9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye just what sort of political leanings do you think I have?
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:30 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
If you don't prosecute rich and powerful men you can lead to a culture of impunity.


So you must prosecute men at the word of women no matter if the evidences or the logic of the story does not support there being a crime otherwise men will think they can get away with rape?

There sadly seem to be a culture that if it a male of any age and any social standing in being charge with a sexual crime that he must be assume at once to be guilty as women do not lied about this subject.

A fairly large percent of them do however do indeed lied for many reasons.

One other note when a woman “victim” have high social standing and the accuses attacker a far lower one I had yet to hear anyone challenge it as being related to how must credit we should give to her claimed of being attack but when the man had a far higher social standing and the “victim” a far lower one we should disregard that factor.

Next you can not tell me those two boys was not harm by being charge in an adult court with such a crime for no good reason and the whole UK justice system should hang it head in shame over this matter in my opinion.

What kind of interviewing did the police do that they did not find out that the story that the little girl gave her mother had been motive to avoid punishment?

But that is one of my main complained with the women here that who can wave their hands over harm done to men or even ten years olds boys like you had just done as being no big deal at the same time crying over the harm done to women.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:30 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Hawkeye just what sort of political leanings do you think I have?
I have not seen you around enough to know where you are on the Left/Right scale. I do know that your faith in punitive measures as a deterrent to unwanted passion is highly fanciful. A do know that you seem to believe that the state has the right to use broad measures of coercion in the attempt to gain the behavior out of the citizens that it wants to see. I dont see you as a supporter of the people nor of basic human rights.
izzythepush
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
you're the one who seems to be of the opinion that men in power should be able to act with some sort of impunity. I believe in the rule of law. I don't see how my point about people being deterred fom crime by the thought of being caught as opposed to tough sentencing can be seen as a way to coerce the general population. From your opposition to that idea can I assume you're in favour of harsh sentencing. I am a strong supporter of human rights, which I think should be universal. It tends to be the weak and poor who are more in need of the protection of the Human Rights Act than the rich and powerful.

You appear to support the rights of the rich and powerful above those of us lesser mortals. I'm a socialist, but I'm afraid you sound like a bit of a fascist.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:53 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You appear to support the rights of the rich and powerful above those of us lesser mortals
Which is nonsense because I have repeatedly said that it is not about them, it is about us. Most of the greats are twisted in some way, if we want to see and benefit from what they can produce for us then we need to show some restraint in criminalizing their proclivities.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
An interesting allegation.
Quote:
The deputy of Paris, who posted a note on his blog Sunday strongly criticized the left, says Dominique Strauss-Kahn has already attacked in the past other maids in the same New York hotel.
By posting a note on his blog Sunday, where he describes Dominique Strauss-Kahn of "sex offender" who needs "to heal," the deputy of Paris has angered many left-wing politicians, including Pierre Moscovici, and Internet users, who blame excessive violence in words.
Contacted by L'Express on Monday morning, Bernard Debre keeps his words and now accuse Dominique Strauss-Kahn to have ever engaged in sexual assaults in the same hotel in New York. They would, he said, were ignored by management, against the wishes of employees.
"We must abandon the hypocrisy. This is not the first time that DSK was engaged in this type of behavior at the Sofitel. Here he continued to descend. It happened several times and for several years. Everyone knew the hotel, "said Bernard Debre, currently traveling in China.
"DSK? The Chinese marrent"

"The employees were about to revolt, he adds. Management knew, but until then dared to say anything. It has stifled all other cases. Other maids before Ophelia - a charming woman of 32 who worked very well - had been assaulted. It must stop playing virgins. You think the cops in New York reportedly arrested on the plane if they had no precise information ?

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/debre-sur-dsk-l-hotel-a-etouffe-d-autres-affaires_993154.html

Translated by Google


This I would believe, that this hotel operated as his bordello, however, in this case GSK would have thought that he was operating under consent, that it was not rape.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
punitive measures as a deterrent to unwanted passion

The perp in question had about a half dozen criminal charges filed against him, including assault and unlawful imprisonment. 'Unwanted passion' wasn't mentioned, I don't believe.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 06:58 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Rape has a far lower conviction rate than other crimes. You mentioned earlier that his conviction will not deter any would be rapists, which is true


Let rephrased your statement charges of rape have a lower conviction rate then others alleged crimes.

The problem here is that in dating rape charges we end up many times with a she said he said situation and at least in the US you are suppose to need to be found guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

So other then changing the situation so that men are assume guilty unless he can prove he is innocent a lower conviction rate compare to other crimes is just the nature of the beast.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:00 pm
@Irishk,
Quote:
The perp in question had about a half dozen criminal charges filed against him, including assault and unlawful imprisonment.
Yes, American DA's are very good at charge shopping, and have no moral aversion to doing so. They are well known to level charges with no interest in being able to prove them as their only interest is in getting a better deal. Very few cases go to trial in the American system, it is mostly a "lets make a deal" system.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Very few cases go to trial in the American system, it is mostly a "lets make a deal" system.


Less then ten percents go to trial if memory serve me correctly.

That is one of the reasons the state wish not to allow bail in this case in order to place pressure on him to plea out.

Guilt and innocent have only a poor connection to outcomes.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:06 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Overall, for all areas of the law, federal civil trials have declined 60 percent since the mid-1980s. In 2002, less than 2 percent of those cases ended in a trial – down from 12 percent in 1962 and 20 percent in the 1920s. Less than 5 percent of criminal cases go to trial; most result in plea bargains.
http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2009/03/burnstrial.html
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:15 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

So you must prosecute men at the word of women no matter if the evidences or the logic of the story does not support there being a crime otherwise men will think they can get away with rape?

But in this case, thus far, the evidence appears to support the woman's story.
And yes, that is sufficient reason to charge him, and continue to gather evidence, and bring the matter to trial.

A D.A. would have to be self-destructive, downright incompetent, or extremely corrupt, to prosecute anyone, for any crime, "no matter if the evidences or the logic of the story does not support there being a crime". Why would a D.A. choose to try a case if evidence or logic does not support the commission of a crime? And do you think all judges and defense attorneys are semi-comatose, and would, therefore, just allow things like that to happen with impunity?

I think it is safe to assume that Strauss-Kahn's very high priced legal team will make sure that his legal rights are safeguarded and that there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a trial. This case will not hinge only on the words of the woman who has alleged she was attacked.

Would you feel any differently about this case if Strauss-Kahn was gay or bisexual and he was accused of attacking a male hotel bellboy who had delivered food to his suite?

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:33 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Would you feel any differently about this case if Strauss-Kahn was gay or bisexual and he was accused of attacking a male hotel bellboy who had delivered food to his suite?


No why should I?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:35 pm
@firefly,
Yes they are so sure that they had a good case that they are trying to keep him lock up in a cell to pressure him to plea out.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:47 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Yes sure they are so sure that they had a good case that they are trying to keep him lock up in a cell to pressure him to plea out.

It is a state supported Dominance/Submission exercise, often going after individuals who have chosen to do the same thing in their intimate relationships. The use of power over the individual is fine with the state, so long as it is them and those whom they approve of who have the power.
Quote:
Moreover, it is easy to overstate the extent to which ple a
bargaining really is bargaining. 59 As noted previously, the practice
often resembles shopping in a supermarke t
6
° -with one important exception: the dissatisfied defendant is not free to move onto a different store in search of lower prices. Even when plea bargaining takes on a more adversarial character , there tends to be massive power imbalances between prosecutors and defendants . In l ight of
such cons ide r a t ions a s t r ans a c t ion costs and judi c i a l ly impos ed t r i a l
pena l t i e s , few de f endant s a r e wi l l ing to go to tria1.
61
Fur the rmor e ,
the prol i f e r a t ion of s ent enc ing guide l ine s and manda tory minimum
s ent enc e s ove r the pa s t qua r t e r - c entury ha s given pros e cutor s even
gr e a t e r l eve r age over de f endant s than they have t r adi t iona l ly
enjoyed; when pros e cutor i a l l eni enc e is the only r e l i abl e me ans to
avoid a dr a coni an s ent enc e , the pros e cutor c an effectively di c t a t e
the t e rms of the "deal.,,62 Ba rga ining dynami c s va ry cons ide r ably
cour t room, a s i s the norm for indigent de f endant s in some
jur i sdi c t ions .
70
In suppor t of thi s view, one might r e c a l l Ca spe r ' s
finding of a s igni f i c ant cor r e l a t ion be twe en de f endant pe r c ept ions
of proc edur a l jus t i c e and the amount of t ime s imply spent t a lking
wi th a l awye r .
pg 427
http://law.marquette.edu/s3/site/images/faculty/GeorgiaLR.pdf
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:47 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
A D.A. would have to be self-destructive, downright incompetent, or extremely corrupt, to prosecute anyone, for any crime, "no matter if the evidences or the logic of the story does not support there being a crime". Why would a D.A. choose to try a case if evidence or logic does not support the commission of a crime?


See the Duke players case to answer all your above questions.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Yes, American DA's are very good at charge shopping, and have no moral aversion to doing so. They are well known to level charges with no interest in being able to prove them as their only interest is in getting a better deal.

Did you read the actual criminal complaint against Strauss-Kahn? Each charge was backed up with a description of the behavior he allegedly engaged in. And they plan to try to prove all of them.

Our system may be economically unfair--those with court appointed attorneys, who often cannot afford to hire expensive expert witnesses, or incur whatever other costs are necessary to aggressively fight the prosecution's case, may be pressured into a plea deal rather than risk a trial which might result in a significantly longer sentence--and I don't think most people would argue that. Our health care is unfair too--the wealthy can afford better doctors, unlimited second opinions, and whatever diagnostic tests and treatments are required.

But people with Strauss-Kahn's resources, and high priced aggressive defense teams, do not get easily pressured into plea bargains. If he chooses a plea deal, it will be because that's his best option and the case against him is very strong. But his defense team is going to fight tooth and nail every step of the way, and attack every scrap of evidence, and every witness in the state's case, and they will be armed with the money to do it.

I think the judge had legitimate concerns that Strauss-Kahn might be a flight risk. No one wants a repeat of the Polanski situation. The judge might reconsider house arrest at a future hearing, but, meanwhile, Strauss-Kahn is sitting in a cell on Rikers Island, along with many other people likewise accused of first degree felonies. Should we let them all go home with an ankle bracelet?
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:54 pm
@firefly,
Here are the charges

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/panzade/Clipboard01.jpg
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 07:59 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But people with Strauss-Kahn's resources, and high priced aggressive defense teams, do not get easily pressured into plea bargains. If he chooses a plea deal, it will be because that's his best option and the case against him is very strong. But his defense team is going to fight tooth and nail every step of the way, and attack every scrap of evidence, and every witness in the state's case, and they will be armed with the money to do it.


If they can keep him lock in a cell then they have one hell of a tool to pressure him as we both know.

And the theory is that you do not punish a man before he is found guilty of some crime what a laugh that is.

Our so call justice system is not looking good to the rest of the world at the moment.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2011 08:04 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Our so call justice system is not looking good to the rest of the world at the moment.
I have faith that the American people will one day figure out that our "justice" system is rotten to the core. I hope that your exclusion of Americans does not mean that you have given up on us.
0 Replies
 
 

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