOU think he looks? it's on the far side of irrelevant, unless you find a spot on the jury.

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@firefly,

Quote:

a threat, express or implied, which places a person in fear of
immediate death or physical injury to himself, herself or another
person, or in fear that he, she or another person will immediately be
kidnapped.

Criminalizing the alleged victim claiming to be in fear is a bad bad idea. A citizen should only be a criminal based up what they do, not by the emotions reported by other citizens. It is very easy to claim that what DSK offered as a desire for sex was received as a threat, and to then claim that Ophelia was in fear of injury, but that is all based upon Ophelia not DSK. As I have said her victim training may well mean that her responses to DSK are not normal, are not his fault, and so he should not be made a criminal based upon her emotions. Sadly, the state of the American "justice' system is such that he could be.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Oral sex in NYS law is defined as any contact between the penis and mouth. So, all he would have to do is force her head down so her mouth touched his penis.

That's not a hard sell.

The man isn't exactly decrepit. Laughing

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@BillRM,

Quote:

That going to be an interesting sell.

the law no longer demands that the alleged victim resist to the best of their ability, but a jury might well be inclined to let DSK go because she appears to have made so little effort to resist. I would want some yelling, at minimum. Being hysterical after the fact does not cut it for me.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

A citizen should only be a criminal based up what they do, not by the emotions reported by other citizens. It is very easy to claim that what DSK offered as a desire for sex was received as a threat, and to then claim that Ophelia was in fear of injury, but that is all based upon Ophelia not DSK.

You seem to be unable to comprehend how NYS defines "threat"--they refer to significant and specific types of threats--fear for one's life (As in, "I'll kill you if you don't...") or fear of serious injury (As in,"I'll smash your face in.."). A victim can repeat the attacker's exact words, or describe the menacing behaviors that would constitute threat, and it would have to meet the level of threat described in the statute.

Quote:

As I have said her victim training may well mean that her responses to DSK are not normal, are not his fault, and so he should not be made a criminal based upon her emotions.

What is the BS about her "victim training"? What "victim training"? People know when they are being threatened. And her report/description would have to agree with what NYS considers "threat".

Besides, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the forcible compulsion in the DSK case is physical force, and not threat. That was very clear in the criminal complaint.

Quote:

the law no longer demands that the alleged victim resist to the best of their ability

If he is accused of doing something "by forcible compulsion" using physical force, her ability to resist is affected by the force he is using. Screaming, and things of that nature, were never required. Some people freeze when frightened and might not scream. Men, when sexually assaulted by another man, might not scream. You can't stick in your own arbitrary definitions of resistance--or even require resistance. The 85 year old woman who was sexually assaulted in Manhattan a few days ago didn't significantly resist either. People react to these situations differently.

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@firefly,

Quote:

When we are talking about criminal behavior, and criminal laws, as we are with the DSK case, my definitions of these terms, and your definitions of these terms do not matter.

You really do not understand that there's a serious economic impact relating to these matters and by obvious extension a military one and a medical one. You're in a little box of your own devising. In actual fact it is a massive impact. The outcome will determine the power structure of the world.

Has the androgeny you are working towards got a future? Is your position mal-adaptive from a Darwinian point of view? Was DKS taking the piss in that photograph you all sniggered at a few pages ago. I bet you never even thought of considering that. And he's a French intellectual. You saw in it what you wanted to see. There is such a thing as esoteric irony you know. Irony doesn't begin and end where you think it does.

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@ehBeth,

I think Beth that Bill is trying to point out that DSK is past it. That the idea of him getting it on in his state and after years and years of shagging ambitious bints seeking to parley the you know what for money is ridiculous.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Oral sex in NYS law is defined as any contact between the penis and mouth. So, all he would have to do is force her head down so her mouth touched his penis.

That's not a hard sell.

Is it beyond a doubt without video evidence. I wouldn't like to put my legal reputation on the line based on that being an easy sell to a sensible jury.

Should all men staying in New York hotels insist on video surveillance in their rooms? I have no plans to visit NY but if I had I would insist on that at the very least.

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"Creepy Old Men". Just noticed the tag for this thread. Well done, whoever you are!

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@spendius,

Footballers are notorious for their immaturity . Drugs, orgies, rapes...their list of offences grows with every season . They do it in front of a very large audience . They have someone rush over and massage them if they feel a little off... give me a platoon of real soldiers and I would show footballers how to be men, not macho poster boys .

John Wayne was an actor, Spendi . He never dodged real bullets . I never once saw him **** his pants (figuratively speaking) out of fear .

1 Reply

@Irishk,

I think neorotic women obsessed with talking about sex is closer to the truth of not just this thread.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Men violate more laws, of all types, than women do,

That is simply not true . When men behave badly, they bash bully and bluff . When women behave badly, they lie cheat and steal . This is based on what works for your size . The smaller you are, the more you are likely to lie cheat and steal . The bigger you are, the more likely you are to bash bully and bluff . Note I said likely, not must....

Quote:

but the laws punish criminal behavior regardless of which gender commits the criminal act

Not true . Women who lie cheat and steal get far lesser punishments then men who lie cheat and steal . Women who bash bully and bluff get far greater punishments then men who do .

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

Why do you keep going on about how old YOU think he looks? it's on the far side of irrelevant, unless you find a spot on the jury.

So it does not matter if he look able to do what he is charge with doing?

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@spendius,

Quote:

I think neorotic women obsessed with talking about sex is closer to the truth of not just this thread

They are obsessed with their victim story. Trouble is that for them to be the victims that they need to be men must be assholes, by definition, our actions are irrelevant.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Oral sex in NYS law is defined as any contact between the penis and mouth. So, all he would have to do is force her head down so her mouth touched his penis.

That's not a hard sell.

And he came by just bushing her lips?

That sound more like a 13 years old male not a 62 years old male.

Assuming that the reports of his DNA being on her is true.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

all he would have to do is force her head down so her mouth touched his penis.

I am a lot younger than him and I gotta say it takes more than that before I leave DNA samples .

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

And he came by just bushing her lips?

That sound more like a 13 years old male not a 62 years old male.

you're not representative of all old men

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

So you think that an older man would come just having a woman bush his penis with her lips?

Good luck on selling that to a jury.

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@Ionus,

Well Io--that's alright then. I thought you were saying that fake machismo was confined to France and Italy. I once spent a week with a company of the French Foreign Legion. We were facilitating their jumping off.

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Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

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