Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

@firefly,

Quote:

Come on, BillRM, if you are going to set someone up with a false allegation, for purposes of getting money out of them, you would logically accuse them of a more serious sexual assault--not just kissing you and rubbing against you, which really cannot be proved, and charges which a D.A. might not even want to take to trial. People do not fork over substantial settlements in civil suits for unjustified or questionable damages--civil juries have to be convinced about the emotional damages, and the man is represented by an attorney who will challenge them.

If you could not talk a man into having sex with you there is no DNA/sperms so the false charges you could come up have limits.

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@engineer,

I am assuming that what happened here is how DSK normally treats women, that the alleged victims perceptions are off because she is a trained victim. In that case what happened here is that DSK expected sex, had octopus hands, that ophelia complied and never actually said no even though that was in her head, and that DSK never physically forced her to do anything. I do not believe that the state has the right to criminalize what I understand to be DSKs normal behavior. T5his does not change if the woman is my wife....if she does not indicate no then there is no crime, I do not agree with the opinion of most feminists that there must be a yes, and I certainly do not agree with those whack jobs who say that there must be an enthusiastic yes with no pressure felt by the woman from any source to say yes or else the yes is not valid.

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@hawkeye10,

OK, but if she did say no and attempted to escape and he used force to get compliance, then that is criminal, right?

1 Reply

@Irishk,

Quote:

And you should forward your theory that DSK's actions, in part, are nothing more than a product of his environment to his defense dream team. I'd love to see them argue that aspect.

So would I but they won't. The other side daren't let them. "Objection your Honour. This line of questioning is irrelevant to the... (stick in ff's posts here)."

"Sustained."

But I have not yet accepted what DSK's actions were. You seem to have. I don't know on what basis.

Perhaps it is that your Lady Love might read your posts. The prosecuting counsel have ladyloves, I suppose the Judge also, wives and daughters and moms and grandmoms, possibly great grandmoms, and sisters and nieces and aunties and know the wives of all the colleages at the lawyer's barbecue, and all of them listening carefully to every word they say.

I realise that defence counsel have these accoutrements to their daily lives also but, their business being more market oriented than that of prosecuting counsel, they tend to be more predatory and even gruffer. Maybe one of their sympathisers will tell them about this thread and then they can consider it.

The battle of the sexes is unto death in case you don't know. Androgeny is death. Vive la difference" and let the best man win. I'm not waving the white flag mate.

The alleged incident intrinsically is nothing. It is the use it can be put to that is of significance. The woodwork has not been entirely vacated yet but it is enough to see the battle lines. Who is on which side?

When Homer tied Ulysses to the mast and stopped up the ears of his crew he was having an old man's jest about the power of the enchantment of the Sirens on his own great hero. Which implies he had himself been brought low by them in his younger days. And they were only wailing in the distance. The island of the Sirens was a well known nautical hazard in those days.

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@izzythepush,

Oh--I don't know about that izzy. Not many books have an opening line as good as that. Burgess has a good one. Kigsley Amis buried his key line somewhere near the middle. I found one dead centre.

Nobody who opens a book as Ms Austen did that one can possibly write a shitty book and I call her world-wide fame as my witnesss. As I do with the Bible.

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@spendius,

The battle of the sexes is unto death in case you don't know.

I didn't know

The alleged incident intrinsically is nothing.

The international furor proves otherwise.

Which implies he had himself been brought low by them in his younger days

DSK as Homer. Yes! He didn't pay attention to the warnings he received concerning the sirens.

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@panzade,

You are inferring that the furor is over DSKs alleged treatment of the maid, but the truth is that is is over a lot of things....the possibility that DSK was set up, the behavior of the state of New York, the difference in cultural values between the US and France, the state of US legal theory, what some believe is a maid taking advantage of the opportunity for a payday, and of course this is connected to the ongoing gender wars.

1 Reply

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

OK, but if she did say no and attempted to escape and he used force to get compliance, then that is criminal, right?

it all depends upon what the definition of force is. The feminist definition, which has been largly accepted by those who write and carry out the laws, is that force is when a woman will tell the jury " I did not think that I could say no"....which is a bullshit anti male definition.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

The alleged incident intrinsically is nothing. It is the use it can be put to that is of significance.

Now you're just sounding hysterical. If the prosecution fails to prove its case, DSK will walk and return to France where he'll be elected president in an unprecedented landslide.

That's assuming the case goes to trial and I doubt it will, as I've said from very early on.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

But that is not what is alleged here. This case is not about her complying unwillingly to a request for sex.

Quote:

According to the account from the maid, who had been employed at the Sofitel for three years, the IMF chief grabbed her, pulled her into the bedroom and onto the bed and then locked the door, the paper said.

She managed to fight him off, but he dragged her down the hallway to the bathroom, where he sexually assaulted her a second time, according to The Times report.

MSNBC television said that in the bathroom, Strauss-Kahn forced the maid to perform oral sex on him and tried to remove her underwear.

If her allegation is true, that violence (not the threat of violence or her belief that he would get violent) was used to force her to perform a sex act, shouldn't that be illegal?

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@engineer,

Quote:

If her allegation is true, that violence (not the threat of violence or her belief that he would get violent) was used to force her to perform a sex act, shouldn't that be illegal?

If her allegation that a man 30 years older then her and in bad shape could force oral sex on her without being harm is true it a damn miracle.

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@engineer,

We don't know what she said, we only know what the state says that she said. Very often hysterical women report words that never happened outside of their heads. My theory based upon what I know of these two people is that Ophelia registered concern for her job but never refusal of sexual advance. I also don't believe that DSK forced her to perform, that he mearly expected her to. We will have to wait to see if DSKs version fits my theory.

This is the kind of case were we can see clearly how profoundly the feminists are trying to change the playing field by changing the standard from what we can prove the guy did to how the woman claimes in court that she felt. Ophelia would have no trouble convincing 12 people that her head wanted "no", but proving that DSK knew where her head was and violated it is another matter.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

My theory based upon what I know of these two people...

Or, in other words, your theory is based on nothing.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

Or, in other words, your theory is based on nothing.

And the other theories is base on what?

That a man 30 years older then the woman and from the pictures and videos looking 50 years older could force the woman to give him oral sex without a used of a weapon as none had been claim.

How did he do that my friend?????????

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@BillRM,

The theory that she was raped is based upon her acting the way we would expect her to if raped, and that dna confirms that sex happened...in the first case prejudice and in the second fancy science that proves nothing about force or consent but we will pretend that it does.

AKA little and nothing.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Laws which do not conform to humanity are by definition unjust.

I can't subscribe to that hawk. It's far too sweeping. Too idealistic. Too ambiguous. It can have as many meanings as there are people to give it a meaning. Humanity is fundamentally anarchic. Before Christianity the world must have looked red from the moon so much gore was there. The other side of the Garden of Eden was utterly ghastly. That some gore had to be spread to stop it is just. And it is working. Humanity showed no signs of stopping it in the hundreds of thousands of years we have some knowledge of. It became almost a frenzy with the Aztecs. And that's not so long ago. They play football now. That's just. Millions of them have flush bogs and a clinic.

We are focussed on an alleged victim and a real victim. We have seen DSK in the pillory. We did not see the hotel room. That is not on our radar.

I don't think it is in tune with human nature to use force on a female. Or tricks. I'm okay if he waved his dick about and said "Do you fancy a ride around the heavens on this Babe?" in his best French. Not that it makes sense when he's a plane ride away from Paree. (Sheesh!! I can't say Gay Paree anymore thanks to some PC nutters.)

Force makes a mockery of the Song of Solomon and Omar and many a poet.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

You're ignoring me. Remember?

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@spendius,

then you are an idiot spendius, human relationship is based upon both conflictand cooperation, on both pushing and pulling. Force is ALWAYS in the relationship, it is only the degree that is in question, the degree that is allowed before sanctions are applied by the collective and those individuals in our life.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

The theory that she was raped sexually assaulted is based upon her acting the way we would expect her to if raped sexually assaulted

Fixed that for you.

hawkeye10 wrote:

and that dna confirms that sex happened...

... and the complainant's testimony and the testimony of other witnesses and whatever physical evidence the police could find and all that other stuff that was presented to the grand jury that actually indicted DSK.

hawkeye10 wrote:

in the first case prejudice and in the second fancy science that proves nothing about force or consent but we will pretend that it does.

I doubt that anyone would argue that DNA evidence provides any insights into an alleged victim's state of mind, but then you were just setting that up as a strawman so I'm sure you don't care if it's true or not.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

The theory that she was raped is based upon her acting the way we would expect her to if raped, and that dna confirms that sex happened...in the first case prejudice and in the second fancy science that proves nothing about force or consent but we will pretend that it does.

AKA little and nothing.

My problem is that I was raised around strong women with not one having a victim type mindset.

I do not expect women therefore to act as helpless victims when there is no reason or need for them to do so.

From the view point of the likely balance of physical strengths between a 30 years old woman who earn her living by hard work and a 62 years old international banker who look like he never been to a gym in his life, would clearly be with her not him.

I am his age however I do go to the gym and somehow still I can not see myself being able to force a 30 something maid to give oral sex against her resistant without taking a lot of damage myself doing so even leaving out her ability then to bit it off.

Whatever happen in that hotel physical force seem unlikely to had been a means of raping the lady.

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Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

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